Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

[Jane Fonda]

Should have used the DH for Sano instead of for the pitcher's spot.

[Beauner]

Sano stays on that ball (97mph) and murders it over the right field fence. Almost into the fountains.

[Greyeagle]

Sano stays on that ball (97mph) and murders it over the right field fence. Almost into the fountains.

Damn him.

[Beauner]

Should have used the DH for Sano instead of for the pitcher's spot.

Except you can't.

[Beauner]

Sano should try some analytics like swinging with a batting donut so he can catch up to fastballs. Three strikeouts and counting tonight. 27 in his last 55 at-bats.

Didn't seem to have a problem catching up to that 97mph fastball off the plate

[Maize]

You're welcome.

[Beauner]

I hate the contact play. So much

[Greyeagle]

I hate the contact play. So much

The bunt of base running?

AGAIN! Christ...

[Beauner]

The only times I've ever seen it work for the Twins is with Buxton on 3.

[Beauner]

Hard to break out of slumps when umpires are calling balls at your shoelaces a strike.

[The Rube]

If you can't adjust to a strike zone, that's on you. As long as the ump is consistent.

[Viking]

Should have used the DH for Sano instead of for the pitcher's spot.

Except you can't.

Rules are for suckers!

[Viking]

Except you should not try to adjust to a strike zone at your shoelaces. Even if the ump is calling that in a particular game. The ump will be gone before Sano in that case. Even with the union b-u-l-l-s-h-i-t.

[Beauner]

If you can't adjust to a strike zone, that's on you. As long as the ump is consistent.

I agree to an extent. That wasn't a consistent call. Hell he didn't even give Perez balls that were "in the K-zone" on the broadcast.

And you should never have to adjust to a ball that barely crosses above your shoes.

[The Rube]

Except you should not try to adjust to a strike zone at your shoelaces. Even if the ump is calling that in a particular game. The ump will be gone before Sano in that case. Even with the union b-u-l-l-s-h-i-t.

While I agree "letters to knees," in the moment, you are a pro. You should be able to adjust.

[Karlsson]

If you can't adjust to a strike zone, that's on you. As long as the ump is consistent.

No. You do not train your brain to think pitches at your ankles are something to swing at. Take your lumps, hope he gets fired before you have too many games with him behind the plate again.

[The Rube]

If you can't adjust to a strike zone, that's on you. As long as the ump is consistent.

No. You do not train your brain to think pitches at your ankles are something to swing at. Take your lumps, hope he gets fired before you have tol many games with him behind the plate again.

How far do you go? This ump calls outside strikes, but not inside.
He calls low, but not high.

Adjust within the specific game, and long term, the league will handle it. Not ideal, but necessary.

[Beauner]

If you can't adjust to a strike zone, that's on you. As long as the ump is consistent.

No. You do not train your brain to think pitches at your ankles are something to swing at. Take your lumps, hope he gets fired before you have tol many games with him behind the plate again.

How far do you go? This ump calls outside strikes, but not inside.
He calls low, but not high.

Adjust within the specific game, and long term, the league will handle it. Not ideal, but necessary.

Again, HUGE difference between a ball off the plate and a ball that the catcher is digging out of the dirt. Those are not, and never should be, pitches that bitters have to worry about being called strikes.

[Viking]

Except you should not try to adjust to a strike zone at your shoelaces. Even if the ump is calling that in a particular game. The ump will be gone before Sano in that case. Even with the union b-u-l-l-s-h-i-t.

While I agree "letters to knees," in the moment, you are a pro. You should be able to adjust.

Long term, so no. The umpire is the problem. The union is keeping umpires who have no business working a high school game working in the majors.

[The Rube]

We all know about Angel.

[Viking]

Joe Weat

[Jane Fonda]

Should have used the DH for Sano instead of for the pitcher's spot.

Except you can't.

That should have been obviously posted in jest.

