2019-2020 Wild Season

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by Slap Shot » Fri May 24 12:05 pm

frozen4champs wrote:
Fri May 24 11:12 am
team22tank wrote:
Fri May 24 9:28 am
frozen4champs wrote:
Fri May 24 8:19 am
As much as I would love Phil on the team, just can't make that trade. Phil plays defense like Vanek, and he needs to be on a winning team or I'm afraid he will turn back into Toronto Phil.
Phil put up 394 points in 446 games, an average of 72 points per season, 3 out of 6 seasons were point per game seasons. This was part of a Leafs organization that was running like the Oilers are now.

The Wild have been sound at D for the last 7 years always in the top 10. Adding a pure producer like Kessel who only has 3 years on his contract so not getting locked into anything crazy for Jason Zucker?

Zucker
23 years old, 26 points
24 years old, 23 points
25 years old, 47 points
26 years old, 64 points
27 years old, 42 points

People do realize we are taking about Jason Zucker right? Not Jason Zucker and our next 3 first rounders. Just Jason Zucker.
I guess I need to know what direction the Wild are going in. If they really think adding Phil will push then into a playoff spot ( not just a wild card) , I say go for it then. I just don't trust anything the Wild does.
There is enough history for that to make sense, but then outside of them pulling off the steal of the century they're kind of damned if they do damned if they don't with fans.
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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by team22tank » Fri May 24 12:23 pm

frozen4champs wrote:
Fri May 24 11:12 am

I guess I need to know what direction the Wild are going in. If they really think adding Phil will push then into a playoff spot ( not just a wild card) , I say go for it then. I just don't trust anything the Wild does. Last years draft is example #1. I really want them to succeed, but they need to hit the lottery with a trade sometime soon, and if it's Phill, that's would be awesome, but I have my doubts.
They are trying to compete. And based on the fact that they have loaded up with young forwards who all have some level of NHL experience those guys will be what makes this work or not.

The fact that they hovered around a playoff spot really until the end with the injuries and the number of moving pieces coming in, I don't know why they wouldn't try and compete?

And it's not like this is a mortgage the future move. Zucker in MN from age 28-32 isn't going to be much different than what we have already seen.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by trixR4kids » Fri May 24 2:37 pm

Snowcool08 wrote:
Thu May 23 11:54 pm
Jack Johnson has just as bad a contract. The Pens probably aren't interested in getting a bad contract in return.
Apparently they are if the rumors are true :oops:
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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by team22tank » Fri May 24 2:40 pm

trixR4kids wrote:
Fri May 24 2:37 pm
Snowcool08 wrote:
Thu May 23 11:54 pm
Jack Johnson has just as bad a contract. The Pens probably aren't interested in getting a bad contract in return.
Apparently they are if the rumors are true :oops:
Did J. Johnson start the season in the top 4? Was that the Pens thought when they brought him in?

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by Snowcool08 » Fri May 24 3:20 pm

team22tank wrote:
Fri May 24 2:40 pm
trixR4kids wrote:
Fri May 24 2:37 pm
Snowcool08 wrote:
Thu May 23 11:54 pm
Jack Johnson has just as bad a contract. The Pens probably aren't interested in getting a bad contract in return.
Apparently they are if the rumors are true :oops:
Did J. Johnson start the season in the top 4? Was that the Pens thought when they brought him in?
I’m not sure there was a plan. Letang, Doumolin, Schultz, Maata would be the top 4 more or less. They did start with year with Oleksiak, but he was never a top 4 guy. Injuries to all of the top 4 really put pressure on Johnson and he wasn’t nearly as bad as some made him out to be. He wasn’t great, just serviceable.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by YoungEagle » Fri May 24 3:21 pm

Snowcool08 wrote:
Fri May 24 3:20 pm
team22tank wrote:
Fri May 24 2:40 pm
trixR4kids wrote:
Fri May 24 2:37 pm
Snowcool08 wrote:
Thu May 23 11:54 pm
Jack Johnson has just as bad a contract. The Pens probably aren't interested in getting a bad contract in return.
Apparently they are if the rumors are true :oops:
Did J. Johnson start the season in the top 4? Was that the Pens thought when they brought him in?
I’m not sure there was a plan. Letang, Doumolin, Schultz, Maata would be the top 4 more or less. They did start with year with Oleksiak, but he was never a top 4 guy. Injuries to all of the top 4 really put pressure on Johnson and he wasn’t nearly as bad as some made him out to be. He wasn’t great, just serviceable.
Whats his contract? Isn't it like 3.2 something per year?
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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by team22tank » Fri May 24 3:34 pm

YoungEagle wrote:
Fri May 24 3:21 pm
Snowcool08 wrote:
Fri May 24 3:20 pm
team22tank wrote:
Fri May 24 2:40 pm
trixR4kids wrote:
Fri May 24 2:37 pm
Snowcool08 wrote:
Thu May 23 11:54 pm
Jack Johnson has just as bad a contract. The Pens probably aren't interested in getting a bad contract in return.
Apparently they are if the rumors are true :oops:
Did J. Johnson start the season in the top 4? Was that the Pens thought when they brought him in?
I’m not sure there was a plan. Letang, Doumolin, Schultz, Maata would be the top 4 more or less. They did start with year with Oleksiak, but he was never a top 4 guy. Injuries to all of the top 4 really put pressure on Johnson and he wasn’t nearly as bad as some made him out to be. He wasn’t great, just serviceable.
Whats his contract? Isn't it like 3.2 something per year?
Yes, 3.250 for 4 years.

I would gladly trade that for Rask and if that is part of the deal only makes more sense for the Wild.

Given the Wild's top 4 D situation they don't ask a whole lot out of 5-6. Just like the Pens high end talent at F, they might be able to get something out of Rask.
Last edited by team22tank on Fri May 24 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by trixR4kids » Fri May 24 3:38 pm

team22tank wrote:
Fri May 24 2:40 pm
trixR4kids wrote:
Fri May 24 2:37 pm
Snowcool08 wrote:
Thu May 23 11:54 pm
Jack Johnson has just as bad a contract. The Pens probably aren't interested in getting a bad contract in return.
Apparently they are if the rumors are true :oops:
Did J. Johnson start the season in the top 4? Was that the Pens thought when they brought him in?
IDK what the thought was, he sucks ass and it's not like it wasn't completely foreseeable. I think Rutherford saw it as some type of upgrade over Ian Cole and Hunwick but it clearly wasn't.
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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by ScoobyDoo » Fri May 24 5:01 pm

Listening to Russo on Bump on the way home I wouldn't get my hopes up for Phil Kessel or anyone else for that matter. Phil did his study on the Wild and this place is not a destination. And the reports from Nino and Coyle after leaving here are not good.
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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by Thirty-Four » Fri May 24 9:39 pm

ScoobyDoo wrote:
Fri May 24 5:01 pm
Listening to Russo on Bump on the way home I wouldn't get my hopes up for Phil Kessel or anyone else for that matter. Phil did his study on the Wild and this place is not a destination. And the reports from Nino and Coyle after leaving here are not good.
Immaterial compared to the reports on Iowa.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by glenhogan21 » Fri May 24 9:47 pm

J22 wrote:
Thu May 23 6:14 pm
glenhogan21 wrote:
Thu May 23 5:10 pm
I didn’t say he is injury prone, but he is certainly prone to slowing down as he ages given he doesn’t train hard, or hardly at all.
Are you sure that you even know who Phil Kessel is? Because your takes couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

Exactly what I said, effort issues and doesn’t take best care of himself.

https://pittsburghhockeynow.com/phil-ke ... hnson-too/

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by Thirty-Four » Fri May 24 9:52 pm

Phil marvels at how hard Kent Hrbek worked in the offseason.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by J22 » Fri May 24 9:55 pm

glenhogan21 wrote:
Fri May 24 9:47 pm
J22 wrote:
Thu May 23 6:14 pm
glenhogan21 wrote:
Thu May 23 5:10 pm
I didn’t say he is injury prone, but he is certainly prone to slowing down as he ages given he doesn’t train hard, or hardly at all.
Are you sure that you even know who Phil Kessel is? Because your takes couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

Exactly what I said, effort issues and doesn’t take best care of himself.

https://pittsburghhockeynow.com/phil-ke ... hnson-too/
When was the last time he missed a game?
What two seasons are the highest point scoring seasons of his career?

