Minnesota Twins 2014 - ∞: To Infinity & Beyond!

Post by **Gopher Hockey Rube** » Fri Jul 12 9:14 pm

Man I thought I was negative about the Twins, but I've got nothing on this group.

Post by **dryfly** » Fri Jul 12 9:22 pm

Listening to Bloomberg today as I drove home from a biz trip... they kept forgetting who the Yankees were playing tonight. Oh ya... that Minnesota team... errr... Twins.

Post by **Bushwood Gopher** » Fri Jul 12 10:16 pm

Gopher Hockey Rube wrote:Man I thought I was negative about the Twins, but I've got nothing on this group.

If being negative is pointing out completely unacceptable decision making, then color me negative I guess.

Cano has been to the plate three times tonight so far. The first two times nobody was on base, there were two outs and they pitched around him...essentially "unintentionally walking him on purpose"--WITH NOBODY ON BASE. The third time he gets up, Gardner is on 3rd with two outs and they come right at him. Which, of course, he promptly turns into a run scoring single. There is no justification for any of this. None. All of it completely ass backwards. It's a staggering level of stupidity and it needs to be pointed out.

Post by **Chris83** » Fri Jul 12 10:30 pm

Gopher Hockey Rube wrote:Man I thought I was negative about the Twins, but I've got nothing on this group.

I think the 166-247 record (soon to be 166-248) over the past two and a half years speaks for itself :lol:

Post by **Composer** » Fri Jul 12 10:34 pm

Aaron Hicks is no Ben Revere :shock:

Post by **F Da Sue** » Fri Jul 12 10:39 pm

Arcia with 11 K's in the last 3 games.

Post by **Bushwood Gopher** » Fri Jul 12 10:43 pm

F Da Sue wrote:Arcia with 11 K's in the last 3 games.

Getting publicly ragged on by his manager for a physical mistake probably wasn't the best thing for a young kid's confidence....

Post by **trixR4kids** » Fri Jul 12 11:10 pm

Bushwood Gopher wrote:
Gopher Hockey Rube wrote:Man I thought I was negative about the Twins, but I've got nothing on this group.

If being negative is pointing out completely unacceptable decision making, then color me negative I guess.

Cano has been to the plate three times tonight so far. The first two times nobody was on base, there were two outs and they pitched around him...essentially "unintentionally walking him on purpose"--WITH NOBODY ON BASE. The third time he gets up, Gardner is on 3rd with two outs and they come right at him. Which, of course, he promptly turns into a run scoring single. There is no justification for any of this. None. All of it completely ass backwards. It's a staggering level of stupidity and it needs to be pointed out.

Well they scored no runs the entire game...

I wouldn't exactly blame the strategy for this loss.

Post by **Bushwood Gopher** » Fri Jul 12 11:22 pm

trixR4kids wrote:
Bushwood Gopher wrote:
Gopher Hockey Rube wrote:Man I thought I was negative about the Twins, but I've got nothing on this group.

If being negative is pointing out completely unacceptable decision making, then color me negative I guess.

Cano has been to the plate three times tonight so far. The first two times nobody was on base, there were two outs and they pitched around him...essentially "unintentionally walking him on purpose"--WITH NOBODY ON BASE. The third time he gets up, Gardner is on 3rd with two outs and they come right at him. Which, of course, he promptly turns into a run scoring single. There is no justification for any of this. None. All of it completely ass backwards. It's a staggering level of stupidity and it needs to be pointed out.

Well they scored no runs the entire game...

I wouldn't exactly blame the strategy for this loss.

He should be held accountable for what he can control--strategic in game decision making. And on that front he is generally abysmal. Like the other night against TB when he walked a batter in front of Loney just to get Loney lefty vs lefty. I'm guessing he had absolutely no clue that Loney hits lefties 65 points higher than he does righties.

Nobody should fault the manager when his team doesn't hit. That doesn't even need to be said really.

Post by **Hobey Baker** » Sat Jul 13 4:07 am

Twins 19 for 107 with runners in scoring position the last 13 games (.178).

0 for 12 last night.

Arica has struck out in 7 consecutive at bats and 11 of 13.

Post by **Norm** » Sat Jul 13 8:39 am

Bushwood Gopher wrote:
Gopher Hockey Rube wrote:Man I thought I was negative about the Twins, but I've got nothing on this group.

If being negative is pointing out completely unacceptable decision making, then color me negative I guess.