[Jane Fonda]

Except you should not try to adjust to a strike zone at your shoelaces. Even if the ump is calling that in a particular game. The ump will be gone before Sano in that case. Even with the union b-u-l-l-s-h-i-t.

While I agree "letters to knees," in the moment, you are a pro. You should be able to adjust.

Long term, so no. The umpire is the problem. The union is keeping umpires who have no business working a high school game working in the majors.

Agreed.

And it seems like they're getting worse, and more inconsistent on balls and strikes. This year has been awfully inconsistent.

Time to go to the computer. f*** the umps.

[Don Adams Wheel of Justice]

Sano should try some analytics like swinging with a batting donut so he can catch up to fastballs. Three strikeouts and counting tonight. 27 in his last 55 at-bats.

Didn't seem to have a problem catching up to that 97mph fastball off the plate

Even a blind pig can find a cob of corn once in a while.

[Composer]

I hate the contact play. So much

In that situation, it is the obvious thing to do. You start with runners at 2nd and 3rd. If you don't go on contact, the batter will be out at 1st and you still have runners at 2nd and 3rd. If you do the contact play (and it is executed correctly, which it was) you end up with an out and runners at 2nd and third (same thing). EXCEPT, there is the chance that the fielding team will mess up the play and a run will score and you have zero outs. Nothing was lost in the play.

[Beauner]

I hate the contact play. So much

In that situation, it is the obvious thing to do. You start with runners at 2nd and 3rd. If you don't go on contact, the batter will be out at 1st and you still have runners at 2nd and 3rd. If you do the contact play (and it is executed correctly, which it was) you end up with an out and runners at 2nd and third (same thing). EXCEPT, there is the chance that the fielding team will mess up the play and a run will score and you have zero outs. Nothing was lost in the play.

Except when Cruz was running and stopped at 1B.

[Karlsson]

Two games in a row where Berrios gets screwed.

[gopher6]

Twins win 5-3

[Composer]

I hate the contact play. So much

In that situation, it is the obvious thing to do. You start with runners at 2nd and 3rd. If you don't go on contact, the batter will be out at 1st and you still have runners at 2nd and 3rd. If you do the contact play (and it is executed correctly, which it was) you end up with an out and runners at 2nd and third (same thing). EXCEPT, there is the chance that the fielding team will mess up the play and a run will score and you have zero outs. Nothing was lost in the play.

Except when Cruz was running and stopped at 1B.

Yes--That happened the 2nd time. You just globally said you hate the contact play. And you posted after the FIRST time, when it was done correctly.

[Beauner]

Hearing rumors that the Twins are looking at signing Cody Allen.
Gross.

[Beauner]

I hate the contact play. So much

In that situation, it is the obvious thing to do. You start with runners at 2nd and 3rd. If you don't go on contact, the batter will be out at 1st and you still have runners at 2nd and 3rd. If you do the contact play (and it is executed correctly, which it was) you end up with an out and runners at 2nd and third (same thing). EXCEPT, there is the chance that the fielding team will mess up the play and a run will score and you have zero outs. Nothing was lost in the play.

Except when Cruz was running and stopped at 1B.

Yes--That happened the 2nd time. You just globally said you hate the contact play. And you posted after the FIRST time, when it was done correctly.

It's less terrible with runners on 2nd and 3rd but in general I hate it regardless.

[frozen4champs]

Hearing rumors that the Twins are looking at signing Cody Allen.
Gross.

Looks official to a minor league deal

[Beauner]

That ball was hit super far.

[Beauner]

Hearing rumors that the Twins are looking at signing Cody Allen.
Gross.

Looks official to a minor league deal

At least it is a minor league deal. Maybe they'll be able to figure out the adjustments he needs to make to figure out how to not suck now, and do it in AAA.

[Beauner]

Interesting little write-up from Parker Hageman about what the Twins can hope to do with Allen (namely - figure out his release point).







Edit: apparently the second tweet has a video link so it won't embed here but it's worth taking a look at if you're interested in tunneling and the impact it can have.

