2019-2020 Wild Season

[ScoobyDoo]

Twitter blowing up shocked that Zucker wasn't part of this deal.

[streakygopher]

Charlie Coyle has 7 goals and 6 assists this offseason. I suppose it's his fault the Wild didn't get what they needed out of him.

It is no ones fault. Charlie isn't a Marchand, Pastrnak, Bergeron, Krecji, he is a roll player and that is why he is fitting in so well they have the big horses. The Wild don't and Charlie as we know wasn't going to be one here.

Boston was also fine when Coyle wasn't producing much in the regular a season, again they have the horses.

Couple observations...Coyle may be a journeyman role player but he's been better than that this post season. He's been hard to play against and is noticeable in a good way everywhere on the ice. The kid doesn't seem to have the knack for scoring, which will probably hold him back, but he's been a nice add for Boston.

Marchand is really good when he's on, but he's made some gawdawfully bad decisions in the past game or two...bone headed even.

[Handyman]

Hey people loved Mauer and he was no different.

[Bertogliat]

Hey people loved Mauer and he was no different.

Mauer was no different than who?

[JC65]

If this is true it's frightening (and there's no reason not to believe Russo)

[J22]

If this is true it's frightening (and there's no reason not to believe Russo)

You're not paying attention if you really think that about Russo.

[Bigbeer]

Charlie Coyle has 7 goals and 6 assists this offseason. I suppose it's his fault the Wild didn't get what they needed out of him.

It is no ones fault. Charlie isn't a Marchand, Pastrnak, Bergeron, Krecji, he is a roll player and that is why he is fitting in so well they have the big horses. The Wild don't and Charlie as we know wasn't going to be one here.

Boston was also fine when Coyle wasn't producing much in the regular a season, again they have the horses.

Couple observations...Coyle may be a journeyman role player but he's been better than that this post season. He's been hard to play against and is noticeable in a good way everywhere on the ice. The kid doesn't seem to have the knack for scoring, which will probably hold him back, but he's been a nice add for Boston.

Marchand is really good when he's on, but he's made some gawdawfully bad decisions in the past game or two...bone headed even.

Coyle is in a career making...actually lifetime making situation, he couldn’t possibly be more motivated to succeed in the Finals in this situation.

[trixR4kids]

If you are counting on your wings to play shutdown defense all of the time, then you have bigger troubles on your roster. They obviously have some responsibility in the defensive zone as you can't play 4 on 5 there, but those are your talents that you have to let loose a bit. I think the problem with Vanek was that he wasn't able to sustain much offense without lots of helpers. Kessel won't have that issue and he will make other players around him better.

$ - https://theathletic.com/991843/2019/05/ ... er-sports/

UAA's favorite son Justin Bourne wrote about why hockey analysis is hard work and dropped an interesting nugget in there that I thought was worth sharing.

"We as fans are certainly entitled to having our journalists and reporters doing a proper amount of work before sharing their opinions, but they can’t just be based on numbers. A stat like single-game Corsi is, to use internet speak, often insanely bad (I feel wingers in particular here are at the mercy of small sample events out of their control)."

This is so true... so little of a minus can usually be attributed to wings. They're in there to create chances, ignite chaos. Something to keep in mind.

Well yeah, if anyone is extrapolating a lot out of a single game stat they’re probably doing it wrong. Anything can happen in a single game of hockey.

That said nobody serious uses stats like corsi in that way.

Also at the Russo tidbit.

[ScoobyDoo]

It's funny when real stats blow the conventional wisdom out of the water. Oh, and THIS IS NOT RUSSO.

With Zucker on the ice, the Wild create more dangerous opportunities than the Golden Knights with Marchessault or the Penguins with Kessel, but the even larger difference is in their own zone. Zucker’s play defensively is a net positive while the latter two seem to bleed chances, specifically Kessel who has very much earned his reputation as a weak defensive player over the last few seasons. The points from Kessel and Marchessault are nice but don’t mean much if the two just end up giving it back the other way. The difference between the expected goals rate for Zucker and the other two is massive and more than makes up for the difference in production. Even by actual goals, the Wild are at plus-0.89 per 60 with Zucker on the ice over the last three seasons, while Marchessault is at plus-0.36 and Kessel is at plus-0.32.

https://theathletic.com/1004393/2019/05 ... wNSxCImjYE

[g-manpuck]

It's funny when real stats blow the conventional wisdom out of the water. Oh, and THIS IS NOT RUSSO.

With Zucker on the ice, the Wild create more dangerous opportunities than the Golden Knights with Marchessault or the Penguins with Kessel, but the even larger difference is in their own zone. Zucker’s play defensively is a net positive while the latter two seem to bleed chances, specifically Kessel who has very much earned his reputation as a weak defensive player over the last few seasons. The points from Kessel and Marchessault are nice but don’t mean much if the two just end up giving it back the other way. The difference between the expected goals rate for Zucker and the other two is massive and more than makes up for the difference in production. Even by actual goals, the Wild are at plus-0.89 per 60 with Zucker on the ice over the last three seasons, while Marchessault is at plus-0.36 and Kessel is at plus-0.32.

https://theathletic.com/1004393/2019/05 ... wNSxCImjYE

I read this article this morning as well, like you said the stats say a lot if you want to put faith behind them. Most professional leagues are stat driven to equal success and while stats like +/- are laughable what this author pointed out statwise makes good points. IMO

[team22tank]

Interesting that he talks about all the weapons that the Knights and Pens have and that is a big reason that Kessel and Marc put up the points. But doesn't discuss that the Wild have been a top defensive team the last 7 years and their top 4 D are right up there with the best in the league and how that might be a positive for a player's defensive success.