Cano has been to the plate three times tonight so far. The first two times nobody was on base, there were two outs and they pitched around him...essentially "unintentionally walking him on purpose"--WITH NOBODY ON BASE. The third time he gets up, Gardner is on 3rd with two outs and they come right at him. Which, of course, he promptly turns into a run scoring single. There is no justification for any of this. None. All of it completely ass backwards. It's a staggering level of stupidity and it needs to be pointed out.

I like how Coomer referred to Cano's hit as a "bleeder." Looked to me like he hit it pretty hard.

Post by **sunbone** » Sat Jul 13 11:13 am

Bushwood Gopher wrote:
trixR4kids wrote:
Bushwood Gopher wrote:
Gopher Hockey Rube wrote:Man I thought I was negative about the Twins, but I've got nothing on this group.

If being negative is pointing out completely unacceptable decision making, then color me negative I guess.

Cano has been to the plate three times tonight so far. The first two times nobody was on base, there were two outs and they pitched around him...essentially "unintentionally walking him on purpose"--WITH NOBODY ON BASE. The third time he gets up, Gardner is on 3rd with two outs and they come right at him. Which, of course, he promptly turns into a run scoring single. There is no justification for any of this. None. All of it completely ass backwards. It's a staggering level of stupidity and it needs to be pointed out.

Well they scored no runs the entire game...

I wouldn't exactly blame the strategy for this loss.

He should be held accountable for what he can control--strategic in game decision making. And on that front he is generally abysmal. Like the other night against TB when he walked a batter in front of Loney just to get Loney lefty vs lefty. I'm guessing he had absolutely no clue that Loney hits lefties 65 points higher than he does righties.

Nobody should fault the manager when his team doesn't hit. That doesn't even need to be said really.

Right, we blame the hitting coach for that. :wink:

Post by **Bushwood Gopher** » Sat Jul 13 1:59 pm

No, I blame hitting coaches and consultants like Rod Carew for taking situational hitting philosophies and applying them non-situationally to all guys on the roster.

Post by **The Rube** » Sat Jul 13 2:15 pm

HORRIBLE call in the Twins game. And there goes Gardy. No surprise there.

What a joke this call was. "out of the baseline"?!?!

Post by **bearpaw28** » Sat Jul 13 2:48 pm

TWINS WIN...TWINS WIN ...LED BY SLUGGER PEDRO FLORIMONE!

Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn...occasionally :good2:

.

Post by **Composer** » Sat Jul 13 3:35 pm

Bushwood Gopher wrote:No, I blame hitting coaches and consultants like Rod Carew for taking situational hitting philosophies and applying them non-situationally to all guys on the roster.

Oh boy--now Rod Carew is the problem!

Post by **Bushwood Gopher** » Sat Jul 13 4:03 pm

Composer wrote:
Bushwood Gopher wrote:No, I blame hitting coaches and consultants like Rod Carew for taking situational hitting philosophies and applying them non-situationally to all guys on the roster.

Oh boy--now Rod Carew is the problem!

Feel free to draw your own conclusions...

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=t ... rdyshomers

“My first round of BP with the Twins, I was trying to (pull the ball), and Rod Carew and those guys call me over and say, `That’s not we want. We want line drives the other way,”’ Hardy said. “So that was my approach for the Twins.”

It’s a nearly identical story to that of slugger David Ortiz, who struggled with injuries and acclimating to the Twins’ emphasis on using the whole field. Then he moved to Boston, focused on pulling the ball, and became one of the most feared power hitters in the game.

“It just changed my approach,” Hardy said. “When I’d roll over a ball because I tried to drive it, (Orioles coaches) said, `Good, good. That’s all right. That’s going to happen.’

“If I rolled over a ball with the Twins, it was like, `Stay through it. Got to go the other way.”’

Post by **Dances With Gophers** » Sat Jul 13 5:20 pm

I think it's a foregone conclusion that Gardy is toast following this season. The real question is - who replaces him? Somebody from outside the organization, or somebody from within (my guess)? Molitor?

Post by **Handyman** » Sat Jul 13 5:41 pm

I dont think there is any way they fire Gardy...in fact unless they lose 110 games I would almost put money on it.

Post by **Hobey Baker** » Sat Jul 13 5:49 pm

Handyman wrote:I dont think there is any way they fire Gardy...in fact unless they lose 110 games I would almost put money on it.

I agree with you. The only name I have heard consistently is Molitor (even before Sids column).

Post by **Bushwood Gopher** » Sat Jul 13 7:31 pm

Handyman wrote:I dont think there is any way they fire Gardy...in fact unless they lose 110 games I would almost put money on it.

I don't either. Their rationale being anybody else in baseball would've lost 139 games with this team.