[Cowgirl]

1) what is fb/cb? Football and the thing truckers use is what my mind comes up with.


2) how can they define a hitters recognition point? Brain implants?!

Someday they’ll reminisce about the days when baseball was just.....baseball.

[Beauner]

1) what is fb/cb? Football and the thing truckers use is what my mind comes up with.


2) how can they define a hitters recognition point? Brain implants?!

Someday they’ll reminisce about the days when baseball was just.....baseball.

FB=fastball CB=curveball
Recognition point is essentially where the batter can make a read on which pitch is being thrown. It is much, much easier to determine which pitch is on the way when they are thrown from such varied release points. You can be a lot more aggressive on a fastball if it's thrown from release point A when you know his curveball is being thrown from release point B. When the pitches are being thrown from the same release point the batter has to look more at the spin of the ball (is it forward spin/backspin/slider spin). This isn't necessarily a "hot new trend" as hitters were always looking for these things even as young as 10-12 years old when pitchers started throwing changeups and eventually curveballs. If you see the pitcher throws a fastball from straight over the top and drops down to 3/4 arm slot on his changeup it's super easy to sit on one or the other before the ball is on the way. Nowadays we just have the technology to pinpoint it for fancy little graphs like that to use in coaching/teaching.

In the pitch overlay gifs in here and the MLB News thread where you see 2-3 pitches that move so drastically from the same spot is what they call "tunneling"--essentially releasing the different pitches from the same spot in your motion and letting the spin do the rest. Over the last couple years (largely due to injury, as Allen has admitted) he changed some things with his mechanics and hasn't been able to get back to tunneling his pitches. That, combined with the velocity drop, has caused him to become pretty terrible.

As for how it is calculated: it's not an exact science but the general consensus is that approximately a quarter to 1/3rd of the way to the plate is the standard "recognition point" for pitches. The longer you can tunnel your pitches, the later that becomes. The later it becomes, the harder it is to hit.

That's why you see guys flailing at pitches low in the dirt or way off the plate and say "Why would he swing at that?! It wasn't even close!" But if it was tunneled the same as a fastball that would catch the zone until it was half way to the plate it would look like a strike. Then it just falls off the table.

[The Rube]

Watch "Fastball" a documentary on the fastball (duh). Pitches like that.....our brain can only function so fast, so we basically have to guess at where the ball is going to be, based on release point and experience. The difference between a 100 mph fastball and a 92 mph fastball is about 4 feet in arrival. Now, add in changeups and curves? Hooboy.

[Cowgirl]

Don’t get me wrong, this stuff is amazing but my brain can’t keep up. I get that if you can have the same release point off a fastball vs breaking or off speed pitch you’ll be more successful. I guess I thought it sounded like there was some sort of technology to actually determine when they thought a player was actually deciding what a pitch was. It makes more sense that it is just a “generalization” for the average batter.

I always appreciate your insight @Beauner ! I’ve always loved baseball but am falling behind as I abhor statistics and math.

I just read a tutorial the other night that detailed different pitches; speed, which way they move....it truly is amazing how much detail there is in pitching and has made watching games more interesting. I can’t imagine being a batter and trying to think at 95mph.

[The Rube]

Don’t get me wrong, this stuff is amazing but my brain can’t keep up. I get that if you can have the same release point off a fastball vs breaking or off speed pitch you’ll be more successful. I guess I thought it sounded like there was some sort of technology to actually determine when they thought a player was actually deciding what a pitch was. It makes more sense that it is just a “generalization” for the average batter.

I always appreciate your insight @Beauner ! I’ve always loved baseball but am falling behind as I abhor statistics and math.

I just read a tutorial the other night that detailed different pitches; speed, which way they move....it truly is amazing how much detail there is in pitching and has made watching games more interesting. I can’t imagine being a batter and trying to think at 95mph.