Also, notes the "failure" of the Nino trade based on production. Fair enough, but just like Kessel and Marc, Nino got to go play with a big time stud in Aho. But then based on the same criteria doesn't even mention the Donato trade using the same focus, 16 points for Donato in 22 games, quite impressive given the Wild were ravaged with injury at the time and had many new members to the team.

Good article but far from a complete picture.

[Handyman]

Hey people loved Mauer and he was no different.

Mauer was no different than who?

Than the players Scooby is now talking about weighing down the team. (Parise, Suter and Koivu)

[Handyman]

Charlie Coyle has 7 goals and 6 assists this offseason. I suppose it's his fault the Wild didn't get what they needed out of him.

It is no ones fault. Charlie isn't a Marchand, Pastrnak, Bergeron, Krecji, he is a roll player and that is why he is fitting in so well they have the big horses. The Wild don't and Charlie as we know wasn't going to be one here.

Boston was also fine when Coyle wasn't producing much in the regular a season, again they have the horses.

Couple observations...Coyle may be a journeyman role player but he's been better than that this post season. He's been hard to play against and is noticeable in a good way everywhere on the ice. The kid doesn't seem to have the knack for scoring, which will probably hold him back, but he's been a nice add for Boston.

Marchand is really good when he's on, but he's made some gawdawfully bad decisions in the past game or two...bone headed even.

It helps when you have the squad Boston has. It also isnt like he didnt have the chance to prove he was a great playoff player here...in 44 games he had 15 points. His ascension is more to do with Boston being great than him being better.

[ScoobyDoo]

It helps when you have the squad Boston has. It also isnt like he didnt have the chance to prove he was a great playoff player here...in 44 games he had 15 points. His ascension is more to do with Boston being great than him being better.

Sure. When did Koivu, Suter, or Parise elevate anyone around them? Ever.

[team22tank]

It helps when you have the squad Boston has. It also isnt like he didnt have the chance to prove he was a great playoff player here...in 44 games he had 15 points. His ascension is more to do with Boston being great than him being better.

Sure. When did Koivu, Suter, or Parise elevate anyone around them? Ever.

I don't think Fletcher envisioned Coyle, Nino, Zucker and company all needing their hands held by Parise, Suter and Koivu (as you thing is needed) as 6th/7th year pros in their mid/late 20s.

In hindsight maybe Fletcher could have made a move but never did?

Of course it is only entertaining if there are heroes and villains and Russo understands this to a T and why he has such a following of Bobos.

The reality is there is a much more complete answer on all fronts. But common sense isn't as entertaining.

[team22tank]

Charlie Coyle has 7 goals and 6 assists this offseason. I suppose it's his fault the Wild didn't get what they needed out of him.

It is no ones fault. Charlie isn't a Marchand, Pastrnak, Bergeron, Krecji, he is a roll player and that is why he is fitting in so well they have the big horses. The Wild don't and Charlie as we know wasn't going to be one here.

Boston was also fine when Coyle wasn't producing much in the regular a season, again they have the horses.

Couple observations...Coyle may be a journeyman role player but he's been better than that this post season. He's been hard to play against and is noticeable in a good way everywhere on the ice. The kid doesn't seem to have the knack for scoring, which will probably hold him back, but he's been a nice add for Boston.

Marchand is really good when he's on, but he's made some gawdawfully bad decisions in the past game or two...bone headed even.

It helps when you have the squad Boston has. It also isnt like he didnt have the chance to prove he was a great playoff player here...in 44 games he had 15 points. His ascension is more to do with Boston being great than him being better.

That is to level headed of a response, not entertaining.

Coyle rules, Parise, Suter, Koivu suck, throw in Oates as well.

[ScoobyDoo]

Charlie Coyle has 7 goals and 6 assists this offseason. I suppose it's his fault the Wild didn't get what they needed out of him.

It is no ones fault. Charlie isn't a Marchand, Pastrnak, Bergeron, Krecji, he is a roll player and that is why he is fitting in so well they have the big horses. The Wild don't and Charlie as we know wasn't going to be one here.

Boston was also fine when Coyle wasn't producing much in the regular a season, again they have the horses.

Couple observations...Coyle may be a journeyman role player but he's been better than that this post season. He's been hard to play against and is noticeable in a good way everywhere on the ice. The kid doesn't seem to have the knack for scoring, which will probably hold him back, but he's been a nice add for Boston.

Marchand is really good when he's on, but he's made some gawdawfully bad decisions in the past game or two...bone headed even.

It helps when you have the squad Boston has. It also isnt like he didnt have the chance to prove he was a great playoff player here...in 44 games he had 15 points. His ascension is more to do with Boston being great than him being better.

That is to level headed of a response, not entertaining.

Coyle rules, Parise, Suter, Koivu suck, throw in Oates as well.

If they never had the horses (as apparently Boston has) than what was the point of going all in on Hanzal? That trade probably set them back another two years into actually building something meaningful.

