U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Talk about the current Gopher Hockey team....
Post Reply
User avatar
Jupiter
Bringer of Jollity
Bringer of Jollity
Posts: 14993
Joined: Wed Apr 09 10:45 am
Location: The Sticks
Has liked: 127 times
Been liked: 432 times
Age: 48
Contact:

U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Jupiter » Tue Feb 25 7:46 am

I thought is was a good idea to start a thread on this topic instead of talking about it in the regular season thread.

Here is the Athletic article that brought this to light:
https://theathletic.com/1591547/2020/02 ... used-them/

A few other articles:
https://www.therinklive.com/college/gop ... le-victims
http://www.startribune.com/u-of-m-opens-investigation-into-assistant-gophers-men-s-hockey-coach-from-1984-85/568155192/

User avatar
Beauner
Golden
Golden
Posts: 29031
Joined: Sat Feb 12 2:59 pm
Location: Minnesota
Has liked: 121 times
Been liked: 321 times
Age: 32

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Beauner » Tue Feb 25 8:32 am

Yikes
Formerly "Speedmerchant16"

User avatar
Slap Shot
Golden
Golden
Posts: 16873
Joined: Sat May 14 9:01 pm
Location: Angeles City, Philippines
Has liked: 408 times
Been liked: 420 times
Contact:

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Slap Shot » Tue Feb 25 8:41 am

Either my memory is horrible (not that up for debate :)) or nothing was known about this beyond insiders at the time. Because I sure as heck didn't really understand why BB was let go back then, and I don't remember Chico at all.
Currently under construction.

User avatar
g-manpuck
Golden
Golden
Posts: 6410
Joined: Sun Jan 21 12:39 pm
Location: Killin' em in Kato!
Has liked: 93 times
Been liked: 74 times
Age: 47

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by g-manpuck » Tue Feb 25 8:48 am

I think this Chico was just another seriously sick person in a position of power over young adults and adolescents who preyed on those individuals and when the organizations who hired him/them found out about these instances or some instances of abuse they just dismissed that person and swept the whole thing under the rug. That sick f*** Nassar did the same thing and several organizations just looked the other way. It took one strong individual to stand up and speak publicly to get people and those organizations to take notice and take action.

It makes a person wonder how many other Nassar's and Chico's are out there that were allowed to abuse those they were put in charge of for a long period of time...tens of years even. It's just f*** sick and makes my stomach turn.
-"It's not like we have to become Canadian because they won!" - my wife Chrystal

-I am the official Iowa Hawkeye Football fan of GPL

User avatar
Bonin21
Golden
Golden
Posts: 15000
Joined: Mon Mar 12 10:16 pm
Has liked: 23 times
Been liked: 199 times

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Bonin21 » Tue Feb 25 9:08 am

Kick a program when it's down. f*** sicko
Loserville, USA
108 big four seasons with no finals APPEARANCE
Times advanced in playoffs last 15 seasons: Vikings 3, Wild 2, Twins 0, Wolves 0
1967 last football conference title, 1982 last basketball conference title, 2003 last hockey national championship

User avatar
Bertogliat
Golden
Golden
Posts: 10773
Joined: Wed Apr 09 11:19 am
Location: Group W Bench
Has liked: 139 times
Been liked: 370 times
Age: 45

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Bertogliat » Tue Feb 25 9:51 am

Bonin21 wrote:
Tue Feb 25 9:08 am
Kick a program when it's down. f*** sicko
What do you mean by this?

User avatar
Jupiter
Bringer of Jollity
Bringer of Jollity
Posts: 14993
Joined: Wed Apr 09 10:45 am
Location: The Sticks
Has liked: 127 times
Been liked: 432 times
Age: 48
Contact:

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Jupiter » Tue Feb 25 10:03 am

Bertogliat wrote:
Tue Feb 25 9:51 am
Bonin21 wrote:
Tue Feb 25 9:08 am
Kick a program when it's down. f*** sicko
What do you mean by this?
I was wondering the same thing.

User avatar
Steve MN
Golden
Golden
Posts: 9232
Joined: Fri Jan 25 9:16 am
Has liked: 323 times
Been liked: 121 times
Age: 48

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Steve MN » Tue Feb 25 10:04 am

I certainly agree with the second half of the statement, the first half has me confused.
"My battery is low and it's getting dark"

"Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but, the Bible says 'love your enemy'" - Frank Sinatra

"Remember, there is no I in team"
"No, but there are six in 'Asinine Platitude Quoting Idiot'"

User avatar
Jupiter
Bringer of Jollity
Bringer of Jollity
Posts: 14993
Joined: Wed Apr 09 10:45 am
Location: The Sticks
Has liked: 127 times
Been liked: 432 times
Age: 48
Contact:

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Jupiter » Tue Feb 25 10:12 am

I think Beutow may be in a bit of trouble here.... Obviously Adrahtas is in a HEAP of trouble.... The A.D. at the time, Paul Giel, is off the hook because he's been dead since 2002... Basically anyone below him that is still alive will be looked at closely.