IIRC, for a 100 mph fastball, you have .396 seconds to decide on where to swing, IF you want to swing. And that's if the pitcher is actually throwing that pitch. That is why pitching coaches stress similar motions for all pitches released, etc. If a pitcher comes at a slightly different angle, that is a tell on what pitch he's throwing, etc. Combining all pitches into one single motion might negatively affect all pitch performances, BUT the wild card of "what pitch is being thrown" negates all of that and then some, if that makes sense.

[The Rube]

Here's the clip I wanted to find:
https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2015/0 ... entary-mlb

[Cowgirl]

I have not yet seen that documentary but would like to.

[The Rube]

I have not yet seen that documentary but would like to.

It's awesome.

Hidden Content...

FTR, Nolan, 108.5 mph.

[Beauner]

Thought this was a pretty good example of previous discussion.
Two pitches that can't end up much farther apart. Look how long they followed the same trajectory.



#hittingishard

[gopher6]

Who are the Twinkies through back uniforms from?

[frozen4champs]

Who are the Twinkies through back uniforms from?

Negro league team from St Paul.

[Cowgirl]

What is on that lady’s head sitting just behind the home plate umpire? I feel bad for the dude behind her. Although finding a different seat does not appear to be a challenge at the game today.

Edit: it’s “dress to the nines” day at the park.

[Karlsson]

Who are the Twinkies through back uniforms from?

Saint Paul Colored Gophers. Early 1900's team.

Edit: Whoops. This was answered already.

[Beauner]

Pretty neat little write-up about Sano (another one) and what may be impacting his contact issues.

Spoiler alert: it has absolutely nothing to do with him not having enough bat speed or having a long swing. It has more to do with the fact that he's still bringing his hands back to the launch position while the ball is already en route to the plate. This also impacts his ability to lay off pitches that aren't in the zone (and is probably a factor in his check-swing tendencies). Not getting his hands to the launch point until the ball is already on the way to the plate means he has to decide to swing earlier. This also aids in him getting beat on elevated fastballs.

[Maize]

. Not getting his hands to the launch point until the ball is already on the way to the plate means he has to decide to swing earlier.

....So basically his swing takes too long. Got it.

[Beauner]

. Not getting his hands to the launch point until the ball is already on the way to the plate means he has to decide to swing earlier.

....So basically his swing takes too long. Got it.

Having a rolling launch point is not the equivalent of having a long swing.

[Maize]

Is the guy that cleans the shitters at Target Field an executive vice president of custodial arts and management or is he still just a janitor?

[Bladepuller]

Custodian of the crappers.

[bearpaw28]

Excellent story by Reusse in the ST today about how the Twins discovered Kepler...with an added dig (thrown Falveys way) GPLers can Hate on Portly Pat all they want for turning on the Gophers ever since his nephew played for Jan Brady 15-16 years ago...but the guy is a talented story teller, regardless...

[Slap Shot]

I began reading him well before any supposed turn and have always thought he was at best passable. Truth be told he has written some great stories about golf and small town baseball for example, yet he also has the uncanny ability to write a story that lacks purpose and even sometimes without an ending. A meandering collection of words with nary a concise message that tailed off at the end. As if he fell asleep only to hit "send" at the deadline. Your opinion of Gopher's fans opinions of him however would fit right in one of his articles.

[Handyman]

Excellent story by Reusse in the ST today about how the Twins discovered Kepler...with an added dig (thrown Falveys way) GPLers can Hate on Portly Pat all they want for turning on the Gophers ever since his nephew played for Jan Brady 15-16 years ago...but the guy is a talented story teller, regardless...

Yeah he isnt. Keep trying though.

Pat sucked long before 15-16 years ago. And he turned on all the local teams long before that as well.

[bearpaw28]

I began reading him well before any supposed turn and have always thought he was at best passable. Truth be told he has written some great stories about golf and small town baseball for example, yet he also has the uncanny ability to write a story that lacks purpose and even sometimes without an ending. A meandering collection of words with nary a concise message that tailed off at the end. As if he fell asleep only to hit "send" at the deadline. Your opinion of Gopher's fans opinions of him however would fit right in one of his articles.