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by team22tank » Fri May 24 10:13 pm

"And so Minnesota Wild right wing Jason Zucker who is just one season removed from a 33-goal outburst but is otherwise a 40-point player with good skates might just be the best the Penguins can do."

:lol:

We are talking about Zucker. Jason Zucker.

Just Jason Zucker. :lol:
Last edited by team22tank on Fri May 24 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by glenhogan21 » Fri May 24 10:26 pm

Did you read the article? He and I have never said anything about injuries. Harder to get hurt when you don’t play D or hit anyone

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by J22 » Fri May 24 10:30 pm

glenhogan21 wrote:
Fri May 24 10:26 pm
Did you read the article? He and I have never said anything about injuries. Harder to get hurt when you don’t play D or hit anyone
If he plays every game and his production is as good or better than its ever been? Then WTF is your point?

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by glenhogan21 » Fri May 24 10:33 pm

what I have said 50 times! That we can get better options for Zucker, that’s Kessel will decline abruptly, that we need to get younger and he makes us older. The article even states his play dropped even with 82 points

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by J22 » Fri May 24 10:39 pm

glenhogan21 wrote:
Fri May 24 10:33 pm
what I have said 50 times! That we can get better options for Zucker, that’s Kessel will decline abruptly, that we need to get younger and he makes us older. The article even states his play dropped even with 82 points
1. Name the 82 point or better player that the Wild can get for Zucker?
2. "Kessel will decline abruptly" 174 points in his last 164 games says that you're most likely wrong again
3. The Wild don't need to get younger. They need to get better
4. Kessel's 82 point "decline" season would be the 2nd best season in Wild history. 1 point less than Gaborik's franchise high.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by Karlsson » Fri May 24 10:40 pm

glenhogan21 wrote:
Fri May 24 10:33 pm
what I have said 50 times! That we can get better options for Zucker, that’s Kessel will decline abruptly, that we need to get younger and he makes us older. The article even states his play dropped even with 82 points
I find some of your criticisms of Kessel valid. But the bolded part...

...this is where things get real shaky.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by glenhogan21 » Fri May 24 11:47 pm

J22 wrote:
Fri May 24 10:39 pm
glenhogan21 wrote:
Fri May 24 10:33 pm
what I have said 50 times! That we can get better options for Zucker, that’s Kessel will decline abruptly, that we need to get younger and he makes us older. The article even states his play dropped even with 82 points
1. Name the 82 point or better player that the Wild can get for Zucker?
2. "Kessel will decline abruptly" 174 points in his last 164 games says that you're most likely wrong again
3. The Wild don't need to get younger. They need to get better
4. Kessel's 82 point "decline" season would be the 2nd best season in Wild history. 1 point less than Gaborik's franchise high.
No way he would put up 82 points for Wild.
We can debate whether we think Kessel will make the Wild better, which is probably a waste of time since he won’t approve the trade. My point was you said my takes couldn’t be more wrong. A writer from the city that covers him wrote about the exact concerns.

As far as Zucker’s value. I would rather take a chance on a younger guy with best years ahead of him vs behind him. Clearly not a strong market for Kessel, there are reasons for that.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by scubasteve2727 » Sat May 25 6:55 am

Go read the articles from Pittsburgh....why does everyone who is way more plugged in and connected then any of us have concerns about Kessel?

Russo had some very good insight on the radio, and said that this deal wasn’t even agreed on yet. It’s not all in Kessels hand like we all seem to think.

You are trading your last and best trade chip. All I want is to do is stay patient and get the best deal possible.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by bearpaw28 » Sat May 25 7:29 am

Staying patient to get the best deal possible doesn’t always pan out...when a pretty good deal is already on the table... I like Zucker, but as I’ve noted countless times, he’s a quick twitch muscle player who badly lacks any kind of “high end hockey sense” which is the main reason he gets limited PP time. Overall Phil is a better, more well rounded offensive player & the difference on the defensive end is negligible, again due to Zuckers poor awareness in the D zone.. Only real knock on the trade being Zucker is younger. But I’d trade them even up.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by ScoobyDoo » Sat May 25 9:24 am

Considering what Fenton has pulled in for Nino, Coyle, and Granlund combined Kessel is an absolute steal for Zucker.
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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by scubasteve2727 » Sat May 25 9:31 am

Maybe this is my bias towards the past but this screams getting a big name too late. Just like Heatley and Vanek. I would much prefer we trade zucker for a player that fits vision of speed and pressure. If we do it, I hope he scores 100 points, just think he will come in the 60 range on our team

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by team22tank » Sat May 25 9:33 am

ScoobyDoo wrote:
Sat May 25 9:24 am
Considering what Fenton has pulled in for Nino, Coyle, and Granlund combined Kessel is an absolute steal for Zucker.
The only issue so far is Rask for Nino. If we are lucky maybe he can be moved as part of another deal.

On a side note. Nino went MN Wild Nino when he wasn't playing with Aho 24/7 in the playoffs.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by team22tank » Sat May 25 9:36 am

scubasteve2727 wrote:
Sat May 25 9:31 am
Maybe this is my bias towards the past but this screams getting a big name too late. Just like Heatley and Vanek. I would much prefer we trade zucker for a player that fits vision of speed and pressure. If we do it, I hope he scores 100 points, just think he will come in the 60 range on our team
Zucker is done here no matter what. It's just a matter of what type of deal. Player for player like the Kessel one we have been discussing. Or dumping him for some sort of package, like the Clagary deal.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by J22 » Sat May 25 11:54 am

scubasteve2727 wrote:
Sat May 25 6:55 am
Go read the articles from Pittsburgh....why does everyone who is way more plugged in and connected then any of us have concerns about Kessel?

Russo had some very good insight on the radio, and said that this deal wasn’t even agreed on yet. It’s not all in Kessels hand like we all seem to think.

You are trading your last and best trade chip. All I want is to do is stay patient and get the best deal possible.
Russo is wrong on that. Friedman and others have reported that the deal was already agreed upon.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31- ... -penguins/


Here’s my sense of what’s going on with Phil Kessel: he vetoed a trade to Minnesota and the story is out because both teams are unhappy. He cannot be traded to the Wild without specific approval, and, if you know Kessel, you know he will stand up for his rights no matter what anyone else thinks. The fact it got out may make it even harder to complete, because he’ll push back against pressure.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by team22tank » Sat May 25 12:02 pm

J22 wrote:
Sat May 25 11:54 am
scubasteve2727 wrote:
Sat May 25 6:55 am
Go read the articles from Pittsburgh....why does everyone who is way more plugged in and connected then any of us have concerns about Kessel?