But this has absolutely NOTHING to do with the current team.

xyz
Rookie
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Feb 10 3:21 pm
Been liked: 1 time

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by xyz » Tue Feb 25 10:37 am

Buetow certainly doesn't look great here, having hired as an assistant a complete outsider who was a predatory pervert, but I do think it can be unfair to look at an issue only from the perspective of 2020, and not take into account when judging how people acted that it was a different time and that they didn't know then what we know now about Adrahtas specifically and in general about how people like him operate.

It's quite plausible that Buetow was unaware of exactly what Adrahtas was up to. The article depicts Buetow as being somewhat cold and distant and Adrahtas as having been closer to the players in a "buddy" role, which is not that uncommon a division of labor on a coaching staff, and predators are distressingly good at covering their tracks and hiding their behavior. And if you were an 18-year-old player in 1985, would you have been eager to go tell the head coach or an adminstrator "hey, I thought Chico was setting me up with a woman for anonymous, blindfolded sex, but it was actually something else"? Buetow certainly should have been aware something might be amiss but I find it hard to think he knew how bad it was.

As an aside, it's kind of weird to think that Buetow was only 34 years old when he was let go. He's only 11 years older than Motzko.

User avatar
JWG
Golden
Golden
Posts: 7851
Joined: Tue Apr 15 9:33 am
Location: IGH
Has liked: 64 times
Been liked: 195 times
Age: 102
Contact:

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by JWG » Tue Feb 25 10:45 am

So why was Brad let go? I struggle to believe it was for failing to win the National Title in 1982. You don't fire runner up coaches. Even if you've won 3 in the past 6-7 years.
JWG
[This space for rent]

xyz
Rookie
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Feb 10 3:21 pm
Been liked: 1 time

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by xyz » Tue Feb 25 10:59 am

Operating on an at-times faulty memory here, but I think a general sense of underachievement was the primary factor. They'd had loaded rosters in '81, '83, and '85, but lost in the '81 final and the '83 semifinal, and didn't make the Frozen Four in '85. I also seem to recall the players weren't real fond of him. If I remember correctly, the story was that he made the underclassmen take a bus ride back home to Minneapolis from Grand Forks immediately after they lost the third-place game in the '83 Frozen Four, and let the seniors stay overnight in a hotel and fly back the next day.

User avatar
Bonin21
Golden
Golden
Posts: 15000
Joined: Mon Mar 12 10:16 pm
Has liked: 23 times
Been liked: 199 times

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Bonin21 » Tue Feb 25 11:06 am

Jupiter wrote:
Tue Feb 25 10:03 am
Bertogliat wrote:
Tue Feb 25 9:51 am
Bonin21 wrote:
Tue Feb 25 9:08 am
Kick a program when it's down. f*** sicko
What do you mean by this?
I was wondering the same thing.
I just meant not a ton of good news for the program in the last five years, but this could have just as easily come out in 2014 so it doesn't really matter.
Loserville, USA
108 big four seasons with no finals APPEARANCE
Times advanced in playoffs last 15 seasons: Vikings 3, Wild 2, Twins 0, Wolves 0
1967 last football conference title, 1982 last basketball conference title, 2003 last hockey national championship

User avatar
frozen4champs
Golden
Golden
Posts: 6141
Joined: Fri Feb 11 9:52 am
Location: On the farm
Has liked: 224 times
Been liked: 300 times
Age: 54

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by frozen4champs » Tue Feb 25 11:10 am

JWG wrote:
Tue Feb 25 10:45 am
So why was Brad let go? I struggle to believe it was for failing to win the National Title in 1982. You don't fire runner up coaches. Even if you've won 3 in the past 6-7 years.
Lack of institutional control is my bet why he was canned. He may have known about it and did not deal with it properly or swiftly enough. Just a horrible situation.

