Minnesota Twins 2014 - ∞: To Infinity & Beyond!

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Handyman » Sat Dec 21 6:45 pm

Yeah we should just not sign anyone unless they are superstars. Good God dude give it a rest we can both be happy with this signing and expecting them to do more.
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by bearpaw28 » Sun Dec 22 11:08 am

I’m happy with the signing 🤡. I guess it was timed as a Twins Christmas present :biggrin2:

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by frozen4champs » Sun Dec 22 3:09 pm


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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Vegasgopher » Sun Dec 22 4:29 pm

I wonder if with the tribe selling they are going to go after Donaldson and a pitcher like ryu and then wait for the trade deadline when sellers are more willing to sell to go after bigger pitchers because they think we will be competitive in the division as we are now? Might be a good play

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by J22 » Sun Dec 22 11:31 pm


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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by JWG » Mon Dec 23 6:24 am

Well... So much for free agency.
Though, $20M a year for an injury prone 33 year old is a risk. If a pitcher can get hurt, the Twins will find a way.
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Bertogliat » Mon Dec 23 8:06 am

It is amazing how these pitchers are worth the money to other teams, but never the Twins.


Juuuuusssst missed.

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by JWG » Mon Dec 23 8:45 am

Bertogliat wrote:
Mon Dec 23 8:06 am
It is amazing how these pitchers are worth the money to other teams, but never the Twins.


Juuuuusssst missed.
Ryu, individually, doesn't bother me. It's the collective "thud" in free agency that is disappointing. They very well could have a blockbuster trade in the works that we just won't hear about until it happens. Here's hoping.
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Handyman » Mon Dec 23 9:57 am

I wouldnt hold your breathe...
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by streakygopher » Mon Dec 23 10:30 am

Border Gopher wrote:
Sat Dec 21 8:34 am
Bertogliat wrote:
Fri Dec 20 10:50 pm
Border Gopher wrote:
Fri Dec 20 6:25 pm
Handyman wrote:
Fri Dec 20 5:02 pm
I have never heard of the guy...but I am all for signing pitchers!
Not sure how many games you watch on TV, but maybe this helps.

[img]http://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/7Vs65ZWTto5aT9.J02glrg--~A/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAw/https://media.zenfs.com/en-US/nbcsports ... af3307f4d9[/img]
Should it?
Just saying he pitched against the Twins several times last season and with the athletic-type glasses I recognized him right away. By the way, Gleeman has an article up on him in The Athletic and he apparently has some very unique stats.

-his career .239 batting average on balls in play is the second-lowest in history for pitchers over 600 innings.
-he has a BABIP under .300 for 11 consecutive seasons
-his 5 seasons of a BABIP <.225 is tops all-time, Mariano Rivera is 2nd with 3 seasons
Cracks me up to see all the breathtaking analysis and when a name is thrown out that should be familiar (bullpen guy from the only team that challenged the Twins for the division last season) the same experts who play weekend GM suddenly get amnesia. :)

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Handyman » Mon Dec 23 2:14 pm

I can barely remember our players why would I remember a dude on Cleveland?

Then again I'm glad they got him :)
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by The Rube » Mon Dec 23 6:12 pm

Handyman wrote:
Mon Dec 23 2:14 pm
I can barely remember our players why would I remember a dude on Cleveland?

Then again I'm glad they got him :)
I only remember him from the glasses. Then it was an instant "OH YEAH!" light bulb.
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Cowgirl » Mon Dec 23 10:12 pm

I had heard the name. That was pretty much all I knew about the guy.

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by frozen4champs » Sat Dec 28 10:30 pm


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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Handyman » Sat Dec 28 10:33 pm

That...ummm...oye.
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Bigbeer » Sat Dec 28 10:40 pm

Handyman wrote:
Sat Dec 28 10:33 pm
That...ummm...oye.
Seems about right
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by JWG » Sat Dec 28 10:46 pm

Umm... why? That doesn’t solve the problem.
JWG :M:

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Bertogliat » Sat Dec 28 11:08 pm

Still boycotting

#TwinsBoycott

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Beauner » Sun Dec 29 12:04 am

🙄
He'd be the #4-5 starter that everyone wants them to sign if they trade for another high end pitcher. When he's healthy he's really good. Trouble is he's healthy for about 15 starts a year.
It'd be a really good move if they get him.
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Handyman » Sun Dec 29 3:16 am

Sorry but I am not going to get all a flutter over another back end starter. Especially one who is over the hill and oft injured. Maybe if he was coming off a great year but knee and elbow issues? I am 39 without either of those problems how about they sign me :lol:

Considering the talk of trades from the Twins Geeks like Gleeman have kind of fallen off (or gotten repetitive) my guess is the trade front is (ahem) striking out as well.

I will re-evaluate if they get a front end starter but as of now...yawn.
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by davescharf » Tue Dec 31 11:18 am

The Twins are signing Homer Bailey and Rich Hill. Cue the meltdown in 3...2...