Russo had some very good insight on the radio, and said that this deal wasn’t even agreed on yet. It’s not all in Kessels hand like we all seem to think.

You are trading your last and best trade chip. All I want is to do is stay patient and get the best deal possible.
Russo is wrong on that. Friedman and others have reported that the deal was already agreed upon.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31- ... -penguins/


Here’s my sense of what’s going on with Phil Kessel: he vetoed a trade to Minnesota and the story is out because both teams are unhappy. He cannot be traded to the Wild without specific approval, and, if you know Kessel, you know he will stand up for his rights no matter what anyone else thinks. The fact it got out may make it even harder to complete, because he’ll push back against pressure.
Also, per his no trade the Pens only have 8 teams they can trade him to, without his permission. So he almost has an iron no trade since he probably picked teams that dont have cap space and teams like Toronto, Boston, Philly, ect.

There is no reason he should just accept a trade. He might as well sit back and see what other teams come to the table and do what he feels is best.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by J22 » Sat May 25 12:10 pm

team22tank wrote:
Sat May 25 12:02 pm
J22 wrote:
Sat May 25 11:54 am
scubasteve2727 wrote:
Sat May 25 6:55 am
Go read the articles from Pittsburgh....why does everyone who is way more plugged in and connected then any of us have concerns about Kessel?

Russo had some very good insight on the radio, and said that this deal wasn’t even agreed on yet. It’s not all in Kessels hand like we all seem to think.

You are trading your last and best trade chip. All I want is to do is stay patient and get the best deal possible.
Russo is wrong on that. Friedman and others have reported that the deal was already agreed upon.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31- ... -penguins/


Here’s my sense of what’s going on with Phil Kessel: he vetoed a trade to Minnesota and the story is out because both teams are unhappy. He cannot be traded to the Wild without specific approval, and, if you know Kessel, you know he will stand up for his rights no matter what anyone else thinks. The fact it got out may make it even harder to complete, because he’ll push back against pressure.
Also, per his no trade the Pens only have 8 teams they can trade him to, without his permission. So he almost has an iron no trade since he probably picked teams that dont have cap space and teams like Toronto, Boston, Philly, ect.

There is no reason he should just accept a trade. He might as well sit back and see what other teams come to the table and do what he feels is best.
depends on how badly he wants out of Pittsburgh I guess

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by Handyman » Sat May 25 12:34 pm

YoungEagle wrote:
Fri May 24 10:00 am
All this clamouring for a pure scorer and then when that could possibly happen it’s oh no he has flaws...

I mean Ovi’s game isn’t perfect either. Tarasenko’s game isn’t perfect. I’d rather have Kessel than Zucker.

Would Boston take Zucker for Bergeron? :ahhh: God I’d love to see him play here. Speaking of players without flaws...
Yeah this is the correct point. There arent many pure scorers out there and there even less that have perfect games. If you want a player like this you have to accept the flaws that is just how the game works.

The Wild need a pure scorer friggin badly. We spent years waiting for one to develop and it didnt happen for various reasons.

I like Zucker a ton, I would rather keep him around but if this trade is possible (i.e. he waives the No Trade) the Wild would be foolish not to make it. 31 is nothing in the NHL and he is exactly what this team doesnt have. The guy plays in every game and he is always a threat on the ice. Is he slower, yes. Has that hurt him...doesnt seem too.

Hey if the Wild want to rebuild you dont make this move. If we think the Wild are a few pieces away you make this deal in a heartbeat and anyone pretending that isnt true is either blindly loyal to "our guys" or isnt going to be satisfied no matter the move. Zucker is not a superstar, he is not a pure scorer and he isnt in the same league as Kessel even if you accept Phil slowed down. It is a net upgrade for the team on paper. (obviously we wont know how it will turn out) Without the trade (or something similar) this team is not a playoff squad and even if they eek in are a quick out.
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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by Handyman » Sat May 25 12:42 pm

glenhogan21 wrote:
Fri May 24 11:47 pm
J22 wrote:
Fri May 24 10:39 pm
glenhogan21 wrote:
Fri May 24 10:33 pm
what I have said 50 times! That we can get better options for Zucker, that’s Kessel will decline abruptly, that we need to get younger and he makes us older. The article even states his play dropped even with 82 points
1. Name the 82 point or better player that the Wild can get for Zucker?
2. "Kessel will decline abruptly" 174 points in his last 164 games says that you're most likely wrong again
3. The Wild don't need to get younger. They need to get better
4. Kessel's 82 point "decline" season would be the 2nd best season in Wild history. 1 point less than Gaborik's franchise high.
No way he would put up 82 points for Wild.
We can debate whether we think Kessel will make the Wild better, which is probably a waste of time since he won’t approve the trade. My point was you said my takes couldn’t be more wrong. A writer from the city that covers him wrote about the exact concerns.

As far as Zucker’s value. I would rather take a chance on a younger guy with best years ahead of him vs behind him. Clearly not a strong market for Kessel, there are reasons for that.
As opposed to the strong market for Zucker? If Zucker was as great as some Wild fans seem to think he is half the league would be making offers for him. I think the league knows exactly who Zucker is and, much like this team always does, we make him shine more because he plays a more prominent spot here than he would anywhere else.
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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by Handyman » Sat May 25 12:49 pm

scubasteve2727 wrote:
Sat May 25 6:55 am
Go read the articles from Pittsburgh....why does everyone who is way more plugged in and connected then any of us have concerns about Kessel?

Russo had some very good insight on the radio, and said that this deal wasn’t even agreed on yet. It’s not all in Kessels hand like we all seem to think.

You are trading your last and best trade chip. All I want is to do is stay patient and get the best deal possible.
Ah yes the Twins Mantra for a decade.

The second the trade with Calgary almost happened the die was cast and everyone knew it. No one is going to overload to get Zucker because a) he isnt worth it and B) they know his days are numbered. If you are holding out for the best deal then dont trade him now because you wont get it. (unless someone gets really really stupid) Wait til the trade deadline and someone might overpay when they are making a run. I doubt you will get anything better than Phil this offseason.

Hey if they dont trade Zucker the world wont end for me cause I like him a lot...but I think he is capped on potential at this point and without much else we can trade its either get something valuable or stand pat with the team and pray things work out ridiculously well. I would rather them take the chance and fail because if we stand pat there is no way the team goes anywhere next year. I dont care if it is Phil or someone else this team needs a scorer and a PP threat.
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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by J22 » Sat May 25 1:13 pm

Handyman wrote:
Sat May 25 12:49 pm
scubasteve2727 wrote:
Sat May 25 6:55 am
Go read the articles from Pittsburgh....why does everyone who is way more plugged in and connected then any of us have concerns about Kessel?

Russo had some very good insight on the radio, and said that this deal wasn’t even agreed on yet. It’s not all in Kessels hand like we all seem to think.

You are trading your last and best trade chip. All I want is to do is stay patient and get the best deal possible.
Ah yes the Twins Mantra for a decade.

The second the trade with Calgary almost happened the die was cast and everyone knew it. No one is going to overload to get Zucker because a) he isnt worth it and B) they know his days are numbered. If you are holding out for the best deal then dont trade him now because you wont get it. (unless someone gets really really stupid) Wait til the trade deadline and someone might overpay when they are making a run. I doubt you will get anything better than Phil this offseason.