LMAO...he’s a columnist, not a novelist, who only gets so many column inches to write a story. He’s good at telling a story & spinning a yarn, whether town baseball, golf or MLB...contrary to your opinion. Is he a troll at heart... particularly relating to Gopher Hockey...yeah.

[Slap Shot]

I began reading him well before any supposed turn and have always thought he was at best passable. Truth be told he has written some great stories about golf and small town baseball for example, yet he also has the uncanny ability to write a story that lacks purpose and even sometimes without an ending. A meandering collection of words with nary a concise message that tailed off at the end. As if he fell asleep only to hit "send" at the deadline. Your opinion of Gopher's fans opinions of him however would fit right in one of his articles.

LMAO...

Yeah you roll with this. Nothing after that negates my point but perhaps you have more."say your words" in you?

[Greyeagle]

The next Marvel Superhero? La Tortuga!

[Greyeagle]

Cron lucky it was't a POS baserunner. That could have been spike city.

[maroon_and_gold]

Noticed the Twins attendance has gotten better as they start winning. Wouldn’t the same thing happen with gopher hockey?

Not sure which thread this belongs in

[Handyman]

7 runs on 12 hits so far...meh pretenders.

[Greyeagle]

Why does the Rays' pitcher look like an extra from The Rocky Horror Picture Show?

[davescharf]

The next Marvel Superhero? La Tortuga!

Byron Buxton he is not

[Handyman]

Nah cause he is actually playing

[Snowcool08]

Noticed the Twins attendance has gotten better as they start winning. Wouldn’t the same thing happen with gopher hockey?

Not sure which thread this belongs in

Again, they won 6 regular season titles in a row. Something nobody has ever done before, yet attendance went down. It wasn’t winning.

[Handyman]

Yeah but that is a bit of a misnomer. They won regular season titles but kept losing in the playoffs. Sooner or later you have to do more than just win the division.

And it took a while before people stopped going.

[Karlsson]

Noticed the Twins attendance has gotten better as they start winning. Wouldn’t the same thing happen with gopher hockey?

Not sure which thread this belongs in

A big thing baseball has going for it is that there's nothing else going on.

[The Rube]

But a big thing against baseball is that it doesn't "really count" right now (which is BS, but that is the mindset). Too long of a season.

[Norm]

Noticed the Twins attendance has gotten better as they start winning. Wouldn’t the same thing happen with gopher hockey?

Not sure which thread this belongs in

Twins tickets are more affordable.

[Handyman]

KC comes back to beat Cleveland so lets hold on and gain back a game!

[Bertogliat]

Noticed the Twins attendance has gotten better as they start winning. Wouldn’t the same thing happen with gopher hockey?

Not sure which thread this belongs in

Again, they won 6 regular season titles in a row. Something nobody has ever done before, yet attendance went down. It wasn’t winning.

And again, several of those were still bad Gopher teams that won the early B1G titles against terrible conference opponents. And they still lost most of the B1G playoff tournaments against those same bad teams and even missed the NCAAs because they couldn’t win outside the conference.

People aren’t going to flock to Mariucci to see the tallest midget.

[frozen4champs]

This rumor keeps going.

[SkiUMahLaw]

Excellent story by Reusse in the ST today about how the Twins discovered Kepler...with an added dig (thrown Falveys way) GPLers can Hate on Portly Pat all they want for turning on the Gophers ever since his nephew played for Jan Brady 15-16 years ago...but the guy is a talented story teller, regardless...

The Scout that found him (Andy Johnson) is from Litchfield. He's a good guy and knows his baseball. Funny too.

[Handyman]

This rumor keeps going.

I mean...if that is one of a few moves to help the rotation/bullpen that is a good move. In and of itself I am not sure it moves the meter much for me because he isnt exactly dominating. Maybe he needs a change though and we dont need him to bean ace or anything.