Best comment I’ve seen about it this far is whether Mrs Hill is ok with TF’s bag policy
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Handyman » Tue Dec 31 11:29 am

Signing Homer Bailey is not a good sign for the "trading for a high end pitcher" theory.
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Beauner » Tue Dec 31 11:42 am

I like the Rich Hill move a lot. When he gets back he can provide some very effective innings.
Homer Bailey is meh. He seems like a guy Wes Johnson can work with and improve on some of his numbers based on some of the peripherals. His K/9 numbers went up a bit last year after he made some adjustments in his approach. I'd be kinda surprised if he ends the season in the starting rotation (barring injury or suspensions).

Now go trade for Jon Gray please.
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by frozen4champs » Tue Dec 31 11:56 am

My major issue with Hill is that he has a history of injuries. But I guess for 3 million, it is worth a shot.

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Beauner » Tue Dec 31 12:20 pm

frozen4champs wrote:
Tue Dec 31 11:56 am
My major issue with Hill is that he has a history of injuries. But I guess for 3 million, it is worth a shot.
It's definitely a flier. He's gonna be rehabbing until June or July. Then can join the rotation as a full time starter or be used as an opener where he goes 2-3 innings. He's proven throughout his career to be very effective. He just can't keep on the field for one reason or another.
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by JWG » Tue Dec 31 12:36 pm

So... no Ace? We continue to confuse quantity with quality.
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Beauner » Tue Dec 31 12:48 pm

JWG wrote:
Tue Dec 31 12:36 pm
So... no Ace? We continue to confuse quantity with quality.
:roll:
Did everyone not say they need to get at least one back-of-the-rotation guy as well as a front of the rotation guy?

Hill/Bailey are the back of the rotation guy. The ace on the FA market was never coming here (as everyone already knew). The second best FA pitcher never left Washington.

If they are adding a true "ace" they'll have to do it via trade. Which is what most people have been saying from day one (at least those realistic enough to know Gerrit Cole wasn't coming here and Strasburg wasn't leaving Washington).
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Handyman » Tue Dec 31 2:04 pm

Why are you so certain they will be able to make this trade you keep talking about? I have seen nothing, even from the Twins geeks who laud all of their moves, that tells me this team is anywhere close to making any sort of deal. And we all know the Twins are never willing to give up the type of prospect needed to really have a shot at major move.

I mean you have to admit, based on track record and well...lack of any real evidence to the contrary, that it is more likely Hill and Bailey ARE the big moves for the rotation and no ace is coming right? I mean the Twins have been doing this exact thing FOR DECADES! They have earned no benefit of the doubt.

Hey if you are right then all is well and we will all applaud it. But I have seen this movie before and I am not just gonna buy their PR spin because I love the team and hope for the best. Hope springs eternal when the season starts...in the offseason it is "What have you done for me lately"?
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by bearpaw28 » Tue Dec 31 2:58 pm

Handyman wrote:
Tue Dec 31 2:04 pm
Why are you so certain they will be able to make this trade you keep talking about? I have seen nothing, even from the Twins geeks who laud all of their moves, that tells me this team is anywhere close to making any sort of deal. And we all know the Twins are never willing to give up the type of prospect needed to really have a shot at major move.

I mean you have to admit, based on track record and well...lack of any real evidence to the contrary, that it is more likely Hill and Bailey ARE the big moves for the rotation and no ace is coming right? I mean the Twins have been doing this exact thing FOR DECADES! They have earned no benefit of the doubt.

Hey if you are right then all is well and we will all applaud it. But I have seen this movie before and I am not just gonna buy their PR spin because I love the team and hope for the best. Hope springs eternal when the season starts...in the offseason it is "What have you done for me lately"?
Agree 1000% if they don’t trade for a top end starting pitcher (nobody’s holding their breath on that) then this offseason will prove to be Twins business as usual ☝️
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Beauner » Tue Dec 31 2:58 pm

I'm not sure of them making a trade for a pitcher. That's why I said "if they are adding" they'd need to make it via trade. 😉

As it sits right now they have Berrios, Bailey, Odorizzi, Thorpe, Smeltzer, Graterol, and Dobnak (and maybe Stashak) as rotation pieces to start the season, with Pineda joining in mid-May and Hill probably late June or early July.

That is essentially the same rotation they had last season (maybe a slight upgrade since they lost Gibby and Perez).

IF they trade for a front end rotation guy it seems likely they'd be shipping at least 1-2 of the aforementioned young pitchers out (Thorpe being chief among them).