Hey if they dont trade Zucker the world wont end for me cause I like him a lot...but I think he is capped on potential at this point and without much else we can trade its either get something valuable or stand pat with the team and pray things work out ridiculously well. I would rather them take the chance and fail because if we stand pat there is no way the team goes anywhere next year. I dont care if it is Phil or someone else this team needs a scorer and a PP threat.
Zucker has a NTC that kicks in on July 1st. He will be traded before that happens

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by bearpaw28 » Sat May 25 2:03 pm

Handyman wrote:
Sat May 25 12:49 pm
scubasteve2727 wrote:
Sat May 25 6:55 am
Go read the articles from Pittsburgh....why does everyone who is way more plugged in and connected then any of us have concerns about Kessel?

Russo had some very good insight on the radio, and said that this deal wasn’t even agreed on yet. It’s not all in Kessels hand like we all seem to think.

You are trading your last and best trade chip. All I want is to do is stay patient and get the best deal possible.
Ah yes the Twins Mantra for a decade.

EXACTLY CORRECT :chainsaw:

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by ScoobyDoo » Sat May 25 3:37 pm

Yep. Wild are now in Twins mode. No one wants to play here anymore. The trade was done and Phil said, "you won't me to play there? no f*** way." and then it was done.

Now you won't get squat for him. You've already blown two trades with him already.

And no, Rask and Nino was not the only problem. They should have gotten more for Coyle and they should have gotten more for Granlund. Coyle is now a key cog on a team that is likely to raise the Cup and all you got for him was a prospect. Granlund should have at least garnered a draft pick along with Fiala. Fiala better pan out big time for Fenton's sake.
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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by glenhogan21 » Sat May 25 4:11 pm

Handyman wrote:
Sat May 25 12:42 pm
glenhogan21 wrote:
Fri May 24 11:47 pm
J22 wrote:
Fri May 24 10:39 pm
glenhogan21 wrote:
Fri May 24 10:33 pm
what I have said 50 times! That we can get better options for Zucker, that’s Kessel will decline abruptly, that we need to get younger and he makes us older. The article even states his play dropped even with 82 points
1. Name the 82 point or better player that the Wild can get for Zucker?
2. "Kessel will decline abruptly" 174 points in his last 164 games says that you're most likely wrong again
3. The Wild don't need to get younger. They need to get better
4. Kessel's 82 point "decline" season would be the 2nd best season in Wild history. 1 point less than Gaborik's franchise high.
No way he would put up 82 points for Wild.
We can debate whether we think Kessel will make the Wild better, which is probably a waste of time since he won’t approve the trade. My point was you said my takes couldn’t be more wrong. A writer from the city that covers him wrote about the exact concerns.

As far as Zucker’s value. I would rather take a chance on a younger guy with best years ahead of him vs behind him. Clearly not a strong market for Kessel, there are reasons for that.
As opposed to the strong market for Zucker? If Zucker was as great as some Wild fans seem to think he is half the league would be making offers for him. I think the league knows exactly who Zucker is and, much like this team always does, we make him shine more because he plays a more prominent spot here than he would anywhere else.
I would WAY rather take chance on Trocheck. I don’t live in MN so don’t see many Wild games, only ones on national TV and highlights on NHL network. Pens are on national TV a lot, which means I see them a lot, which is why I don’t have much interest in Kessel despite the 82 point season.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by J22 » Sat May 25 4:12 pm

glenhogan21 wrote:
Sat May 25 4:11 pm
Handyman wrote:
Sat May 25 12:42 pm
glenhogan21 wrote:
Fri May 24 11:47 pm
J22 wrote:
Fri May 24 10:39 pm
glenhogan21 wrote:
Fri May 24 10:33 pm
what I have said 50 times! That we can get better options for Zucker, that’s Kessel will decline abruptly, that we need to get younger and he makes us older. The article even states his play dropped even with 82 points
1. Name the 82 point or better player that the Wild can get for Zucker?
2. "Kessel will decline abruptly" 174 points in his last 164 games says that you're most likely wrong again
3. The Wild don't need to get younger. They need to get better
4. Kessel's 82 point "decline" season would be the 2nd best season in Wild history. 1 point less than Gaborik's franchise high.
No way he would put up 82 points for Wild.
We can debate whether we think Kessel will make the Wild better, which is probably a waste of time since he won’t approve the trade. My point was you said my takes couldn’t be more wrong. A writer from the city that covers him wrote about the exact concerns.

As far as Zucker’s value. I would rather take a chance on a younger guy with best years ahead of him vs behind him. Clearly not a strong market for Kessel, there are reasons for that.
As opposed to the strong market for Zucker? If Zucker was as great as some Wild fans seem to think he is half the league would be making offers for him. I think the league knows exactly who Zucker is and, much like this team always does, we make him shine more because he plays a more prominent spot here than he would anywhere else.
I would WAY rather take chance on Trocheck. I don’t live in MN so don’t see many Wild games, only ones on national TV and highlights on NHL network. Pens are on national TV a lot, which means I see them a lot, which is why I don’t have much interest in Kessel despite the 82 point season.
You can't possibly think that Zucker could get you a guy like Trocheck?

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by ScoobyDoo » Sat May 25 4:17 pm

Zucker ain't likely to get $h!t now from anyone.
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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by J22 » Sat May 25 4:22 pm

ScoobyDoo wrote:
Sat May 25 4:17 pm
Zucker ain't likely to get $h!t now from anyone.
Why is that?

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by glenhogan21 » Sat May 25 4:32 pm

J22 wrote:
Sat May 25 4:12 pm
glenhogan21 wrote:
Sat May 25 4:11 pm
Handyman wrote:
Sat May 25 12:42 pm
glenhogan21 wrote:
Fri May 24 11:47 pm
J22 wrote:
Fri May 24 10:39 pm
glenhogan21 wrote:
Fri May 24 10:33 pm
what I have said 50 times! That we can get better options for Zucker, that’s Kessel will decline abruptly, that we need to get younger and he makes us older. The article even states his play dropped even with 82 points
1. Name the 82 point or better player that the Wild can get for Zucker?
2. "Kessel will decline abruptly" 174 points in his last 164 games says that you're most likely wrong again
3. The Wild don't need to get younger. They need to get better
4. Kessel's 82 point "decline" season would be the 2nd best season in Wild history. 1 point less than Gaborik's franchise high.
No way he would put up 82 points for Wild.
We can debate whether we think Kessel will make the Wild better, which is probably a waste of time since he won’t approve the trade. My point was you said my takes couldn’t be more wrong. A writer from the city that covers him wrote about the exact concerns.