User avatar
SkiUMahLaw
Golden
Golden
Posts: 2059
Joined: Sun Feb 13 11:14 am
Location: New Prague
Has liked: 52 times
Been liked: 50 times
Age: 41
Contact:

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by SkiUMahLaw » Tue Feb 25 11:32 am

JWG wrote:
Tue Feb 25 10:45 am
So why was Brad let go? I struggle to believe it was for failing to win the National Title in 1982. You don't fire runner up coaches. Even if you've won 3 in the past 6-7 years.
I thought it had more to do with rumors of his relationship with a female college student, but it may have also had something to do with this assistant and not enough oversight.

There are lots of questions to look at here- did the U have knowledge that this occurred in the past with this guy? If not, how should they anticipate it occurring?

Giel handled it in the way that was common back then--- "get out of here." While that would be inappropriate today, at the time, unless there was some specific law being broken (which I don't know if they were on the books by then), then it was handled as well as could be expected at the time. Of course we would expect differently today; there are mandatory reporter questions (if any of the athletes were minors) and position of power questions.

Unlike Penn State, which knowingly and continually covered things up over a long period of time, it appears that the U did not allow that to occur during his short tenure.

User avatar
Bertogliat
Golden
Golden
Posts: 10773
Joined: Wed Apr 09 11:19 am
Location: Group W Bench
Has liked: 139 times
Been liked: 370 times
Age: 45

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Bertogliat » Tue Feb 25 12:13 pm

SkiUMahLaw wrote:
Tue Feb 25 11:32 am
JWG wrote:
Tue Feb 25 10:45 am
So why was Brad let go? I struggle to believe it was for failing to win the National Title in 1982. You don't fire runner up coaches. Even if you've won 3 in the past 6-7 years.
I thought it had more to do with rumors of his relationship with a female college student, but it may have also had something to do with this assistant and not enough oversight.

There are lots of questions to look at here- did the U have knowledge that this occurred in the past with this guy? If not, how should they anticipate it occurring?

Giel handled it in the way that was common back then--- "get out of here." While that would be inappropriate today, at the time, unless there was some specific law being broken (which I don't know if they were on the books by then), then it was handled as well as could be expected at the time. Of course we would expect differently today; there are mandatory reporter questions (if any of the athletes were minors) and position of power questions.

Unlike Penn State, which knowingly and continually covered things up over a long period of time, it appears that the U did not allow that to occur during his short tenure.
It doesn't sound like Giel even bothered to go through an investigation. Kicked him to the curb. Boom gone.

“I told him the story just like I’m telling you,” Kellin said. “Paul Giel ended up firing him. He told me, ‘Chico’s outta here. You’ll never see him again.'”

User avatar
Iceburg
Golden
Golden
Posts: 7400
Joined: Fri Jan 09 8:15 am
Location: Maplewood
Has liked: 16 times
Been liked: 32 times

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Iceburg » Tue Feb 25 12:53 pm

Going by my fuzzy memory, Adrahtas was kind of a hot young coach who came out of Chicago as hockey was really taking off there. Don't recall where he was coaching before getting the Gopher job. When he got released it was quick and kind of quiet. I always kind of guessed it was some recruiting violation thing.

As far as Buetow goes, I think the general opinion at the time was that he was hurt by Herbie's shadow and the team was underperforming. I don't think any one incident was suspected by the public st the time.
Image

Retired Thread Police

xyz
Rookie
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Feb 10 3:21 pm
Been liked: 1 time

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by xyz » Tue Feb 25 1:15 pm

He had been hired by Buetow, who wasn't going to be around; Adrahtas was still under contract, and resigned before Woog was actually named coach (the picture of him with recruits in the article in The Athletic was taken during that interim period). The fact that he wasn't going to be kept by the new guy anyway likely provided some cover, in his warped mind. His departure was called a resignation publicly, although one suspects he was told he was resigning.

User avatar
Bertogliat
Golden
Golden
Posts: 10773
Joined: Wed Apr 09 11:19 am
Location: Group W Bench
Has liked: 139 times
Been liked: 370 times
Age: 45

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Bertogliat » Tue Feb 25 2:41 pm

xyz wrote:
Tue Feb 25 1:15 pm
He had been hired by Buetow, who wasn't going to be around; Adrahtas was still under contract, and resigned before Woog was actually named coach (the picture of him with recruits in the article in The Athletic was taken during that interim period). The fact that he wasn't going to be kept by the new guy anyway likely provided some cover, in his warped mind. His departure was called a resignation publicly, although one suspects he was told he was resigning.
This usually happens when an employer isn't going to pay benefits, severance, remainder contract.