[team22tank]

Charlie Coyle has 7 goals and 6 assists this offseason. I suppose it's his fault the Wild didn't get what they needed out of him.

It is no ones fault. Charlie isn't a Marchand, Pastrnak, Bergeron, Krecji, he is a roll player and that is why he is fitting in so well they have the big horses. The Wild don't and Charlie as we know wasn't going to be one here.

Boston was also fine when Coyle wasn't producing much in the regular a season, again they have the horses.

Couple observations...Coyle may be a journeyman role player but he's been better than that this post season. He's been hard to play against and is noticeable in a good way everywhere on the ice. The kid doesn't seem to have the knack for scoring, which will probably hold him back, but he's been a nice add for Boston.

Marchand is really good when he's on, but he's made some gawdawfully bad decisions in the past game or two...bone headed even.

It helps when you have the squad Boston has. It also isnt like he didnt have the chance to prove he was a great playoff player here...in 44 games he had 15 points. His ascension is more to do with Boston being great than him being better.

That is to level headed of a response, not entertaining.

Coyle rules, Parise, Suter, Koivu suck, throw in Oates as well.

If they never had the horses (as apparently Boston has) than what was the point of going all in on Hanzal? That trade probably set them back another two years into actually building something meaningful.

I agree. 2nd place that year and they went the rental route and it didn't work. Nashville did that this year, look at the multiple moves they made and had to give up, they have Cap issues galore and now are out a lot of resources as well.

I've never been a big fan of the rental move because it is just to risky. Unless you get an absolute Pro like an Inginla who you know will give 110% playing in a parking lot then I don't like the risk.

[ScoobyDoo]

It's time for the owner to stop thinking that this airplane can be built while it's in the air.

[team22tank]

It's time for the owner to stop thinking that this airplane can be built while it's in the air.

What do you advise?

Trade anyone over 25 for picks and or 20 and younger prospects?

Fill the holes with some of the older players in Iowa, knowing that there is no way the team could compete. Which would get a top pick and hope it is a franchise player?

That type of route?

[ScoobyDoo]

First of all stop giving players away.
Second, when you make a lopsided trade make sure they throw in a pick.
Third, ultimately you're going to have to keep missing the playoffs and hope you get lucky for once and get to draft a generational talent.

No, I'm not suggesting they tank. They have to field a team.

[Thirty-Four]

First of all stop giving players away.
Second, when you make a lopsided trade make sure they throw in a pick.
Third, ultimately you're going to have to keep missing the playoffs and hope you get lucky for once and get to draft a generational talent.

No, I'm not suggesting they tank. They have to field a team.

Bless you for trying. Dude is either an employee or just plain drunk on the kool aid.

[team22tank]

First of all stop giving players away.
Second, when you make a lopsided trade make sure they throw in a pick.
Third, ultimately you're going to have to keep missing the playoffs and hope you get lucky for once and get to draft a generational talent.

No, I'm not suggesting they tank. They have to field a team.

Bless you for trying. Dude is either an employee or just plain drunk on the kool aid.

Fenton sucks, Fletcher actually had it right, I just listened to an 11th Russo podcast.

Parise, Suter and Koivu stink. Build around Zucker.

Did I do it right?

[ScoobyDoo]

Fenton does indeed suck. Fletcher had about a .500 hit rate. Not good enough.

No one said they suck. They just don't elevate anyone around them and they suck at leadership. They aren't good enough to wash Crosby's jock.

No. You did it wrong.

[bearpaw28]

Fenton does indeed suck. Fletcher had about a .500 hit rate. Not good enough.

No one said they suck. They just don't elevate anyone around them and they suck at leadership.

This pretty much sums it up. And to say Fenton is off to a shaky start as GM is dead on, coupled with his very insecure personality, he better pick it up significantly or he will be shown the door by this time next year, if not sooner.

[J22]

Bob Mckenzie blowing holes in all of the BS that Russo has been spewing.

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/t ... -1.1314684

[ScoobyDoo]

Bob Mckenzie blowing holes in all of the BS that Russo has been spewing.

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/t ... -1.1314684

I hear nothing in there that disputes what Russo has said. Nothing. And yes, I found the right part the broadcast.

[J22]

Bob Mckenzie blowing holes in all of the BS that Russo has been spewing.

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/t ... -1.1314684

I hear nothing in there that disputes what Russo has said. Nothing. And yes, I found the right part the broadcast.

Check your hearing

[F Da Sue]

Bob Mckenzie blowing holes in all of the BS that Russo has been spewing.

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/t ... -1.1314684

I’m with Scooby.

The only thing that McKenzie is reporting that’s different than Russo is that the Rask and Johnson contracts would also be traded. McKenzie then says he could be wrong on this however.

Nice try though.

[J22]

Bob Mckenzie blowing holes in all of the BS that Russo has been spewing.

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/t ... -1.1314684

I’m with Scooby.

The only thing that McKenzie is reporting that’s different than Russo is that the Rask and Johnson contracts would also be traded. McKenzie then says he could be wrong on this however.

Nice try though.

McKenzie -"I wouldn't be surprised if the trade gets done with Minnesota". "Kessel's no to Pittsburgh about Minnesota wasn't really a hard 100% no, so much as it was asking them to check with other teams".