As far as Zucker’s value. I would rather take a chance on a younger guy with best years ahead of him vs behind him. Clearly not a strong market for Kessel, there are reasons for that.
As opposed to the strong market for Zucker? If Zucker was as great as some Wild fans seem to think he is half the league would be making offers for him. I think the league knows exactly who Zucker is and, much like this team always does, we make him shine more because he plays a more prominent spot here than he would anywhere else.
I would WAY rather take chance on Trocheck. I don’t live in MN so don’t see many Wild games, only ones on national TV and highlights on NHL network. Pens are on national TV a lot, which means I see them a lot, which is why I don’t have much interest in Kessel despite the 82 point season.
You can't possibly think that Zucker could get you a guy like Trocheck?
You never know, some of the guys we have thought would be very expensive to acquire in past have gone for way less than we thought. Who would have thought a team would offer a 1st round pick for Staal, and then Fenton would decline! The deal doesn’t have to be one-for-one either.
4C089865-C8E6-4486-A13C-B4EE52BCE072.png

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by ScoobyDoo » Sat May 25 4:45 pm

J22 wrote:
Sat May 25 4:22 pm
ScoobyDoo wrote:
Sat May 25 4:17 pm
Zucker ain't likely to get $h!t now from anyone.
Why is that?
Because. Everyone knows the Wild desperately want to get rid of him. He had a down year. And, they've blown two trades for him already. This team is not getting enough value for it's assets and no one wants to play here. God bless Staal for wanting to come here when he did. They need to find another guy like that with a family and kids that want to play hockey. Few and far between.
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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by J22 » Sat May 25 4:58 pm

glenhogan21 wrote:
Sat May 25 4:32 pm
J22 wrote:
Sat May 25 4:12 pm
glenhogan21 wrote:
Sat May 25 4:11 pm
Handyman wrote:
Sat May 25 12:42 pm
glenhogan21 wrote:
Fri May 24 11:47 pm
J22 wrote:
Fri May 24 10:39 pm
glenhogan21 wrote:
Fri May 24 10:33 pm
what I have said 50 times! That we can get better options for Zucker, that’s Kessel will decline abruptly, that we need to get younger and he makes us older. The article even states his play dropped even with 82 points
1. Name the 82 point or better player that the Wild can get for Zucker?
2. "Kessel will decline abruptly" 174 points in his last 164 games says that you're most likely wrong again
3. The Wild don't need to get younger. They need to get better
4. Kessel's 82 point "decline" season would be the 2nd best season in Wild history. 1 point less than Gaborik's franchise high.
No way he would put up 82 points for Wild.
We can debate whether we think Kessel will make the Wild better, which is probably a waste of time since he won’t approve the trade. My point was you said my takes couldn’t be more wrong. A writer from the city that covers him wrote about the exact concerns.

As far as Zucker’s value. I would rather take a chance on a younger guy with best years ahead of him vs behind him. Clearly not a strong market for Kessel, there are reasons for that.
As opposed to the strong market for Zucker? If Zucker was as great as some Wild fans seem to think he is half the league would be making offers for him. I think the league knows exactly who Zucker is and, much like this team always does, we make him shine more because he plays a more prominent spot here than he would anywhere else.
I would WAY rather take chance on Trocheck. I don’t live in MN so don’t see many Wild games, only ones on national TV and highlights on NHL network. Pens are on national TV a lot, which means I see them a lot, which is why I don’t have much interest in Kessel despite the 82 point season.
You can't possibly think that Zucker could get you a guy like Trocheck?
You never know, some of the guys we have thought would be very expensive to acquire in past have gone for way less than we thought. Who would have thought a team would offer a 1st round pick for Staal, and then Fenton would decline! The deal doesn’t have to be one-for-one either.

4C089865-C8E6-4486-A13C-B4EE52BCE072.png
Florida is going to clear cap space by trading a guy making $4.75M for a guy making $5.25M?

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by glenhogan21 » Sat May 25 4:58 pm


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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by J22 » Sat May 25 5:01 pm

ScoobyDoo wrote:
Sat May 25 4:45 pm
J22 wrote:
Sat May 25 4:22 pm
ScoobyDoo wrote:
Sat May 25 4:17 pm
Zucker ain't likely to get $h!t now from anyone.
Why is that?
Because. Everyone knows the Wild desperately want to get rid of him. He had a down year. And, they've blown two trades for him already. This team is not getting enough value for it's assets and no one wants to play here. God bless Staal for wanting to come here when he did. They need to find another guy like that with a family and kids that want to play hockey. Few and far between.
Fenton just got a player for Zucker that is twice the player that Zucker could ever hope to be. Because Kessel didn't waive his NTC, now nobody wants to play here? Get real

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by ScoobyDoo » Sat May 25 5:16 pm

J22 wrote:
Sat May 25 5:01 pm
ScoobyDoo wrote:
Sat May 25 4:45 pm
J22 wrote:
Sat May 25 4:22 pm
ScoobyDoo wrote:
Sat May 25 4:17 pm
Zucker ain't likely to get $h!t now from anyone.
Why is that?
Because. Everyone knows the Wild desperately want to get rid of him. He had a down year. And, they've blown two trades for him already. This team is not getting enough value for it's assets and no one wants to play here. God bless Staal for wanting to come here when he did. They need to find another guy like that with a family and kids that want to play hockey. Few and far between.
Fenton just got a player for Zucker that is twice the player that Zucker could ever hope to be. Because Kessel didn't waive his NTC, now nobody wants to play here? Get real
I am getting real. 2 hours of talk on the radio today confirms it.
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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by J22 » Sat May 25 5:22 pm

ScoobyDoo wrote:
Sat May 25 5:16 pm
J22 wrote:
Sat May 25 5:01 pm
ScoobyDoo wrote:
Sat May 25 4:45 pm
J22 wrote:
Sat May 25 4:22 pm
ScoobyDoo wrote:
Sat May 25 4:17 pm
Zucker ain't likely to get $h!t now from anyone.
Why is that?
Because. Everyone knows the Wild desperately want to get rid of him. He had a down year. And, they've blown two trades for him already. This team is not getting enough value for it's assets and no one wants to play here. God bless Staal for wanting to come here when he did. They need to find another guy like that with a family and kids that want to play hockey. Few and far between.
Fenton just got a player for Zucker that is twice the player that Zucker could ever hope to be. Because Kessel didn't waive his NTC, now nobody wants to play here? Get real
I am getting real. 2 hours of talk on the radio today confirms it.
You got confirmation of anything from the radio? Might want to rethink that strategy.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by ScoobyDoo » Sat May 25 5:58 pm

J22 wrote:
Sat May 25 5:22 pm
ScoobyDoo wrote:
Sat May 25 5:16 pm
J22 wrote:
Sat May 25 5:01 pm
ScoobyDoo wrote:
Sat May 25 4:45 pm
J22 wrote:
Sat May 25 4:22 pm
ScoobyDoo wrote:
Sat May 25 4:17 pm
Zucker ain't likely to get $h!t now from anyone.
Why is that?
Because. Everyone knows the Wild desperately want to get rid of him. He had a down year. And, they've blown two trades for him already. This team is not getting enough value for it's assets and no one wants to play here. God bless Staal for wanting to come here when he did. They need to find another guy like that with a family and kids that want to play hockey. Few and far between.
Fenton just got a player for Zucker that is twice the player that Zucker could ever hope to be. Because Kessel didn't waive his NTC, now nobody wants to play here? Get real
I am getting real. 2 hours of talk on the radio today confirms it.
You got confirmation of anything from the radio? Might want to rethink that strategy.
You see Phil anywhere?