If they allocate a whole bunch of money to Josh Donaldson, IMO, they'll try to trade for a pitcher and really make a push to get this team over the hump now. If Donaldson elects to go elsewhere or stay in ATL, I'd bet they wait until the season starts to get a little better feeling for who is buying and selling at the deadline.
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Vegasgopher » Tue Dec 31 7:44 pm

I'd guess they get Donaldson then wait for the trade deadline and go for it then on an ace...might be a wise play, we'll see

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by bearpaw28 » Wed Jan 01 1:05 am

Vegasgopher wrote:
Tue Dec 31 7:44 pm
I'd guess they get Donaldson then wait for the trade deadline and go for it then on an ace...might be a wise play, we'll see
Just like last year huh :ahhh: :wink: It’s truly facinating watching you & Beauner rationalize every move Falvine make. In the end, everyone will still be Twin fans when April rolls around, but as others have noted, the fan momentum & goodwill generated by winning 101 games will flow (be pissed) down the drain if/when Falvine essentially stands pat this offseason.

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Beauner » Sat Jan 04 7:25 pm

Sounds like my dream of Josh Donaldson coming here may be coming to an end.
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by JWG » Sat Jan 04 10:02 pm

Well. Now what? Donaldson is reportedly not interested in the Twins. More and more it looks like we’re just going to roll with Berrios as our #1.
JWG :M:

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Maize » Sat Jan 04 10:13 pm

JWG wrote:
Sat Jan 04 10:02 pm
More and more it looks like we’re just going to roll with Berrios as our #1.
I'd legitimately like to see someone here make a list of all the pitchers they rate above Berrios and point out which ones the Twins should be getting. Because the list is a lot smaller and way less realistic than the "SIGN GUYZ" crowd here likes to pretend.

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by bearpaw28 » Sat Jan 04 11:04 pm

That’s not the point & you damn well know it..,the PPP followed up 101 wins by doing the same thing they do every year relating to spending significant 💰to improve the team (for the next season)...Jack Squat :bored:

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Bertogliat » Sat Jan 04 11:19 pm

Maize wrote:
Sat Jan 04 10:13 pm
JWG wrote:
Sat Jan 04 10:02 pm
More and more it looks like we’re just going to roll with Berrios as our #1.
I'd legitimately like to see someone here make a list of all the pitchers they rate above Berrios and point out which ones the Twins should be getting. Because the list is a lot smaller and way less realistic than the "SIGN GUYZ" crowd here likes to pretend.
Even if it true that the Twins couldn’t sign a solid FA pitcher this year, it isn’t true every year. Yet every year they don’t sign one.

They choose to not pay up.

#TwinsBoycott

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Composer » Sun Jan 05 6:01 pm

OK. I'm a 20 year season ticket holder (20 game). Baseball is my favorite sport. I enjoy watching baseball on TV, and I like going to games. It's even better when my team wins, but I go anyway. Last year they won a lot. I paid a lot of money for playoff tickets, and got most of it back. I don't see what I have to complain about. This year I got more value for my dollar then usual. What exactly do I have to complain about? If you do boycott, I hope that includes staying out of the Twins thread to complain about a team you're not paying attention to.

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Bigbeer » Sun Jan 05 6:48 pm

Composer wrote:
Sun Jan 05 6:01 pm
What exactly do I have to complain about? If you do boycott, I hope that includes staying out of the Twins thread to complain about a team you're not paying attention to.
Not likely
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Vegasgopher » Sun Jan 05 6:52 pm

Seems to me there have been a bunch of guys they've gone after or that were available that just plain didn't want to come here or had specific destinations already in mind...that's a bigger issue

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Alby22 » Sun Jan 05 7:03 pm

If the Twins want to sign impact free agents like they have told us they have to understand the price of poker. You have to overpay and it’s usually a 4-5 year deal for impact guys. The twins are more afraid of the back end of those contracts then what the front end of the deal might help them do. Part of the reason impact free agents don’t want to come to MN is they don’t trust the team is going to make that commitment to try and put together a consistent contender. They haven’t shown that ever.

I understand as a medium market team you can’t display that win at all cost attitude all the time but when you have a great team and your FO refuses to improve an obvious weakness on a great team at the deadline that resonates with players when they make their decisions in free agency.

Just my .02

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Maize » Mon Jan 06 9:24 am

Bertogliat wrote:
Sat Jan 04 11:19 pm


Even if it true that the Twins couldn’t sign a solid FA pitcher this year, it isn’t true every year. Yet every year they don’t sign one.

They choose to not pay up.
Very well then. I'll also accept specific names from previous years.

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by mnpuckguy » Mon Jan 06 10:06 am

Donaldson just used the Twins to drive the price up! He never had any intention of signing with the Twins. He is not worth $110 million.

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Beauner » Mon Jan 06 11:28 am

mnpuckguy wrote:
Mon Jan 06 10:06 am
Donaldson just used the Twins to drive the price up! He never had any intention of signing with the Twins. He is not worth $110 million.
In fairness to him, he made it clear that he wanted to stay in ATL if they'd match the bid he got from other teams. The question was whether they'd go 4/100+. Their initial offers were in the 3 year window.
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by JWG » Mon Jan 06 11:29 am

Nevermind...
Didn't have a secure link.
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Bertogliat » Mon Jan 06 11:55 am

Maize wrote:
Mon Jan 06 9:24 am
Bertogliat wrote:
Sat Jan 04 11:19 pm


Even if it true that the Twins couldn’t sign a solid FA pitcher this year, it isn’t true every year. Yet every year they don’t sign one.