[Alby22]

Bob Mckenzie blowing holes in all of the BS that Russo has been spewing.

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/t ... -1.1314684

I’m with Scooby.

The only thing that McKenzie is reporting that’s different than Russo is that the Rask and Johnson contracts would also be traded. McKenzie then says he could be wrong on this however.

Nice try though.

McKenzie -"I wouldn't be surprised if the trade gets done with Minnesota". "Kessel's no to Pittsburgh about Minnesota wasn't really a hard 100% no, so much as it was asking them to check with other teams".

Even that quote is not “blowing holes” in Russo’s story. Lol

[team22tank]

Bob Mckenzie blowing holes in all of the BS that Russo has been spewing.

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/t ... -1.1314684

I’m with Scooby.

The only thing that McKenzie is reporting that’s different than Russo is that the Rask and Johnson contracts would also be traded. McKenzie then says he could be wrong on this however.

Nice try though.

McKenzie -"I wouldn't be surprised if the trade gets done with Minnesota". "Kessel's no to Pittsburgh about Minnesota wasn't really a hard 100% no, so much as it was asking them to check with other teams".

Also, not once does he go the tabloid route like Russo has been doing. Trying to paint Fenton in a bad light because he had a call with Kessel, god forbid. And spins it as, since Kessel hasnt approved the deal they are not a destination, and then continues to stretch into Fenton could have a tough off season going after FA.

As I said before I am sure Phil wants to know all his options be for proceeding. Maybe in the end he has to decide between only MN and staying put? But it makes sense for him to want to know if there is another option or two first. And Mackenzie reported exactly as that.

Russo has tried to spin it as some sort of soap opera and then his crying about poor Zucker is just over the top.

I am sure he will beat it to death next week on another podcast.

[Thirty-Four]

I think the main point here is that this isn't an attractive organization to join at this time. Fenton looks overmatched and the fanbase is watching teams that retooled already lapping the Wild again. It's ok to be SuperFan #1, no issues there, but it leaves little in the way of credibility.

[team22tank]

I think the main point here is that this isn't an attractive organization to join at this time. Fenton looks overmatched and the fanbase is watching teams that retooled already lapping the Wild again. It's ok to be SuperFan #1, no issues there, but it leaves little in the way of credibility.

Is credibility what the end goal is?

To think, wanting to see how some young kids develop next season and how the cap space is used instead of instantly calling Fenton a hero or zero right this second, means you are drinking the koolaid.

[J22]

Bob Mckenzie blowing holes in all of the BS that Russo has been spewing.

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/t ... -1.1314684

I’m with Scooby.

The only thing that McKenzie is reporting that’s different than Russo is that the Rask and Johnson contracts would also be traded. McKenzie then says he could be wrong on this however.

Nice try though.

McKenzie -"I wouldn't be surprised if the trade gets done with Minnesota". "Kessel's no to Pittsburgh about Minnesota wasn't really a hard 100% no, so much as it was asking them to check with other teams".

Even that quote is not “blowing holes” in Russo’s story. Lol

It just shows that Russo has no idea what he's talking about and is making $h!t up as he goes

[team22tank]

Bob Mckenzie blowing holes in all of the BS that Russo has been spewing.

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/t ... -1.1314684

I’m with Scooby.

The only thing that McKenzie is reporting that’s different than Russo is that the Rask and Johnson contracts would also be traded. McKenzie then says he could be wrong on this however.

Nice try though.

McKenzie -"I wouldn't be surprised if the trade gets done with Minnesota". "Kessel's no to Pittsburgh about Minnesota wasn't really a hard 100% no, so much as it was asking them to check with other teams".

Even that quote is not “blowing holes” in Russo’s story. Lol

It just shows that Russo has no idea what he's talking about and is making $h!t up as he goes

He knows what he is doing. He knows he is entertaining part of the fan base and they eat it up.

Plus he has an axe to grind with Fenton.

[J22]

Bob Mckenzie blowing holes in all of the BS that Russo has been spewing.

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/t ... -1.1314684

I’m with Scooby.

The only thing that McKenzie is reporting that’s different than Russo is that the Rask and Johnson contracts would also be traded. McKenzie then says he could be wrong on this however.

Nice try though.

McKenzie -"I wouldn't be surprised if the trade gets done with Minnesota". "Kessel's no to Pittsburgh about Minnesota wasn't really a hard 100% no, so much as it was asking them to check with other teams".

Even that quote is not “blowing holes” in Russo’s story. Lol

It just shows that Russo has no idea what he's talking about and is making $h!t up as he goes

He knows what he is doing. He knows he is entertaining part of the fan base and they eat it up.

Plus he has an axe to grind with Fenton.

Just look at who he does his podcasts with.

[Handyman]

I have no idea if Fenton is any good though I am hardly impressed ...but the love affair fans have with Russo is kind of funny and I have said that for years. (back when he defended everything they did as opposed to now) Half the time it seems the guy is angling for a future career as a columnist or something like Souhan was when he was beat writer for the Twins.

[ScoobyDoo]

I have no idea if Fenton is any good though I am hardly impressed ...but the love affair fans have with Russo is kind of funny and I have said that for years. (back when he defended everything they did as opposed to now) Half the time it seems the guy is angling for a future career as a columnist or something like Souhan was when he was beat writer for the Twins.