I'll quote. Minnesota is NOT a destination this offseason.
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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by J22 » Sat May 25 6:45 pm

ScoobyDoo wrote:
Sat May 25 5:58 pm
J22 wrote:
Sat May 25 5:22 pm
ScoobyDoo wrote:
Sat May 25 5:16 pm
J22 wrote:
Sat May 25 5:01 pm
ScoobyDoo wrote:
Sat May 25 4:45 pm
J22 wrote:
Sat May 25 4:22 pm
ScoobyDoo wrote:
Sat May 25 4:17 pm
Zucker ain't likely to get $h!t now from anyone.
Why is that?
Because. Everyone knows the Wild desperately want to get rid of him. He had a down year. And, they've blown two trades for him already. This team is not getting enough value for it's assets and no one wants to play here. God bless Staal for wanting to come here when he did. They need to find another guy like that with a family and kids that want to play hockey. Few and far between.
Fenton just got a player for Zucker that is twice the player that Zucker could ever hope to be. Because Kessel didn't waive his NTC, now nobody wants to play here? Get real
I am getting real. 2 hours of talk on the radio today confirms it.
You got confirmation of anything from the radio? Might want to rethink that strategy.
You see Phil anywhere?

I'll quote. Minnesota is NOT a destination this offseason.
I'm not sure you understand the whole "quote" thing? Or, are you quoting yourself?

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by Handyman » Sat May 25 11:43 pm

So wait you didnt want them to trade for Phil but now you are upset because Phil didnt want to come here? Ok...we are now going to be "stuck" with Zucker who you just said you didnt want them to get rid of...you should be rejoicing. We dont have to trade him you know he is under contract so if we dont get what we want we can just keep him you get that right?

You put way to much stock in what "experts" say. Russo is a great beat reporter and all but he isnt the end all be all and he certainly doesnt know everything that is going on.
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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by glenhogan21 » Sun May 26 10:28 am

J22 wrote:
Sat May 25 4:58 pm
glenhogan21 wrote:
Sat May 25 4:32 pm
J22 wrote:
Sat May 25 4:12 pm
glenhogan21 wrote:
Sat May 25 4:11 pm
Handyman wrote:
Sat May 25 12:42 pm
glenhogan21 wrote:
Fri May 24 11:47 pm
J22 wrote:
Fri May 24 10:39 pm


1. Name the 82 point or better player that the Wild can get for Zucker?
2. "Kessel will decline abruptly" 174 points in his last 164 games says that you're most likely wrong again
3. The Wild don't need to get younger. They need to get better
4. Kessel's 82 point "decline" season would be the 2nd best season in Wild history. 1 point less than Gaborik's franchise high.
No way he would put up 82 points for Wild.
We can debate whether we think Kessel will make the Wild better, which is probably a waste of time since he won’t approve the trade. My point was you said my takes couldn’t be more wrong. A writer from the city that covers him wrote about the exact concerns.

As far as Zucker’s value. I would rather take a chance on a younger guy with best years ahead of him vs behind him. Clearly not a strong market for Kessel, there are reasons for that.
As opposed to the strong market for Zucker? If Zucker was as great as some Wild fans seem to think he is half the league would be making offers for him. I think the league knows exactly who Zucker is and, much like this team always does, we make him shine more because he plays a more prominent spot here than he would anywhere else.
I would WAY rather take chance on Trocheck. I don’t live in MN so don’t see many Wild games, only ones on national TV and highlights on NHL network. Pens are on national TV a lot, which means I see them a lot, which is why I don’t have much interest in Kessel despite the 82 point season.
You can't possibly think that Zucker could get you a guy like Trocheck?
You never know, some of the guys we have thought would be very expensive to acquire in past have gone for way less than we thought. Who would have thought a team would offer a 1st round pick for Staal, and then Fenton would decline! The deal doesn’t have to be one-for-one either.

4C089865-C8E6-4486-A13C-B4EE52BCE072.png
Florida is going to clear cap space by trading a guy making $4.75M for a guy making $5.25M?
Read the last line of previous post....

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by Gopher99 » Mon May 27 12:22 pm

Sounds like Phil turned down the trade as he didn't see a clear path to winning on the Wild. Can't say I blame him.

https://theathletic.com/996078/2019/05/ ... cker-deal/

On the topic of direction and such, not sure if anyone else caught it recently, but thought it was pretty telling how Russo spoke about Craig Leipold's GM process last summer to replace Chuck Fletcher and an overall lack of forward thinking in the whole thing. It was on the 'Athletic Hour' a few weeks back with Jon Krawczynski who spoke about the Wolves process to select Gersson Rosas for POBO. Obviously Glen Taylor's decision making for the last 20 years is well-documented but it sounds like he's finally learned from his mishaps and makes me wonder if Leipold really did his due diligence in the process.

Russo more or less expressed that the Wild's process to select a GM couldn't have been more opposite of what the Wolves did to hire Rosas - i.e. the owner (Taylor) selecting the CEO Ethan Casson to help form a team (a 6 person committee) and find a new leader. (i.e. from the Athletic article below: "The process included a six-member interview team broken into two groups, one to address the more traditional aspects of the job, including vision for the roster, plans for the staff and player development; and another group to delve into the subjects of community engagement, connecting the franchise across all departments and understanding the uphill climb the Timberwolves have in this crowded Twin Cities sports market").

https://theathletic.com/963229/2019/05/ ... berwolves/

Russo pretty much shared that Leipold already knew who he wanted and there was essentially no legitimate GM search, in what should have been a fairly coveted position if he had been open-minded. Russo alluded to the point that Leipold placed an emphasis on the organization that Fenton came from (and where his ties were and comfort level stood) even without firsthand GM experience in a pivotal time for the Wild's roster and didn't seem open to conduct a full process. Time will tell how this works out and such, but interesting to hear the background on the owner's decision making process and how it went down. Not to armchair GM the guy, but I'd have to imagine a more experienced individual in the role thus far would have at least acquired more asset maximization for Nino, Coyle, and Granlund (continuing to escalate the Bruins draft pick the further they advanced in the playoffs for Coyle, retrieving a draft pick back for Nino, a draft pick back for Granlund, etc). Fenton has also released a majority of the analytics department (in an era of athletics that generally places more emphasis, not less) if I read correctly.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by J22 » Mon May 27 1:38 pm

Glen Taylor might just be the single biggest idiot in the history of sports. You really want Leipold to emulate that?

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by Chris83 » Mon May 27 1:44 pm

J22 wrote:
Mon May 27 1:38 pm
Glen Taylor might just be the single biggest idiot in the history of sports. You really want Leipold to emulate that?
I believe the general perception regarding the hire of Rosas is that this time, as opposed to the blunders of the past, things were done in a well organized, well researched and well thought out manner. For the Wild and Fenton, it seems as though Leipold had his choice already made.
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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by team22tank » Mon May 27 1:55 pm

Chris83 wrote:
Mon May 27 1:44 pm
J22 wrote:
Mon May 27 1:38 pm
Glen Taylor might just be the single biggest idiot in the history of sports. You really want Leipold to emulate that?
I believe the general perception regarding the hire of Rosas is that this time, as opposed to the blunders of the past, things were done in a well organized, well researched and well thought out manner. For the Wild and Fenton, it seems as though Leipold had his choice already made.
http://www.startribune.com/wild-has-three-names-on-short-list-for-gm-job/482440881/

These were just the final interviews.

The Rube Fans are really something to behold. The Wild were a playoff team 6 years in a row, 4 as a Wild Card, and then 2nd and 3rd in the division. This year they were just on the outside with no Dumba, Koivu, and then EK and Parise down the stretch and a handful of moves.

Just getting into the playoffs and not getting past the first round was unacceptable and change was needed everyone clamored. Apparently unloading 2 career 40 point players, Colye and Nino and what will be a 3rd in Zucker is not the change those Rubes were talking about. And Granlund who while just about everyone cringed about when talking extension is now sorely missed.