They choose to not pay up.
Very well then. I'll also accept specific names from previous years.
Every FA pitcher that switched teams. There is no salary cap. If they are willing to spend the money, FA pitchers will come.

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Handyman » Mon Jan 06 12:00 pm

Well we are...well we are willing to spend just UNDER the team that signs him ;)
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Maize » Mon Jan 06 12:22 pm

Bertogliat wrote:
Mon Jan 06 11:55 am


Every FA pitcher that switched teams. There is no salary cap. If they are willing to spend the money, FA pitchers will come.
Cool. Should be easy then. Name one.

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by JWG » Mon Jan 06 3:13 pm

Let's be clear that the Twins did not have the dollars necessary to stay under their self-imposed salary cap to sign Donaldson. He's demanding $100M over 4 years or so ($25M / year) and the Twins supposedly are looking to spend an additional $17M - $20M on their payroll. So, this will be another "we tried, we put up a competitive offer, he just didn't want to play here" scenario.

The Twins have to understand that all things equal in an offer, players may choose other locations due to weather, perception of team's commitment to winning, etc. and until the Twins actually make a bold move, no one has faith the really will. They're not going to get a grand slam ace at $17M a year, so if that self-imposed available spend is accurate - it feeds the narrative - the Twins are ok being ok.
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by HockeyBum » Mon Jan 06 3:57 pm

Vegasgopher wrote:
Sun Jan 05 6:52 pm
Seems to me there have been a bunch of guys they've gone after or that were available that just plain didn't want to come here or had specific destinations already in mind...that's a bigger issue
I think this is the biggest issue. At a certain point, these 8-9 figure contracts become Monopoly money. What possible difference does another 5 million make? I've lived here all my life, and even I probably wouldn't sign here if I was a highly sought free agent baseball player with options. The weather here in April and October (if you're lucky enough to make the postseason) is miserable.

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by JWG » Mon Jan 06 3:59 pm

HockeyBum wrote:
Mon Jan 06 3:57 pm
Vegasgopher wrote:
Sun Jan 05 6:52 pm
Seems to me there have been a bunch of guys they've gone after or that were available that just plain didn't want to come here or had specific destinations already in mind...that's a bigger issue
I think this is the biggest issue. At a certain point, these 8-9 figure contracts become Monopoly money. What possible difference does another 5 million make? I've lived here all my life, and even I probably wouldn't sign here if I was a highly sought free agent baseball player with options. The weather here in April and October (if you're lucky enough to make the postseason) is miserable.
We should play in a dome...
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by J22 » Mon Jan 06 4:08 pm

Players that have multiple options in where to sign are always going to choose the team that is most committed to winning a world series. Minnesota is at the bottom of that list.

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Slap Shot » Mon Jan 06 6:00 pm

I think they need to slightly overspend by Twins standards until they establish a culture. I agree that on a (how many?) million dollar business 10 million more per year for instance does not break the Pohlad bank. Get it done.
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Beauner » Mon Jan 06 10:57 pm

JWG wrote:
Mon Jan 06 3:13 pm
Let's be clear that the Twins did not have the dollars necessary to stay under their self-imposed salary cap to sign Donaldson. He's demanding $100M over 4 years or so ($25M / year) and the Twins supposedly are looking to spend an additional $17M - $20M on their payroll. So, this will be another "we tried, we put up a competitive offer, he just didn't want to play here" scenario.

The Twins have to understand that all things equal in an offer, players may choose other locations due to weather, perception of team's commitment to winning, etc. and until the Twins actually make a bold move, no one has faith the really will. They're not going to get a grand slam ace at $17M a year, so if that self-imposed available spend is accurate - it feeds the narrative - the Twins are ok being ok.
It was reported by multiple outlets that the Twins offered JD 4/100.
Atlanta has now reportedly offered 4/105 to keep him in ATL, which is where he wanted to be if they'd meet the terms he wanted.

As others have said, we can't force guys to want to come here. And if the difference is 110 million here vs 100 million in his preferred destination, is the extra 10 million gonna be worth it to make a guy sign somewhere he doesn't really have at the top of his list?
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Bertogliat » Tue Jan 07 5:41 am

Beauner wrote:
Mon Jan 06 10:57 pm
JWG wrote:
Mon Jan 06 3:13 pm
Let's be clear that the Twins did not have the dollars necessary to stay under their self-imposed salary cap to sign Donaldson. He's demanding $100M over 4 years or so ($25M / year) and the Twins supposedly are looking to spend an additional $17M - $20M on their payroll. So, this will be another "we tried, we put up a competitive offer, he just didn't want to play here" scenario.