User avatar
thinkbui
Veteran
Posts: 10328
Joined: Tue Mar 08 12:56 pm
Location: MN and I'm never going to move out of it again.
Been liked: 38 times
Age: 37

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by thinkbui » Tue Feb 25 3:34 pm

I don't think "shocking" would do justice to these allegations. As much as I've interacted with Athletics folks in the past 2 decades, I stay aloof enough to still believe the facade that they work so hard to maintain because I want to believe that facade even knowing that there's periodic drama just like any other organization made up of humans, so when something this serious comes out...Mother of Mercy...
Image

"Are you the LEGO guy?"
--Gopher Hockey Cheer Chicks, 27 April 2006

If Wisconsin-Madison is the state's most prestigious university and the state itself is known as The Dairy State, does that mean UW is Bovine University?

User avatar
SkiUMahLaw
Golden
Golden
Posts: 2059
Joined: Sun Feb 13 11:14 am
Location: New Prague
Has liked: 52 times
Been liked: 50 times
Age: 41
Contact:

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by SkiUMahLaw » Tue Feb 25 9:12 pm

thinkbui wrote:
Tue Feb 25 3:34 pm
I don't think "shocking" would do justice to these allegations. As much as I've interacted with Athletics folks in the past 2 decades, I stay aloof enough to still believe the facade that they work so hard to maintain because I want to believe that facade even knowing that there's periodic drama just like any other organization made up of humans, so when something this serious comes out...Mother of Mercy...
That was an odd time for Gopher sports.

Luther Darville was causing issues for football
Gopher basketball had a rape scandal in Madison that caused Jim Dutcher to resign
Buetow and Chico in hockey

Despite the Voelz years and the Clem Haskins conundrum, it has come a long way in 35 years....

User avatar
thinkbui
Veteran
Posts: 10328
Joined: Tue Mar 08 12:56 pm
Location: MN and I'm never going to move out of it again.
Been liked: 38 times
Age: 37

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by thinkbui » Tue Feb 25 10:47 pm

SkiUMahLaw wrote:
Tue Feb 25 9:12 pm
thinkbui wrote:
Tue Feb 25 3:34 pm
I don't think "shocking" would do justice to these allegations. As much as I've interacted with Athletics folks in the past 2 decades, I stay aloof enough to still believe the facade that they work so hard to maintain because I want to believe that facade even knowing that there's periodic drama just like any other organization made up of humans, so when something this serious comes out...Mother of Mercy...
That was an odd time for Gopher sports.

Luther Darville was causing issues for football
Gopher basketball had a rape scandal in Madison that caused Jim Dutcher to resign
Buetow and Chico in hockey

Despite the Voelz years and the Clem Haskins conundrum, it has come a long way in 35 years....
Well, the Teague years too plus the recent football scandal that had more to do with the culture he brought than anything Coyle did.
Image

"Are you the LEGO guy?"
--Gopher Hockey Cheer Chicks, 27 April 2006

If Wisconsin-Madison is the state's most prestigious university and the state itself is known as The Dairy State, does that mean UW is Bovine University?

User avatar
Bonin21
Golden
Golden
Posts: 15000
Joined: Mon Mar 12 10:16 pm
Has liked: 23 times
Been liked: 199 times

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Bonin21 » Tue Feb 25 11:19 pm

35 years is a long time you better figure something out in that much time
Loserville, USA
108 big four seasons with no finals APPEARANCE
Times advanced in playoffs last 15 seasons: Vikings 3, Wild 2, Twins 0, Wolves 0
1967 last football conference title, 1982 last basketball conference title, 2003 last hockey national championship

User avatar
g-manpuck
Golden
Golden
Posts: 6410
Joined: Sun Jan 21 12:39 pm
Location: Killin' em in Kato!
Has liked: 93 times
Been liked: 74 times
Age: 47

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by g-manpuck » Wed Feb 26 7:31 am

Don't forget about the fall from grace of the wrestling program and their little drug business.
-"It's not like we have to become Canadian because they won!" - my wife Chrystal

-I am the official Iowa Hawkeye Football fan of GPL

User avatar
Zwak
Golden
Golden
Posts: 10367
Joined: Mon Nov 13 6:09 pm
Location: South St. Paul
Has liked: 169 times
Been liked: 158 times
Age: 54

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Zwak » Wed Feb 26 9:52 am

Pioneer Press has an interview with former Gopher Tony Kellin. He corroborates some of the accusations

https://www.twincities.com/2020/02/25/f ... ant-coach/
GPL's official source of trivia.