Not here to defend Russo but I think the record needs correcting. He's already a columnist. Everyone at The Athletic is columnist. He, and everyone else that is hired is under no obligation as a beat writer to write what are called "gamers". Gamers are usually what you see in the Strib. Pioneer Press where they spout out what happened during the game. The only reason Russo still writes them is because his readers insist on it. He's stated this many times.

He's beloved because he's accessible. And he does his job and he does it well. In the past few years he was awarded some award that amounts to "beat writer" of the year or something like that so he's also well liked and respected by his peers.

So, I have no idea what you're talking about. At all.

And, on the Zucker issue we've long moved on from Russo. At least I had. J22 brought him back in again. There was a very well written, stats galore, article on The Athletic arguing against the Zucker trade. Besides a small counter from team22tank it hasn't been disputed.

Either way Fenton got less than the Wild deserved for Granlund, Nino, and Coyle. That's well documented. And the Koivu, Parise, Suter era is either over or in freefall and it's record stands for itself.

[Handyman]

You know what I meant...dont get pedantic. There is a difference between covering the team and being someone like Reusse or Barriero back in the day. That is what I am talking about. His fans may not want him to write that way but sometimes it seems that is what he would prefer.

I dont dislike him, but I dont think he is God's gift to hockey either and I find he is as full of it as anyone else. Also, and I have never uttered these words before, tank is kinda correct in that sometimes you can tell Russo is playing things up for his audience. Hell his opinion would often shift based on the show he was on. (or the station) That is cool, and rather smart since being on say Reusse's show is going to be different than being on with PA but still.

Hey it is what it is you love him and that is great. His opinions (and his sources) arent gospel though.

[bearpaw28]

I have no idea if Fenton is any good though I am hardly impressed ...but the love affair fans have with Russo is kind of funny and I have said that for years. (back when he defended everything they did as opposed to now) Half the time it seems the guy is angling for a future career as a columnist or something like Souhan was when he was beat writer for the Twins.

Not here to defend Russo but I think the record needs correcting. He's already a columnist. Everyone at The Athletic is columnist. He, and everyone else that is hired is under no obligation as a beat writer to write what are called "gamers". Gamers are usually what you see in the Strib. Pioneer Press where they spout out what happened during the game. The only reason Russo still writes them is because his readers insist on it. He's stated this many times.

He's beloved because he's accessible. And he does his job and he does it well. In the past few years he was awarded some award that amounts to "beat writer" of the year or something like that so he's also well liked and respected by his peers.

So, I have no idea what you're talking about. At all.

And, on the Zucker issue we've long moved on from Russo. At least I had. J22 brought him back in again. There was a very well written, stats galore, article on The Athletic arguing against the Zucker trade. Besides a small counter from team22tank it hasn't been disputed.

Either way Fenton got less than the Wild deserved for Granlund, Nino, and Coyle. That's well documented. And the Koivu, Parise, Suter era is either over or in freefall and it's record stands for itself.

I don’t want to give Zucker away, he has explosive speed, which is hard to find, if we trade him, we need to receive significant value back. I’m OK with keeping him too, but a guy writing an article arguing to keep Zucker due to his defensive ability...is a stats guy who doesn’t actually watch him play NHL games. Overall I like Russo, especially his passion for the job. That said, Fentons style CLEARLY rubs Russo the wrong way...so he’s not going to hesitate criticizing him (at will) when he spots an opening, and Fenton has supplied his fair share of openings...with more likely on the horizon.

[Slap Shot]

Jeezuz some of you go to bat for this franchise as if your life depends upon it.

[Thirty-Four]

I think the main point here is that this isn't an attractive organization to join at this time. Fenton looks overmatched and the fanbase is watching teams that retooled already lapping the Wild again. It's ok to be SuperFan #1, no issues there, but it leaves little in the way of credibility.

Is credibility what the end goal is?

To think, wanting to see how some young kids develop next season and how the cap space is used instead of instantly calling Fenton a hero or zero right this second, means you are drinking the koolaid.

Russo’s credibility is being questioned. You write paragraphs of positivity on the organization. Unless you post just for yourself, then yes, credibility is most important.

[ScoobyDoo]

[ScoobyDoo]

[bearpaw28]

How Fletcher & Yeo & Boudreau & Fenton couldn’t figure out that Coyle is a CENTER and leave him in that position for an extended period of time...is simply beyond comprehension That said, Charlie clearly also NEEDED a change in scenery and his hometown Bruins are the perfect team for him.

[Handyman]

Jeezuz some of you go to bat for this franchise as if your life depends upon it.

Not me...I just think Russo is overrated. I think the Wild are a friggin mess and have very little interest in them. They will go nowhere as long as they rely on Parise and Suter to play significant minutes.

The Phil trade would have helped, it would address a huge need. It didnt happen so now we are stuck with a borderline playoff team built to go nowhere. I said it before, this is like the Twins until Mauer retired and Rocco became coach. The Wild need a revamp from the top down in philosophy.

If I had my choice, they would be in full rebuild mode (that would be way more interesting) but unless they find a way to jettison the old men the team is stuck in neutral unless lightning strikes.

[ScoobyDoo]

The Vanek signing filled the same need. How'd that turn out? And this is years later with Suter, Parise, and Koivu, you're core, much older.