The Rubes are acting like Donato, Greenway, Fiala, Kunin and Ek are who they are and that is that for the Wild.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by Gopher99 » Mon May 27 2:15 pm

Totally fair statements. As noted, GT has a well-documented awful track record of talent evaluation. We have no idea how Rosas will impact the organization at this time. There is still plenty of time for Fenton too.

Again, to me it was just interesting to hear the two reporters, who I both consider very fair on their coverage of the respective organizations, to discuss vital decisions conducted in completely different manners.

The reason this is exposed today is because a pretty-well established NHL player essentially said no to the Wild with a trade because "he didn't see a path to winning here". Russo echoed this sentiment on Souhan's podcast recently pretty much saying "based on his moves, does Paul Fenton have a plan? Did he sell a plan to Craig and is there alignment with this? Does Spurgeon see a path to winning here (in order to re-sign)?"

It's totally just my two cents but just feels like a cultivation of the events that led up to this.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by J22 » Mon May 27 2:30 pm

Gopher99 wrote:
Mon May 27 2:15 pm
Totally fair statements. As noted, GT has a well-documented awful track record of talent evaluation. We have no idea how Rosas will impact the organization at this time. There is still plenty of time for Fenton too.

Again, to me it was just interesting to hear the two reporters, who I both consider very fair on their coverage of the respective organizations, to discuss vital decisions conducted in completely different manners.

The reason this is exposed today is because a pretty-well established NHL player essentially said no to the Wild with a trade because "he didn't see a path to winning here". Russo echoed this sentiment on Souhan's podcast recently pretty much saying "based on his moves, does Paul Fenton have a plan? Did he sell a plan to Craig and is there alignment with this? Does Spurgeon see a path to winning here (in order to re-sign)?"

It's totally just my two cents but just feels like a cultivation of the events that led up to this.
If you really think that Russo's coverage of Fenton has been "fair" then you really aren't paying attention. Russo and Fenton don't like each other. At all.

Kessel saying no to Minnesota isn't a good sign, but nobody actually knows the reason why he said no. The quotes you have above are more of Russo fitting his speculation into a story than anything factual.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by team22tank » Mon May 27 2:43 pm

J22 wrote:
Mon May 27 2:30 pm
Gopher99 wrote:
Mon May 27 2:15 pm
Totally fair statements. As noted, GT has a well-documented awful track record of talent evaluation. We have no idea how Rosas will impact the organization at this time. There is still plenty of time for Fenton too.

Again, to me it was just interesting to hear the two reporters, who I both consider very fair on their coverage of the respective organizations, to discuss vital decisions conducted in completely different manners.

The reason this is exposed today is because a pretty-well established NHL player essentially said no to the Wild with a trade because "he didn't see a path to winning here". Russo echoed this sentiment on Souhan's podcast recently pretty much saying "based on his moves, does Paul Fenton have a plan? Did he sell a plan to Craig and is there alignment with this? Does Spurgeon see a path to winning here (in order to re-sign)?"

It's totally just my two cents but just feels like a cultivation of the events that led up to this.
If you really think that Russo's coverage of Fenton has been "fair" then you really aren't paying attention. Russo and Fenton don't like each other. At all.

Kessel saying no to Minnesota isn't a good sign, but nobody actually knows the reason why he said no. The quotes you have above are more of Russo fitting his speculation into a story than anything factual.
Phil has the leverage. Unless the Pens find a team to work with on his list of 8. But even then the deal might not be something they are willing to do.

What I was trying to say the other day is there is no reason Phil needs to say Yes to the first trade offer that pops up. He is in a position to get a feel for what teams might be interested in and then go from there.

And let's remeber he plays for the Penguins with Malkin and Crosby, won back to back Cups. Not many teams are going to fit that type of expectation.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by J22 » Mon May 27 2:48 pm

team22tank wrote:
Mon May 27 2:43 pm
J22 wrote:
Mon May 27 2:30 pm
Gopher99 wrote:
Mon May 27 2:15 pm
Totally fair statements. As noted, GT has a well-documented awful track record of talent evaluation. We have no idea how Rosas will impact the organization at this time. There is still plenty of time for Fenton too.

Again, to me it was just interesting to hear the two reporters, who I both consider very fair on their coverage of the respective organizations, to discuss vital decisions conducted in completely different manners.

The reason this is exposed today is because a pretty-well established NHL player essentially said no to the Wild with a trade because "he didn't see a path to winning here". Russo echoed this sentiment on Souhan's podcast recently pretty much saying "based on his moves, does Paul Fenton have a plan? Did he sell a plan to Craig and is there alignment with this? Does Spurgeon see a path to winning here (in order to re-sign)?"

It's totally just my two cents but just feels like a cultivation of the events that led up to this.
If you really think that Russo's coverage of Fenton has been "fair" then you really aren't paying attention. Russo and Fenton don't like each other. At all.

Kessel saying no to Minnesota isn't a good sign, but nobody actually knows the reason why he said no. The quotes you have above are more of Russo fitting his speculation into a story than anything factual.
Phil has the leverage. Unless the Pens find a team to work with on his list of 8. But even then the deal might not be something they are willing to do.

What I was trying to say the other day is there is no reason Phil needs to say Yes to the first trade offer that pops up. He is in a position to get a feel for what teams might be interested in and then go from there.

And let's remeber he plays for the Penguins with Malkin and Crosby, won back to back Cups. Not many teams are going to fit that type of expectation.
All of this is true, but if he really wanted to come to Minnesota the deal would already be done. I don't think Kessel saying no is as terrible as Russo is playing it up to be, but it isn't a good sign either.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by Vegoe » Tue May 28 2:54 pm

53 minutes -- Pat and Russo talking what the heck Fenton is doing.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by frozen4champs » Wed May 29 1:04 pm

In the latest Hockey News mock draft, they have the Wild taking center Alex Newhook. He is a BC commit from Canada. Others of note-- Caufield to Oilers @ 8, Turcotte to Ducks @ 9, Brink to Preds @24, Ryan Johnson to Tampa @ 27

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by Bonin21 » Wed May 29 1:28 pm

He seems the most likely since Caufield will be gone and Kaliyev too probably.
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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by Vegoe » Thu May 30 11:41 am

Vegoe wrote:
Fri May 24 9:16 am
If you are counting on your wings to play shutdown defense all of the time, then you have bigger troubles on your roster. They obviously have some responsibility in the defensive zone as you can't play 4 on 5 there, but those are your talents that you have to let loose a bit. I think the problem with Vanek was that he wasn't able to sustain much offense without lots of helpers. Kessel won't have that issue and he will make other players around him better.

$ - https://theathletic.com/991843/2019/05/ ... er-sports/

UAA's favorite son Justin Bourne wrote about why hockey analysis is hard work and dropped an interesting nugget in there that I thought was worth sharing.

"We as fans are certainly entitled to having our journalists and reporters doing a proper amount of work before sharing their opinions, but they can’t just be based on numbers. A stat like single-game Corsi is, to use internet speak, often insanely bad (I feel wingers in particular here are at the mercy of small sample events out of their control)."