Gopho Sapiens
Newbie
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Mar 02 6:54 am

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Gopho Sapiens » Fri Feb 28 5:29 pm

At the time, I didn't understand the U not renewing Buetows contract. This potentially casts a different light on the situation.

mlhouse
Rookie
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Dec 20 7:26 pm
Been liked: 3 times

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by mlhouse » Mon Mar 09 10:11 pm

What is the point of all of this? 1985 is 35 years ago. Every single person involved is no longer involved in the program, with Brad Buetow being fired that same year, 1985 and replaced by Coach Woog.

It is highly doubtful that there was an actual crime committed, even if there was the statute of limitation on all criminal and civil crimes have long since expired, and even if that were not the case, gathering evidence to even suggest a crime after all of these decades is beyond reasonable.

There isn't anyone to charge. There isn't anyone to fire. And, while I believe the stories, there isn't any real proof to drag an individual through the mud, at great expense (do you know how much the law firm the U hired charges?), this is a story that should appear in the press and does not need this investigation.

User avatar
Jupiter
Bringer of Jollity
Bringer of Jollity
Posts: 14993
Joined: Wed Apr 09 10:45 am
Location: The Sticks
Has liked: 127 times
Been liked: 432 times
Age: 48
Contact:

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Jupiter » Mon Mar 09 10:56 pm


User avatar
Bertogliat
Golden
Golden
Posts: 10773
Joined: Wed Apr 09 11:19 am
Location: Group W Bench
Has liked: 139 times
Been liked: 370 times
Age: 45

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Bertogliat » Tue Mar 10 9:21 am

mlhouse wrote:
Mon Mar 09 10:11 pm
What is the point of all of this? 1985 is 35 years ago. Every single person involved is no longer involved in the program, with Brad Buetow being fired that same year, 1985 and replaced by Coach Woog.

It is highly doubtful that there was an actual crime committed, even if there was the statute of limitation on all criminal and civil crimes have long since expired, and even if that were not the case, gathering evidence to even suggest a crime after all of these decades is beyond reasonable.

There isn't anyone to charge. There isn't anyone to fire. And, while I believe the stories, there isn't any real proof to drag an individual through the mud, at great expense (do you know how much the law firm the U hired charges?), this is a story that should appear in the press and does not need this investigation.
Maybe I should just let Jup's response speak for us all, but I can't help myself.

You investigate these accusations if for nothing else than to learn from them and put in preventative actions in an effort to keep something like this from happening again. There have been an absurd number of similar accusations across the country/world where athletes have been subjected to unwanted sexual contact from a person of influence over their future. This cycle has to stop.

I can't believe I had to spell that out.

mlhouse
Rookie
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Dec 20 7:26 pm
Been liked: 3 times

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by mlhouse » Wed Mar 11 7:18 pm

Bertogliat wrote:
Tue Mar 10 9:21 am
mlhouse wrote:
Mon Mar 09 10:11 pm
What is the point of all of this? 1985 is 35 years ago. Every single person involved is no longer involved in the program, with Brad Buetow being fired that same year, 1985 and replaced by Coach Woog.

It is highly doubtful that there was an actual crime committed, even if there was the statute of limitation on all criminal and civil crimes have long since expired, and even if that were not the case, gathering evidence to even suggest a crime after all of these decades is beyond reasonable.

There isn't anyone to charge. There isn't anyone to fire. And, while I believe the stories, there isn't any real proof to drag an individual through the mud, at great expense (do you know how much the law firm the U hired charges?), this is a story that should appear in the press and does not need this investigation.
Maybe I should just let Jup's response speak for us all, but I can't help myself.

You investigate these accusations if for nothing else than to learn from them and put in preventative actions in an effort to keep something like this from happening again. There have been an absurd number of similar accusations across the country/world where athletes have been subjected to unwanted sexual contact from a person of influence over their future. This cycle has to stop.

I can't believe I had to spell that out.
BS. These incidents are more than 35 years old and there isn't anything to learn from them. To "learn from them" and to "stop the cycle", the information that is developed would have to lead to policy changes at the University. These incidents more than 3 decades old aren't going to change a thing and if the University hasn't put proper policies in place about these issues with all of the "absurd number of similar accusations across the country/world", then that is an entirely different problem altogether. If there was something actual that could be done, firing some of those who covered the charges up for example, it would be different. But these people are long gone.

Further, and although I tend to believe the stories, dragging someone through the mud more than 35 years later simply has no value. There are reasons for statutes of limitations on criminal and civil charges because after certain periods of time people accused of things cannot adequately defend themselves from the charges.

At the same time, I am not claiming that sleeping dogs should just lie. The media has presented the case and that should be sufficient to bring it to light.