[Handyman]

The Vanek signing filled the same need. How'd that turn out? And this is years later with Suter, Parise, and Koivu, you're core, much older.

It didnt work...but by that ridiculous logic we should never sign a scorer because one time it didnt work. Sports fans have zero logic about this stuff...

It might not have worked, it could have failed spectacularly, but you either want the team to try or you dont. All we ever hear about is how certain teams in this town never do anything to improve they are content to stick with "the plan" and pray everything reaches its top potential. If that is what you want fine, then you forfeit the right to whine about it 2 months into the season when they are exactly who we know they are and wont make a move to change that.

Like I said I would rather they get rid of all the old men...but that cant happen. So we cant rebuild. So either we take a chance or really there isnt much hope. We cant fear change just because it didnt work in the past. Every team, even the best of the best, make stupid decisions the difference is they dont then give up on trying just because they screwed up. That is why some teams always seem to find a way to make it work, and others are always stuck in neutral.

[ScoobyDoo]

Not what I am saying at all. I am saying it's time to look in the mirror. Coyle is scoring because he's playing with talent. Nino is scoring because he's playing with talent. Vanek failed because he never really had the right linemates with him to cover for his lack of backchecking and feed him the puck. Again, lack of talent.

The team needs talent. Phil doesn't solve that problem. He's just another player that is a product of the players around him.

So, get younger. You'll always have your two boat anchors around but at this point that's all you can do. Sorry, Dubnyk, Staal, Parise, Suter, and Koivu. You had your shot here and you blew it. You're just here to finish your contracts and hopefully not be as cancerous in the locker room as you have been so we can see the kids play.

You don't start adding older players with talent until you have players around them. Kind of why Phil says no right now.

By the way. The Twins are ready to add something. Maybe the Vikes. Not the Wild, or the Wolves.

[Bonin21]

To say Phil is not a high end talent on skill level is just BS. He did fine in Toronto with no help. But yes without the right pieces around him he won't be as effective.

[ScoobyDoo]

To say Phil is not a high end talent on skill level is just BS. He did fine in Toronto with no help. But yes without the right pieces around him he won't be as effective.

Not saying that. Saying that its not worth it to add an older player without the proper talent to put around him. He's not good enough to save this team from itself. And he's certainly not going to fix this locker room.

[Bonin21]

The Wild are more than one player away from contending unless that player is probably McDavid, Crosby, or Kucherov so ya Phil isn't gonna solve anything himself.

[ScoobyDoo]

So much fun going on right now with Spurgeon having the exact same agent as Zucker.

[team22tank]

So much fun going on right now with Spurgeon having the exact same agent as Zucker.

Definitely Russo Bobo stuff right there.

In the last little bit of Wild discussion on GPL, that wasn't brought up, Zucker/Spurgeon same agent. But man has Russo been beating it to death the last month.

[ScoobyDoo]

So much fun going on right now with Spurgeon having the exact same agent as Zucker.

Definitely Russo Bobo stuff right there.

In the last little bit of Wild discussion on GPL, that wasn't brought up, Zucker/Spurgeon same agent. But man has Russo been beating it to death the last month.

Nope. Not reading it from Russo at all. Try again. Or, put it this way. Because this is the anti-Russo thread I always get another source before I mention ANYTHING Russo said.

Won't be quoting or commenting on Russo anymore.

My source this time is Craig Custance.

[team22tank]

Yup Spurgeon's agent is going to bring in Zucker Stuff while representing Spurgeon. And Spurgeon is definitely on board for something so brilliant as he gets ready to sign an extension.

I mean who needs the hockey anyway? This daytime drama Russo Bobo stuff is all that is needed for entertainment.

[J22]

So much fun going on right now with Spurgeon having the exact same agent as Zucker.

Definitely Russo Bobo stuff right there.

In the last little bit of Wild discussion on GPL, that wasn't brought up, Zucker/Spurgeon same agent. But man has Russo been beating it to death the last month.

Nope. Not reading it from Russo at all. Try again. Or, put it this way. Because this is the anti-Russo thread I always get another source before I mention ANYTHING Russo said.

Won't be quoting or commenting on Russo anymore.

My source this time is Craig Custance.

Bet you will never guess who Custance is using as his source?

[Bertogliat]

So much fun going on right now with Spurgeon having the exact same agent as Zucker.

Definitely Russo Bobo stuff right there.

In the last little bit of Wild discussion on GPL, that wasn't brought up, Zucker/Spurgeon same agent. But man has Russo been beating it to death the last month.

Nope. Not reading it from Russo at all. Try again. Or, put it this way. Because this is the anti-Russo thread I always get another source before I mention ANYTHING Russo said.

Won't be quoting or commenting on Russo anymore.

My source this time is Craig Custance.

Bet you will never guess who Custance is using as his source?

[ScoobyDoo]

I bet both of them have talked to Zucker/Spurgeon's Agent.

[team22tank]

Juicy, keep it coming.

[ScoobyDoo]

The Penguins had the deal in place to trade Kessel. This wasn’t just speculation. It would have been nice if it had gone through. I’m hoping it still will. Zucker is a solid player with the skating speed to play Sullivan’s preferred game and a decent scoring touch with an average of 25 goals the past three seasons. It’s a bit troubling this isn’t the first time the Wild tried to trade Zucker, but I could have moved past that. I’m not exactly expecting a big return for Kessel. The Penguins might not get much more than much-needed salary cap relief.