The Twins have to understand that all things equal in an offer, players may choose other locations due to weather, perception of team's commitment to winning, etc. and until the Twins actually make a bold move, no one has faith the really will. They're not going to get a grand slam ace at $17M a year, so if that self-imposed available spend is accurate - it feeds the narrative - the Twins are ok being ok.
It was reported by multiple outlets that the Twins offered JD 4/100.
Atlanta has now reportedly offered 4/105 to keep him in ATL, which is where he wanted to be if they'd meet the terms he wanted.

As others have said, we can't force guys to want to come here. And if the difference is 110 million here vs 100 million in his preferred destination, is the extra 10 million gonna be worth it to make a guy sign somewhere he doesn't really have at the top of his list?
They could always make the offer and find out.

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Handyman » Tue Jan 07 10:32 am

Beauner wrote:
Mon Jan 06 10:57 pm
JWG wrote:
Mon Jan 06 3:13 pm
Let's be clear that the Twins did not have the dollars necessary to stay under their self-imposed salary cap to sign Donaldson. He's demanding $100M over 4 years or so ($25M / year) and the Twins supposedly are looking to spend an additional $17M - $20M on their payroll. So, this will be another "we tried, we put up a competitive offer, he just didn't want to play here" scenario.

The Twins have to understand that all things equal in an offer, players may choose other locations due to weather, perception of team's commitment to winning, etc. and until the Twins actually make a bold move, no one has faith the really will. They're not going to get a grand slam ace at $17M a year, so if that self-imposed available spend is accurate - it feeds the narrative - the Twins are ok being ok.
It was reported by multiple outlets that the Twins offered JD 4/100.
Atlanta has now reportedly offered 4/105 to keep him in ATL, which is where he wanted to be if they'd meet the terms he wanted.

As others have said, we can't force guys to want to come here. And if the difference is 110 million here vs 100 million in his preferred destination, is the extra 10 million gonna be worth it to make a guy sign somewhere he doesn't really have at the top of his list?
No one is going to have us at the "top of their list" so it is your contention we shouldnt make a real effort to sign any of them (i.e. overpay a bit) since they dont really want to be here anyways? That seems like someone who has drank too much of the Kool-Aid ;) (I know what you are saying I just think that is a bit too "We only want 'Twins Guys 'on our team" for my taste)

If the Twins want us to really believe they want to be more than just plucky little division champs they are gonna have to do more than sign a bunch of guys pushing 40 and cross their fingers every player on their roster has a similar year to last year.
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Bertogliat » Tue Jan 07 11:04 am

Handyman wrote:
Tue Jan 07 10:32 am
Beauner wrote:
Mon Jan 06 10:57 pm
JWG wrote:
Mon Jan 06 3:13 pm
Let's be clear that the Twins did not have the dollars necessary to stay under their self-imposed salary cap to sign Donaldson. He's demanding $100M over 4 years or so ($25M / year) and the Twins supposedly are looking to spend an additional $17M - $20M on their payroll. So, this will be another "we tried, we put up a competitive offer, he just didn't want to play here" scenario.

The Twins have to understand that all things equal in an offer, players may choose other locations due to weather, perception of team's commitment to winning, etc. and until the Twins actually make a bold move, no one has faith the really will. They're not going to get a grand slam ace at $17M a year, so if that self-imposed available spend is accurate - it feeds the narrative - the Twins are ok being ok.
It was reported by multiple outlets that the Twins offered JD 4/100.
Atlanta has now reportedly offered 4/105 to keep him in ATL, which is where he wanted to be if they'd meet the terms he wanted.

As others have said, we can't force guys to want to come here. And if the difference is 110 million here vs 100 million in his preferred destination, is the extra 10 million gonna be worth it to make a guy sign somewhere he doesn't really have at the top of his list?
No one is going to have us at the "top of their list" so it is your contention we shouldnt make a real effort to sign any of them (i.e. overpay a bit) since they dont really want to be here anyways? That seems like someone who has drank too much of the Kool-Aid ;) (I know what you are saying I just think that is a bit too "We only want 'Twins Guys 'on our team" for my taste)

If the Twins want us to really believe they want to be more than just plucky little division champs they are gonna have to do more than sign a bunch of guys pushing 40 and cross their fingers every player on their roster has a similar year to last year.
I like the excuse that nobody will play in MN because it's chilly in April and October.

Yet Chicago, NY, Detroit, Colorado are not an issue. Nor is playing in the heat of Texas all summer.

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by JWG » Tue Jan 07 11:46 am

Players know what we know, the Twins have not shown a commitment to winning on a consistent basis at the highest level. They’ve shown a commitment to contending in a middling division with medium market teams. So medium and middling talent is what we get. Either talent we drafted and control in our farm system or 38-40 year olds happy to still be given a major role, even if on a minor team.
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Norm » Tue Jan 07 12:56 pm

I happen to think October is our nicest month.