Lastly, as an alumni who was on campus in the mid-1980s the world's view of homosexuality has changed significantly since then and that issue cannot be removed from this story. I had several friends who were gay and how they were treated was much different than it is today. When I was on campus one of the Gopher football players committed suicide in 1983, Sid wrote a sad commentary talking about his fiance and family, but the kid was gay and couldn't live with the conflict. Not saying this changes what may have happened, but just to demonstrate it was a much different world.

User avatar
Superstar
Golden
Golden
Posts: 4580
Joined: Tue Feb 15 12:21 pm
Has liked: 74 times
Been liked: 22 times

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Superstar » Wed Mar 11 9:03 pm

Stop. Just stop.

User avatar
mjarz02
Golden
Golden
Posts: 1709
Joined: Wed Jan 25 12:54 pm
Location: Minneapolis
Has liked: 10 times
Age: 36

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by mjarz02 » Wed Mar 11 9:08 pm

mlhouse wrote:
Wed Mar 11 7:18 pm
Bertogliat wrote:
Tue Mar 10 9:21 am
mlhouse wrote:
Mon Mar 09 10:11 pm
What is the point of all of this? 1985 is 35 years ago. Every single person involved is no longer involved in the program, with Brad Buetow being fired that same year, 1985 and replaced by Coach Woog.

It is highly doubtful that there was an actual crime committed, even if there was the statute of limitation on all criminal and civil crimes have long since expired, and even if that were not the case, gathering evidence to even suggest a crime after all of these decades is beyond reasonable.

There isn't anyone to charge. There isn't anyone to fire. And, while I believe the stories, there isn't any real proof to drag an individual through the mud, at great expense (do you know how much the law firm the U hired charges?), this is a story that should appear in the press and does not need this investigation.
Maybe I should just let Jup's response speak for us all, but I can't help myself.

You investigate these accusations if for nothing else than to learn from them and put in preventative actions in an effort to keep something like this from happening again. There have been an absurd number of similar accusations across the country/world where athletes have been subjected to unwanted sexual contact from a person of influence over their future. This cycle has to stop.

I can't believe I had to spell that out.
BS. These incidents are more than 35 years old and there isn't anything to learn from them. To "learn from them" and to "stop the cycle", the information that is developed would have to lead to policy changes at the University. These incidents more than 3 decades old aren't going to change a thing and if the University hasn't put proper policies in place about these issues with all of the "absurd number of similar accusations across the country/world", then that is an entirely different problem altogether. If there was something actual that could be done, firing some of those who covered the charges up for example, it would be different. But these people are long gone.

Further, and although I tend to believe the stories, dragging someone through the mud more than 35 years later simply has no value. There are reasons for statutes of limitations on criminal and civil charges because after certain periods of time people accused of things cannot adequately defend themselves from the charges.

At the same time, I am not claiming that sleeping dogs should just lie. The media has presented the case and that should be sufficient to bring it to light.

Lastly, as an alumni who was on campus in the mid-1980s the world's view of homosexuality has changed significantly since then and that issue cannot be removed from this story. I had several friends who were gay and how they were treated was much different than it is today. When I was on campus one of the Gopher football players committed suicide in 1983, Sid wrote a sad commentary talking about his fiance and family, but the kid was gay and couldn't live with the conflict. Not saying this changes what may have happened, but just to demonstrate it was a much different world.
This story has nothing to do with homosexuality...Might want to read up on why people sexually abuse others.

User avatar
Greyeagle
Moderator
Posts: 19757
Joined: Wed Apr 09 12:12 pm
Location: Capital City
Has liked: 987 times
Been liked: 670 times
Age: 54

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Greyeagle » Wed Mar 11 9:09 pm

mlhouse wrote:
Wed Mar 11 7:18 pm
Lastly, as an alumni who was on campus in the mid-1980s the world's view of homosexuality has changed significantly since then and that issue cannot be removed from this story.
If you think this is a homosexuality issue you really are living in a cave.
Row The Boat! Ski-U-MAH! Go Gophers!

Maize
Veteran
Posts: 2753
Joined: Tue Sep 20 10:15 am
Has liked: 3 times
Been liked: 64 times

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Maize » Wed Mar 11 9:17 pm

It was not an easy competition to be one of the wildest things I've read today, but here we are.

User avatar
Cowgirl
Golden
Golden
Posts: 7879
Joined: Thu Feb 24 12:43 pm
Location: Trying to pee a goal!
Has liked: 404 times
Been liked: 500 times
Age: 33

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Cowgirl » Wed Mar 11 9:38 pm

I don’t know why this thread even needed to be created. Can it please go away?