Other teams know Kessel is hard on coaches. He has worn out his welcome here — just as he did in Toronto and Boston — despite his point-a-game resume and his team-leading work on the power play. He doesn’t have much of a work ethic. He doesn’t believe in practicing hard, which sets a bad example for his younger teammates. He’s hardly in the best shape.

I have a hard time seeing Rutherford finding a taker willing to give back anything close to equal value for Kessel.

I keep hearing Arizona is a likely destination for Kessel, but I’m not buying it. I’m not convinced Coyotes coach Rick Tocchet wants Kessel even though he was the Kessel Whisperer when he was an assistant here on Sullivan’s staff. The Tocchet-Kessel relationship wouldn’t be the same with Tocchet as the head coach.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/ron ... 1906050058

[GopherPete]

The Penguins had the deal in place to trade Kessel. This wasn’t just speculation. It would have been nice if it had gone through. I’m hoping it still will. Zucker is a solid player with the skating speed to play Sullivan’s preferred game and a decent scoring touch with an average of 25 goals the past three seasons. It’s a bit troubling this isn’t the first time the Wild tried to trade Zucker, but I could have moved past that. I’m not exactly expecting a big return for Kessel. The Penguins might not get much more than much-needed salary cap relief.

Other teams know Kessel is hard on coaches. He has worn out his welcome here — just as he did in Toronto and Boston — despite his point-a-game resume and his team-leading work on the power play. He doesn’t have much of a work ethic. He doesn’t believe in practicing hard, which sets a bad example for his younger teammates. He’s hardly in the best shape.

I have a hard time seeing Rutherford finding a taker willing to give back anything close to equal value for Kessel.

I keep hearing Arizona is a likely destination for Kessel, but I’m not buying it. I’m not convinced Coyotes coach Rick Tocchet wants Kessel even though he was the Kessel Whisperer when he was an assistant here on Sullivan’s staff. The Tocchet-Kessel relationship wouldn’t be the same with Tocchet as the head coach.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/ron ... 1906050058

I know someone mentioned this recently and I've also brought it up previously, and people seemed to take offense to it, but clearly it is a real concern.

[ScoobyDoo]

The Penguins had the deal in place to trade Kessel. This wasn’t just speculation. It would have been nice if it had gone through. I’m hoping it still will. Zucker is a solid player with the skating speed to play Sullivan’s preferred game and a decent scoring touch with an average of 25 goals the past three seasons. It’s a bit troubling this isn’t the first time the Wild tried to trade Zucker, but I could have moved past that. I’m not exactly expecting a big return for Kessel. The Penguins might not get much more than much-needed salary cap relief.

Other teams know Kessel is hard on coaches. He has worn out his welcome here — just as he did in Toronto and Boston — despite his point-a-game resume and his team-leading work on the power play. He doesn’t have much of a work ethic. He doesn’t believe in practicing hard, which sets a bad example for his younger teammates. He’s hardly in the best shape.

I have a hard time seeing Rutherford finding a taker willing to give back anything close to equal value for Kessel.

I keep hearing Arizona is a likely destination for Kessel, but I’m not buying it. I’m not convinced Coyotes coach Rick Tocchet wants Kessel even though he was the Kessel Whisperer when he was an assistant here on Sullivan’s staff. The Tocchet-Kessel relationship wouldn’t be the same with Tocchet as the head coach.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/ron ... 1906050058

I know someone mentioned this recently and I've also brought it up previously, and people seemed to take offense to it, but clearly it is a real concern.

I'm sure he uses Russo as a source so it's irrelevant.

[J22]

The Penguins had the deal in place to trade Kessel. This wasn’t just speculation. It would have been nice if it had gone through. I’m hoping it still will. Zucker is a solid player with the skating speed to play Sullivan’s preferred game and a decent scoring touch with an average of 25 goals the past three seasons. It’s a bit troubling this isn’t the first time the Wild tried to trade Zucker, but I could have moved past that. I’m not exactly expecting a big return for Kessel. The Penguins might not get much more than much-needed salary cap relief.

Other teams know Kessel is hard on coaches. He has worn out his welcome here — just as he did in Toronto and Boston — despite his point-a-game resume and his team-leading work on the power play. He doesn’t have much of a work ethic. He doesn’t believe in practicing hard, which sets a bad example for his younger teammates. He’s hardly in the best shape.

I have a hard time seeing Rutherford finding a taker willing to give back anything close to equal value for Kessel.

I keep hearing Arizona is a likely destination for Kessel, but I’m not buying it. I’m not convinced Coyotes coach Rick Tocchet wants Kessel even though he was the Kessel Whisperer when he was an assistant here on Sullivan’s staff. The Tocchet-Kessel relationship wouldn’t be the same with Tocchet as the head coach.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/ron ... 1906050058

I know someone mentioned this recently and I've also brought it up previously, and people seemed to take offense to it, but clearly it is a real concern.

What would be the concern?

[J22]

I bet both of them have talked to Zucker/Spurgeon's Agent.