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Slap Shot » Tue Jan 07 1:00 pm

Handyman wrote:
Tue Jan 07 10:32 am
Beauner wrote:
Mon Jan 06 10:57 pm
JWG wrote:
Mon Jan 06 3:13 pm
Let's be clear that the Twins did not have the dollars necessary to stay under their self-imposed salary cap to sign Donaldson. He's demanding $100M over 4 years or so ($25M / year) and the Twins supposedly are looking to spend an additional $17M - $20M on their payroll. So, this will be another "we tried, we put up a competitive offer, he just didn't want to play here" scenario.

The Twins have to understand that all things equal in an offer, players may choose other locations due to weather, perception of team's commitment to winning, etc. and until the Twins actually make a bold move, no one has faith the really will. They're not going to get a grand slam ace at $17M a year, so if that self-imposed available spend is accurate - it feeds the narrative - the Twins are ok being ok.
It was reported by multiple outlets that the Twins offered JD 4/100.
Atlanta has now reportedly offered 4/105 to keep him in ATL, which is where he wanted to be if they'd meet the terms he wanted.

As others have said, we can't force guys to want to come here. And if the difference is 110 million here vs 100 million in his preferred destination, is the extra 10 million gonna be worth it to make a guy sign somewhere he doesn't really have at the top of his list?
No one is going to have us at the "top of their list" so it is your contention we shouldnt make a real effort to sign any of them (i.e. overpay a bit) since they dont really want to be here anyways? That seems like someone who has drank too much of the Kool-Aid ;) (I know what you are saying I just think that is a bit too "We only want 'Twins Guys 'on our team" for my taste)

If the Twins want us to really believe they want to be more than just plucky little division champs they are gonna have to do more than sign a bunch of guys pushing 40 and cross their fingers every player on their roster has a similar year to last year.
Isn't Donaldson pushing 40? :mrgreen:
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Maize » Tue Jan 07 1:15 pm

Bertogliat wrote:
Tue Jan 07 11:04 am


Yet Chicago, NY, Detroit, Colorado are not an issue. Nor is playing in the heat of Texas all summer.
Ah yes, noted World Series champions Detroit, Colorado, and Texas. By the way, Texas' two biggest free agents over the past two years have been: Kyle Gibson, and Lance Lynn.

We all understand that you think they need to SIGN MOAR GUYZ, mostly because you've posted it 5000 times in a row now. Like I said, name someone, literally anyone, *specifically* that you think they should have signed as a free agent that would have made them better and then maybe we could have a conversation here. But if you have nothing of value to add, please step aside.

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by J22 » Tue Jan 07 1:18 pm

Maize wrote:
Tue Jan 07 1:15 pm
Bertogliat wrote:
Tue Jan 07 11:04 am


Yet Chicago, NY, Detroit, Colorado are not an issue. Nor is playing in the heat of Texas all summer.
Ah yes, noted World Series champions Detroit, Colorado, and Texas. By the way, Texas' two biggest free agents over the past two years have been: Kyle Gibson, and Lance Lynn.

We all understand that you think they need to SIGN MOAR GUYZ, mostly because you've posted it 5000 times in a row now. Like I said, name someone, literally anyone, *specifically* that you think they should have signed as a free agent that would have made them better and then maybe we could have a conversation here. But if you have nothing of value to add, please step aside.
You really need to take your own advice on this one.

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Handyman » Tue Jan 07 2:02 pm

Slap Shot wrote:
Tue Jan 07 1:00 pm
Handyman wrote:
Tue Jan 07 10:32 am
Beauner wrote:
Mon Jan 06 10:57 pm
JWG wrote:
Mon Jan 06 3:13 pm
Let's be clear that the Twins did not have the dollars necessary to stay under their self-imposed salary cap to sign Donaldson. He's demanding $100M over 4 years or so ($25M / year) and the Twins supposedly are looking to spend an additional $17M - $20M on their payroll. So, this will be another "we tried, we put up a competitive offer, he just didn't want to play here" scenario.

The Twins have to understand that all things equal in an offer, players may choose other locations due to weather, perception of team's commitment to winning, etc. and until the Twins actually make a bold move, no one has faith the really will. They're not going to get a grand slam ace at $17M a year, so if that self-imposed available spend is accurate - it feeds the narrative - the Twins are ok being ok.
It was reported by multiple outlets that the Twins offered JD 4/100.
Atlanta has now reportedly offered 4/105 to keep him in ATL, which is where he wanted to be if they'd meet the terms he wanted.