This is so true... so little of a minus can usually be attributed to wings. They're in there to create chances, ignite chaos. Something to keep in mind.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by frozen4champs » Thu May 30 11:50 am


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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by ScoobyDoo » Thu May 30 1:07 pm

Latest Russo podcast (Souhan, Russo) has Lou Nanne as a guest. They are discussing Zucker now in the first 20 minutes about WHY the Wild are not a destination this summer. Good luck with that extra Free Agent money Paul.

Agents (the guys who would know) are feeding this information to Russo.
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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by g-manpuck » Thu May 30 1:46 pm

Like Russo said in his Kessel article Zucker has to be pissed that he has been a part of two failed trade attempts by the Wild. I get that Zucker is one of a couple of trade-able assets the Wild have but I would be pissed that evidently the team you're signed with doesn't think your someone who can help this team succeed. It's business I know but where's the f*** loyalty on the teams part? I think Zucker has shown his loyalty to the team.
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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by ScoobyDoo » Thu May 30 1:48 pm

g-manpuck wrote:
Thu May 30 1:46 pm
Like Russo said in his Kessel article Zucker has to be pissed that he has been a part of two failed trade attempts by the Wild. I get that Zucker is one of a couple of trade-able assets the Wild have but I would be pissed that evidently the team you're signed with doesn't think your someone who can help this team succeed. It's business I know but where's the f*** loyalty on the teams part? I think Zucker has shown his loyalty to the team.
He certainly did. He signed a market level contract last summer. Not only that it was Fenton who put hist deal together.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by streakygopher » Thu May 30 2:27 pm

A couple years ago people thought they were good enough to go deep in the playoffs. Now, that thought is laughable.

Talent aside, after watching the first two games of the finals, I cannot see the Wild push back like Boston has against St. Louis' physical style of play. Our little band of merry men would wilt under that degree of punishment. It's not that they can't be physical but more that they can't get nasty if they need to. Brodin and Spurgeon as key defensemen, for example, appear incapable of even getting angry, much less of inflicting pain. It's too bad Seeler doesn't have their skill set.

It's nice to dream about a Stanley Cup, but each year when I watch I am reminded of how far the Wild have to go. I doubt very much that the core, high-buck guys on this team will even be part of it if it finally happens.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by team22tank » Thu May 30 3:41 pm

streakygopher wrote:
Thu May 30 2:27 pm
A couple years ago people thought they were good enough to go deep in the playoffs. Now, that thought is laughable.

Talent aside, after watching the first two games of the finals, I cannot see the Wild push back like Boston has against St. Louis' physical style of play. Our little band of merry men would wilt under that degree of punishment. It's not that they can't be physical but more that they can't get nasty if they need to. Brodin and Spurgeon as key defensemen, for example, appear incapable of even getting angry, much less of inflicting pain. It's too bad Seeler doesn't have their skill set.

It's nice to dream about a Stanley Cup, but each year when I watch I am reminded of how far the Wild have to go. I doubt very much that the core, high-buck guys on this team will even be part of it if it finally happens.
Speaking of playoffs, the 40 point/season guy people are just losing their sh*t over that the Wild are trying to move him, at least the Russo Bobos, turns into mush when the playoffs role around. About a 20 point, 10 goal guy.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=120964

Also, how much more can Russo insult Zucker's intelligence? You know the Summer will be long when he has already said 100x some combination of Zucker should be pissed, shocked, surprised the Wild are trying to move him again.

Really? The guy they tried to move once and it fell through at the last minute & Nino, Coyle, Granlund, gone. No matter Zucker's feelings on the situation I hardly doubt this is catching him off guard.

Russo seems to be having a tough time dealing with the fact that Fenton isn't going to treat him as a person on the team.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by ScoobyDoo » Thu May 30 3:45 pm

Charlie Coyle has 7 goals and 6 assists this offseason. I suppose it's his fault the Wild didn't get what they needed out of him.
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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by team22tank » Thu May 30 3:50 pm

ScoobyDoo wrote:
Thu May 30 3:45 pm
Charlie Coyle has 7 goals and 6 assists this offseason. I suppose it's his fault the Wild didn't get what they needed out of him.
It is no ones fault. Charlie isn't a Marchand, Pastrnak, Bergeron, Krecji, he is a roll player and that is why he is fitting in so well they have the big horses. The Wild don't and Charlie as we know wasn't going to be one here.

Boston was also fine when Coyle wasn't producing much in the regular a season, again they have the horses.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by ScoobyDoo » Thu May 30 3:57 pm

Well, I'm sure glad we have the horses for the new kids we brought in then. Cause the last group is almost all gone. Will be when they trade Zucker. And that group accomplished almost nothing.
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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by team22tank » Thu May 30 4:05 pm

ScoobyDoo wrote:
Thu May 30 3:57 pm
Well, I'm sure glad we have the horses for the new kids we brought in then. Cause the last group is almost all gone. Will be when they trade Zucker. And that group accomplished almost nothing.
And yet you seem very riled up the GM is going a different route?

I get it though for the fans that are 24/7 Russo's, two podcast (is there another?), him going on KFAN, the bump, Athletic and twitter its the same topics over and over and over.

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by ScoobyDoo » Thu May 30 4:08 pm

team22tank wrote:
Thu May 30 4:05 pm
ScoobyDoo wrote:
Thu May 30 3:57 pm
Well, I'm sure glad we have the horses for the new kids we brought in then. Cause the last group is almost all gone. Will be when they trade Zucker. And that group accomplished almost nothing.
And yet you seem very riled up the GM is going a different route?

I get it though for the fans that are 24/7 Russo's, two podcast (is there another?), him going on KFAN, the bump, Athletic and twitter its the same topics over and over and over.
I don't care who he trades at this point. As it looks now he's going to free me up about 205 hours of TV time next season. From what I can gather this locker room has been cancerous ever since Parise and Suter showed up. It all tracks.
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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by team22tank » Thu May 30 4:18 pm

ScoobyDoo wrote:
Thu May 30 4:08 pm
team22tank wrote:
Thu May 30 4:05 pm
ScoobyDoo wrote:
Thu May 30 3:57 pm
Well, I'm sure glad we have the horses for the new kids we brought in then. Cause the last group is almost all gone. Will be when they trade Zucker. And that group accomplished almost nothing.
And yet you seem very riled up the GM is going a different route?

I get it though for the fans that are 24/7 Russo's, two podcast (is there another?), him going on KFAN, the bump, Athletic and twitter its the same topics over and over and over.
I don't care who he trades at this point. As it looks now he's going to free me up about 205 hours of TV time next season. From what I can gather this locker room has been cancerous ever since Parise and Suter showed up. It all tracks.
Nino 41 points, Coyle 38, Zucker 42. That is those 3 production over 82 games with the Wild, that isn't to difficult to reproduce at face value. Granlund 63 is the only one immediately that you could argue will be more difficult.

Then factoring in the Cap space that was part of all the deals, if any pieces are added those become directly correlated to the moves as there is no way they could have taken place otherwise.

In one sentence you are mentioning how this past group didn't accomplish squat in the next they seem irreplaceable?

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Re: 2019-20 Wild

Post by ScoobyDoo » Thu May 30 4:24 pm

The same boat anchors are still here. This is Koivu, Parise, and Suter's team. They never elevated anyone around them and they never did anything as the "stars" of this team. They're all still here. The old kids are gone. Here come the new kids.
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also posted by sunbone "Scooby, a.k.a., Mr. Sunshine."
On my lawn chair on the ledge. Being wrong 75% of the time and loving every minute of it.

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