If Spurgeon's agent is willing to use Spurgeon and his next contract as a tool to get even for Jason Zucker? Then Spurgeon and Zucker both desperately need a new agent.

[ScoobyDoo]

I bet both of them have talked to Zucker/Spurgeon's Agent.

If Spurgeon's agent is willing to use Spurgeon and his next contract as a tool to get even for Jason Zucker? Then Spurgeon and Zucker both desperately need a new agent.

LOL

Read the article. Has nothing to do with getting even.

[J22]

I bet both of them have talked to Zucker/Spurgeon's Agent.

If Spurgeon's agent is willing to use Spurgeon and his next contract as a tool to get even for Jason Zucker? Then Spurgeon and Zucker both desperately need a new agent.

LOL

Read the article. Has nothing to do with getting even.

The Custance article?

Why would Zucker and Spurgeon having the same agent have any significance in anyway?

[ScoobyDoo]

It never matters. That's why the hockey writers all bring it up. If it mattered they wouldn't bother.

[sunbone]

So much fun going on right now with Spurgeon having the exact same agent as Zucker.

Definitely Russo Bobo stuff right there.

In the last little bit of Wild discussion on GPL, that wasn't brought up, Zucker/Spurgeon same agent. But man has Russo been beating it to death the last month.

I have to say you referring to someone else as a Bobo cracks me up.

[team22tank]

So much fun going on right now with Spurgeon having the exact same agent as Zucker.

Definitely Russo Bobo stuff right there.

In the last little bit of Wild discussion on GPL, that wasn't brought up, Zucker/Spurgeon same agent. But man has Russo been beating it to death the last month.

I have to say you referring to someone else as a Bobo cracks me up.

Well played

I get it, my wait and see takes must come across as over the top these days!

[GopherPete]

The Penguins had the deal in place to trade Kessel. This wasn’t just speculation. It would have been nice if it had gone through. I’m hoping it still will. Zucker is a solid player with the skating speed to play Sullivan’s preferred game and a decent scoring touch with an average of 25 goals the past three seasons. It’s a bit troubling this isn’t the first time the Wild tried to trade Zucker, but I could have moved past that. I’m not exactly expecting a big return for Kessel. The Penguins might not get much more than much-needed salary cap relief.

Other teams know Kessel is hard on coaches. He has worn out his welcome here — just as he did in Toronto and Boston — despite his point-a-game resume and his team-leading work on the power play. He doesn’t have much of a work ethic. He doesn’t believe in practicing hard, which sets a bad example for his younger teammates. He’s hardly in the best shape.

I have a hard time seeing Rutherford finding a taker willing to give back anything close to equal value for Kessel.

I keep hearing Arizona is a likely destination for Kessel, but I’m not buying it. I’m not convinced Coyotes coach Rick Tocchet wants Kessel even though he was the Kessel Whisperer when he was an assistant here on Sullivan’s staff. The Tocchet-Kessel relationship wouldn’t be the same with Tocchet as the head coach.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/ron ... 1906050058

I know someone mentioned this recently and I've also brought it up previously, and people seemed to take offense to it, but clearly it is a real concern.

What would be the concern?

I don't know if you noticed the bolded section, but having that type of reputation is definitely a concern. Not only that, but as he ages he will fall off quickly due to being in terrible condition.

[Vegoe]

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/n ... re-talking

Who the heck would they get back? The No. 10 pick would be nicer than what they have on their NHL roster.

[ScoobyDoo]

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/n ... re-talking

Who the heck would they get back? The No. 10 pick would be nicer than what they have on their NHL roster.

That's another article from another team (like the Pitt one I linked above) where they're thrilled to be getting Zucker for whoever Fenton wants.

LOL.

[J22]

The Penguins had the deal in place to trade Kessel. This wasn’t just speculation. It would have been nice if it had gone through. I’m hoping it still will. Zucker is a solid player with the skating speed to play Sullivan’s preferred game and a decent scoring touch with an average of 25 goals the past three seasons. It’s a bit troubling this isn’t the first time the Wild tried to trade Zucker, but I could have moved past that. I’m not exactly expecting a big return for Kessel. The Penguins might not get much more than much-needed salary cap relief.

Other teams know Kessel is hard on coaches. He has worn out his welcome here — just as he did in Toronto and Boston — despite his point-a-game resume and his team-leading work on the power play. He doesn’t have much of a work ethic. He doesn’t believe in practicing hard, which sets a bad example for his younger teammates. He’s hardly in the best shape.

I have a hard time seeing Rutherford finding a taker willing to give back anything close to equal value for Kessel.

I keep hearing Arizona is a likely destination for Kessel, but I’m not buying it. I’m not convinced Coyotes coach Rick Tocchet wants Kessel even though he was the Kessel Whisperer when he was an assistant here on Sullivan’s staff. The Tocchet-Kessel relationship wouldn’t be the same with Tocchet as the head coach.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/ron ... 1906050058

I know someone mentioned this recently and I've also brought it up previously, and people seemed to take offense to it, but clearly it is a real concern.

What would be the concern?

I don't know if you noticed the bolded section, but having that type of reputation is definitely a concern. Not only that, but as he ages he will fall off quickly due to being in terrible condition.

I guess we're having this conversation again. Could you please tell me the last time that Phil Kessel missed a game? Then could you please tell me what were his two most productive seasons? Thanks.