User avatar
MATT
Golden
Golden
Posts: 3691
Joined: Fri Feb 02 10:41 pm
Location: North Carolina
Has liked: 37 times
Been liked: 59 times
Age: 35

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by MATT » Wed Mar 11 10:10 pm

Cowgirl wrote:
Wed Mar 11 9:38 pm
I don’t know why this thread even needed to be created. Can it please go away?
Yeah, who created this thread? Get the pitchforks! :mrgreen:

User avatar
Greyeagle
Moderator
Posts: 19757
Joined: Wed Apr 09 12:12 pm
Location: Capital City
Has liked: 987 times
Been liked: 670 times
Age: 54

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Greyeagle » Wed Mar 11 10:11 pm

Cowgirl wrote:
Wed Mar 11 9:38 pm
I don’t know why this thread even needed to be created. Can it please go away?
If Jup had not created this thread the conversation would have spilled into the 2020 season thread.
Jupiter wrote:
Tue Feb 25 7:46 am
I thought is was a good idea to start a thread on this topic instead of talking about it in the regular season thread.
Row The Boat! Ski-U-MAH! Go Gophers!

User avatar
Cowgirl
Golden
Golden
Posts: 7879
Joined: Thu Feb 24 12:43 pm
Location: Trying to pee a goal!
Has liked: 404 times
Been liked: 500 times
Age: 33

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Cowgirl » Wed Mar 11 10:16 pm

Greyeagle wrote:
Wed Mar 11 10:11 pm
Cowgirl wrote:
Wed Mar 11 9:38 pm
I don’t know why this thread even needed to be created. Can it please go away?
If Jup had not created this thread the conversation would have spilled into the 2020 season thread.
Jupiter wrote:
Tue Feb 25 7:46 am
I thought is was a good idea to start a thread on this topic instead of talking about it in the regular season thread.
Fair point.

User avatar
Slap Shot
Golden
Golden
Posts: 16873
Joined: Sat May 14 9:01 pm
Location: Angeles City, Philippines
Has liked: 408 times
Been liked: 420 times
Contact:

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by Slap Shot » Thu Mar 12 1:35 am

mlhouse wrote:
Wed Mar 11 7:18 pm
Bertogliat wrote:
Tue Mar 10 9:21 am
mlhouse wrote:
Mon Mar 09 10:11 pm
What is the point of all of this? 1985 is 35 years ago. Every single person involved is no longer involved in the program, with Brad Buetow being fired that same year, 1985 and replaced by Coach Woog.

It is highly doubtful that there was an actual crime committed, even if there was the statute of limitation on all criminal and civil crimes have long since expired, and even if that were not the case, gathering evidence to even suggest a crime after all of these decades is beyond reasonable.

There isn't anyone to charge. There isn't anyone to fire. And, while I believe the stories, there isn't any real proof to drag an individual through the mud, at great expense (do you know how much the law firm the U hired charges?), this is a story that should appear in the press and does not need this investigation.
Maybe I should just let Jup's response speak for us all, but I can't help myself.

You investigate these accusations if for nothing else than to learn from them and put in preventative actions in an effort to keep something like this from happening again. There have been an absurd number of similar accusations across the country/world where athletes have been subjected to unwanted sexual contact from a person of influence over their future. This cycle has to stop.

I can't believe I had to spell that out.
BS. These incidents are more than 35 years old and there isn't anything to learn from them. To "learn from them" and to "stop the cycle", the information that is developed would have to lead to policy changes at the University. These incidents more than 3 decades old aren't going to change a thing and if the University hasn't put proper policies in place about these issues with all of the "absurd number of similar accusations across the country/world", then that is an entirely different problem altogether. If there was something actual that could be done, firing some of those who covered the charges up for example, it would be different. But these people are long gone.

Further, and although I tend to believe the stories, dragging someone through the mud more than 35 years later simply has no value. There are reasons for statutes of limitations on criminal and civil charges because after certain periods of time people accused of things cannot adequately defend themselves from the charges.

At the same time, I am not claiming that sleeping dogs should just lie. The media has presented the case and that should be sufficient to bring it to light.

Lastly, as an alumni who was on campus in the mid-1980s the world's view of homosexuality has changed significantly since then and that issue cannot be removed from this story. I had several friends who were gay and how they were treated was much different than it is today. When I was on campus one of the Gopher football players committed suicide in 1983, Sid wrote a sad commentary talking about his fiance and family, but the kid was gay and couldn't live with the conflict. Not saying this changes what may have happened, but just to demonstrate it was a much different world.
Image
Currently under construction.

mlhouse
Rookie
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Dec 20 7:26 pm
Been liked: 3 times

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by mlhouse » Thu Mar 12 7:00 pm

Superstar wrote:
Wed Mar 11 9:03 pm
Stop. Just stop.
I get that you cannot explain one reason why this should be pursued. YOu just need to "stop" the conversation.