As others have said, we can't force guys to want to come here. And if the difference is 110 million here vs 100 million in his preferred destination, is the extra 10 million gonna be worth it to make a guy sign somewhere he doesn't really have at the top of his list?
No one is going to have us at the "top of their list" so it is your contention we shouldnt make a real effort to sign any of them (i.e. overpay a bit) since they dont really want to be here anyways? That seems like someone who has drank too much of the Kool-Aid ;) (I know what you are saying I just think that is a bit too "We only want 'Twins Guys 'on our team" for my taste)

If the Twins want us to really believe they want to be more than just plucky little division champs they are gonna have to do more than sign a bunch of guys pushing 40 and cross their fingers every player on their roster has a similar year to last year.
Isn't Donaldson pushing 40? :mrgreen:
I also said I didn't really want Donaldson :shock:
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Beauner » Tue Jan 07 2:54 pm

Handyman wrote:
Tue Jan 07 10:32 am
Beauner wrote:
Mon Jan 06 10:57 pm
JWG wrote:
Mon Jan 06 3:13 pm
Let's be clear that the Twins did not have the dollars necessary to stay under their self-imposed salary cap to sign Donaldson. He's demanding $100M over 4 years or so ($25M / year) and the Twins supposedly are looking to spend an additional $17M - $20M on their payroll. So, this will be another "we tried, we put up a competitive offer, he just didn't want to play here" scenario.

The Twins have to understand that all things equal in an offer, players may choose other locations due to weather, perception of team's commitment to winning, etc. and until the Twins actually make a bold move, no one has faith the really will. They're not going to get a grand slam ace at $17M a year, so if that self-imposed available spend is accurate - it feeds the narrative - the Twins are ok being ok.
It was reported by multiple outlets that the Twins offered JD 4/100.
Atlanta has now reportedly offered 4/105 to keep him in ATL, which is where he wanted to be if they'd meet the terms he wanted.

As others have said, we can't force guys to want to come here. And if the difference is 110 million here vs 100 million in his preferred destination, is the extra 10 million gonna be worth it to make a guy sign somewhere he doesn't really have at the top of his list?
No one is going to have us at the "top of their list" so it is your contention we shouldnt make a real effort to sign any of them (i.e. overpay a bit) since they dont really want to be here anyways? That seems like someone who has drank too much of the Kool-Aid ;) (I know what you are saying I just think that is a bit too "We only want 'Twins Guys 'on our team" for my taste)

If the Twins want us to really believe they want to be more than just plucky little division champs they are gonna have to do more than sign a bunch of guys pushing 40 and cross their fingers every player on their roster has a similar year to last year.
Not at all. My contention is, and has been since Falvine took over, is signing the right guys. The guys with projectable skills that Johnson can work with to improve. Guys that may have a little rough around the edges to their swing but can be fixed by the hitting philosophy we saw put in place last offseason.

How many different times did I post about them needing to, and eventually cleaning house not just in the managerial staff and front office, but the entire organization? Down to the minor league strength coaches. And how many times did I mention bringing in guys that can develop existing talent within the organization and improve upon the mid-tier free agents we signed? Last year was essentially the first season with any of those major changes and they made a ridiculous jump from 2018 to 2019. Things like that need to continue. I'm of the belief that they will. The rest of the league apparently is too, as evidenced by the organization getting pilfered by other teams for some of their development coordinators.

Until the team shows the ability to compete year in and year out (like Houston did after they tore their entire system down and rebuilt) they're not going to be a destination. That means the coaching and training staff has to continue to make everyone in the organization better. Once they've done that, they're more likely to attract bigger offseason additions. This organization still has the stink of stagnation and complacency that stuck on them from Terry Ryan and the Gardenhire staff. Falvine and Rocco etc. made a great stride forward of washing that stink off of them. If the players in the organization continue to make strides to improve the way they did last year, this team will become a team that can attract bigger FAs just based on the fact that their organization isn't a flaming bag of turds with regards to player treatment and development.

TBH I don't think the players GAF about the weather here in April or October. It can get cold in more than half the cities in the league in those months. No matter where they sign, they're going to play cold weather games during the season.
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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Bertogliat » Tue Jan 07 3:16 pm

Maize wrote:
Tue Jan 07 1:15 pm
Bertogliat wrote:
Tue Jan 07 11:04 am


Yet Chicago, NY, Detroit, Colorado are not an issue. Nor is playing in the heat of Texas all summer.
Ah yes, noted World Series champions Detroit, Colorado, and Texas. By the way, Texas' two biggest free agents over the past two years have been: Kyle Gibson, and Lance Lynn.

We all understand that you think they need to SIGN MOAR GUYZ, mostly because you've posted it 5000 times in a row now. Like I said, name someone, literally anyone, *specifically* that you think they should have signed as a free agent that would have made them better and then maybe we could have a conversation here. But if you have nothing of value to add, please step aside.
I am not a sign moar guyz person, but I would like to see the Twins, for once, to sign a big FA pitcher. For once. Note MOAR.....one.

But you're being such a douche to say that no FA pitcher would sign here for any price, it's not worth it. Go troll elsewhere.

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Maize » Tue Jan 07 3:33 pm

Bertogliat wrote:
Tue Jan 07 3:16 pm
I am not a sign moar guyz person, but I would like to see the Twins, for once, to sign a big FA pitcher. For once. Note MOAR.....one.