1. There is NOTHING to be gained by any investigation. No one can be fired. No one can be prevented from being hired. NO one can be charged with criminal conduct or sued in civil court. If the University of Minnesota already does not have policy with respect to these issues then that is their own backwardness. It is a wasted investigation, wasted money, spent on doing nothing but drag people through the mud.

2. This is different from stating that the media should not make a story of this and get the facts out in public if that is necessary. But, as I have said, there are reasons why we have statute of limitations. It is impossible to defend oneself after 35 years against general charges such as these.

3. Claiming that there isn't a homosexuality perspective to this is again false. The social climate of the U of M in 1985 is much different than it was today.

User avatar
MNGophers29
Golden
Golden
Posts: 7080
Joined: Sat Dec 30 11:24 pm
Location: Fargo via Grand Rapids, Bemidji, Madison WI, East Grand Forks.
Has liked: 18 times
Been liked: 148 times
Age: 41

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by MNGophers29 » Thu Mar 12 7:10 pm

First, I get both sides of the argument, I truly do. Part of me feels the that the outcome of an investigation won’t result in a punishment that fit the crime and that isn’t going to make anyone feel better. That being said, I think the U owes it to the victims to do their part by looking into it, even if nothing comes from it.

I think the biggest takeaway here is that there is a differing of opinions and so far the discussion has been civil, but when some here don’t agree with someone or there is a different approach taken in looking at it, they get crucified for thinking a particular way about it.

It’s not like he/she said “they deserved what they got”. Just offered another viewpoint on the subject.
"Hard work will beat talent, if talent doesn't work hard"
Doug Woog - 1990

This quote was written on the chalkboard in a lockeroom in the old Ralph Engelstad arena my Squirt team used the day after the Gophers used it and came into the game ranked #1 in the nation and lost 6-1 to a second rate Whioux team.

Overhead on SiouxSports.com - Why does every thread always turn into a "Gopher" thread? Is there a secret infatuation with them?

User avatar
NYC Gopher fan
Golden
Golden
Posts: 1560
Joined: Mon Jan 21 9:15 pm
Has liked: 54 times
Been liked: 32 times

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by NYC Gopher fan » Thu Mar 12 8:05 pm

My family has someone who was on that team.

They are supportive of this investigation.

mlhouse
Rookie
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Dec 20 7:26 pm
Been liked: 3 times

Re: U opens investigation into 1984-85 assistant...

Post by mlhouse » Sat Mar 14 10:21 am

MNGophers29 wrote:
Thu Mar 12 7:10 pm
First, I get both sides of the argument, I truly do. Part of me feels the that the outcome of an investigation won’t result in a punishment that fit the crime and that isn’t going to make anyone feel better. That being said, I think the U owes it to the victims to do their part by looking into it, even if nothing comes from it.

I think the biggest takeaway here is that there is a differing of opinions and so far the discussion has been civil, but when some here don’t agree with someone or there is a different approach taken in looking at it, they get crucified for thinking a particular way about it.

It’s not like he/she said “they deserved what they got”. Just offered another viewpoint on the subject.
At least you are open minded, but lets make this clear.

THERE IS NOTHING THIS INVESTIGATION CAN DO TO RESULT IN A PUNISHMENT. These events happened more than 35 years ago. The hockey staff involved was fired that year, in 1985. Every other single person involved: administration, AD, atheltic department have long ago left the University and some are not even still living today (and would not have a chance to defend themselves).

The statute of limitations has expired for all criminal charges and civil cases. So, you cannot charge anyone with a crime or sue the person for any damages.

So, what is the point of the University of Minnesota's investigation ?

Is it to change University of MN policy? If this is the case then the administration should be ashamed of themselves since they are way behind the times.

Is it to find out the truth of the matter? I think the media story is enough to bring out the truth. What they are going to find it was a different era and this has the gay dimension that in 1985 it simply wasn't the same as it is today. They slid this under the rug because that is what these organizations did with these issues in 1985. What is this investigation going to do to change that? Fire Brad Buetow again? Hang him in effigy? Create a holiday were classes close down and everyone goes to the U Mall and chants death slogans against him?

Or is it someone's mission to just create this huge national embarrassment to the program over events that happened before all of the current players were ever born involving U of M coaches/administrators that are long gone?

Post Reply