But you're being such a douche to say that no FA pitcher would sign here for any price, it's not worth it. Go troll elsewhere.
I'm saying this high-end pitcher available on the free agent market that you keep imagining doesn't exist, outside of a unicorn like Gerrit Cole, which I think we all agree wasn't realistic. That is why, I think we're up to the third time now, whenever I ask you which guy, specifically, you wanted them to sign your only response is SIGN GUYZ.

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by bearpaw28 » Tue Jan 07 5:19 pm

Maize wrote:
Tue Jan 07 3:33 pm
Bertogliat wrote:
Tue Jan 07 3:16 pm
I am not a sign moar guyz person, but I would like to see the Twins, for once, to sign a big FA pitcher. For once. Note MOAR.....one.

But you're being such a douche to say that no FA pitcher would sign here for any price, it's not worth it. Go troll elsewhere.
I'm saying this high-end pitcher available on the free agent market that you keep imagining doesn't exist, outside of a unicorn like Gerrit Cole, which I think we all agree wasn't realistic. That is why, I think we're up to the third time now, whenever I ask you which guy, specifically, you wanted them to sign your only response is SIGN GUYZ.
You, more than most Maize, (should) understand that‘s Falvine job, not us Rubes. You want to find them faultless for not improving the starting pitching staff after winning 101 games, that’s your prerogative. Many of us simply disagree. ☝️

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Handyman » Tue Jan 07 8:00 pm

Bertogliat wrote:
Tue Jan 07 3:16 pm
Maize wrote:
Tue Jan 07 1:15 pm
Bertogliat wrote:
Tue Jan 07 11:04 am


Yet Chicago, NY, Detroit, Colorado are not an issue. Nor is playing in the heat of Texas all summer.
Ah yes, noted World Series champions Detroit, Colorado, and Texas. By the way, Texas' two biggest free agents over the past two years have been: Kyle Gibson, and Lance Lynn.

We all understand that you think they need to SIGN MOAR GUYZ, mostly because you've posted it 5000 times in a row now. Like I said, name someone, literally anyone, *specifically* that you think they should have signed as a free agent that would have made them better and then maybe we could have a conversation here. But if you have nothing of value to add, please step aside.
I am not a sign moar guyz person, but I would like to see the Twins, for once, to sign a big FA pitcher. For once. Note MOAR.....one.

But you're being such a douche to say that no FA pitcher would sign here for any price, it's not worth it. Go troll elsewhere.
This. I am never the guy whining about signing players but this is a bad failure and even the apologists can't deny that with a straight face. The Twins tried to get their bobos to mitigate the damage with rumors of trades and even that is looking like a total failure.

And who cares what Maize thinks? He changes allegiances faster than hockey teams change lines. The guy is a fraud of the highest order :lol:
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The entire above post is an opinion. If you disagree with me, that is aok by me :) :dup:

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Maize » Tue Jan 07 8:22 pm

bearpaw28 wrote:
Tue Jan 07 5:19 pm


You, more than most Maize, (should) understand that‘s Falvine job, not us Rubes. You want to find them faultless for not improving the starting pitching staff after winning 101 games, that’s your prerogative. Many of us simply disagree. ☝️
First, that's BS. You can search back and see Bertogliat throwing the exact same hissy fit when they "only" signed Nelson Cruz last winter, even though it's quite obvious he improved the team quite a bit.

Second, I never said they shouldn't try to upgrade. But throwing $20M+ at the next Yu Darvish, Jake Arrieta or Jeremy Hellickson in the free agent market has a pretty long track record of being the absolute worst way to do it.

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by frozen4champs » Fri Jan 10 11:36 am


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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by frozen4champs » Fri Jan 10 7:17 pm


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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Vegasgopher » Sat Jan 11 4:50 pm

frozen4champs wrote:
Fri Jan 10 7:17 pm
With them locking in sano and paying bux, rogers, Duffy, rosey, etc significantly more for next year (was announced today) they have the core locked in (they locked in polanco and Kepler last year)

Looks like no blockbuster pitcher which I'm really disappointed in. I want a guy that wants to be here

Gonna need another step from berrios, more of the same from Odo and pineada when he returns and 1 of the new guys to exceed why they hoped for. Never know, maybe graterol gives us 125 amazing innings (his stated innings limit for 2020 from the team) and he can take off from there year over year

Division very winnable, then maybe they go after a big pitcher at the deadline at a more friendly rate (two nations way)

Sucks but it's what we got and I'm a fan

Can't wait for my 3 spring training games! Gophs, braves, pirates. Cool

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by frozen4champs » Tue Jan 14 6:51 pm


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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by Greyeagle » Tue Jan 14 6:56 pm

frozen4champs wrote:
Tue Jan 14 6:51 pm
Can he pitch?
/PessimisticPuke. :mrgreen:
Row The Boat! Ski-U-MAH! Go Gophers!

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Re: Minnesota Twins 2014-2020: Here's Your Damn Thread

Post by davescharf » Tue Jan 14 6:57 pm

frozen4champs wrote:
Tue Jan 14 6:51 pm
Wow
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