Post by **Gopher Hockey Rube** » Sat Jul 13 8:53 pm

Dances With Gophers wrote:I think it's a foregone conclusion that Gardy is toast following this season. The real question is - who replaces him? Somebody from outside the organization, or somebody from within (my guess)? Molitor?

Baby Jesus' brother.

Post by **gopher6** » Sun Jul 14 3:45 pm

do you believe in miracle's ? TWINKIES win 2 of 3 vs Yankees!!

Post by **Beauner** » Sun Jul 14 9:13 pm

Twins send down 3 young guys (Arcia, Parmelee, Escobar) and call up Hermann, Collabello, and Doug Bernier.

Makes a lot of sense for a team with no chance of competing to send down 3 young guys that could be with the team for the future for a 33 year old, a 29 year old and Chris Hermann... I don't get this organization at all...

Post by **Gopher Hockey Rube** » Sun Jul 14 9:52 pm

Beauner wrote:Twins send down 3 young guys (Arcia, Parmelee, Escobar) and call up Hermann, Collabello, and Doug Bernier.

Makes a lot of sense for a team with no chance of competing to send down 3 young guys that could be with the team for the future for a 33 year old, a 29 year old and Chris Hermann... I don't get this organization at all...

These guys are not doing themselves or the organization any good by struggling and sitting on the bench. They need to go down, get at bats, and hopefully come back with some confidence.

That being said, Arcia is the only one of the three who I see with a bright future in the major leagues. Parmalee has had 3 or 4 chances, and he looks no better now than the first time he came up. Escobar is a utility player at best in the major leagues.

Post by **MATT** » Sun Jul 14 10:57 pm

gopher6 wrote:do you believe in miracle's ? TWINKIES win 2 of 3 vs Yankees!!

From the PP: their first series victory in the Bronx since May 8-10, 2001. That was the year before Gardenhire took over for Tom Kelly
Gardy: To win a series here is not ever easy.
:lol:

Post by **The Rube** » Sun Jul 14 10:58 pm

MATT wrote:
gopher6 wrote:do you believe in miracle's ? TWINKIES win 2 of 3 vs Yankees!!

From the PP: their first series victory in the Bronx since May 8-10, 2001. That was the year before Gardenhire took over for Tom Kelly
Gardy: To win a series here is not ever easy.

EXTEND GARDY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by **Alby22** » Sun Jul 14 11:11 pm

Beauner wrote:Twins send down 3 young guys (Arcia, Parmelee, Escobar) and call up Hermann, Collabello, and Doug Bernier.

Makes a lot of sense for a team with no chance of competing to send down 3 young guys that could be with the team for the future for a 33 year old, a 29 year old and Chris Hermann... I don't get this organization at all...

Just seems like the organization is so scared to what they consider shattering confidence with young guys that they send them down instead of letting them fight through it in a lost season. Now one can question if these young guys will ever be good enough to be MLB players but if they can't handle a little adversity what good will they be in the future? Bringing up journeymen minor leaguers for young talent that's your future just cause they are struggling isn't the route id probably take.

Post by **gopherguy06** » Mon Jul 15 8:49 am

Saw this nugget on Star Tribune: The Twins are sending two of their own to the All-Star Game, in Joe Mauer and Glen Perkins. They can claim eight other alumni: Cuddyer, Grant Balfour, Jesse Crain, Carlos Gomez, Joe Nathan, David Ortiz, J.J. Hardy and Torii Hunter, all of whom have thrived after leaving behind Twinstripes. Oakland’s Balfour was added to the AL roster Sunday.

Post by **sunbone** » Mon Jul 15 1:07 pm

Gopher Hockey Rube wrote:
Beauner wrote:Twins send down 3 young guys (Arcia, Parmelee, Escobar) and call up Hermann, Collabello, and Doug Bernier.

Makes a lot of sense for a team with no chance of competing to send down 3 young guys that could be with the team for the future for a 33 year old, a 29 year old and Chris Hermann... I don't get this organization at all...

These guys are not doing themselves or the organization any good by struggling and sitting on the bench. They need to go down, get at bats, and hopefully come back with some confidence.

That being said, Arcia is the only one of the three who I see with a bright future in the major leagues. Parmalee has had 3 or 4 chances, and he looks no better now than the first time he came up. Escobar is a utility player at best in the major leagues.

Arcia had to go down. He has looked so over matched the last couple of weeks it is clear he isn't ready to be here. The rest of those guys it is sending junk down and calling junk up. Ryan should be embarrassed that any of those guys are on the roster.

Post by **Beauner** » Mon Jul 15 1:24 pm

Gopher Hockey Rube wrote:
Beauner wrote:Twins send down 3 young guys (Arcia, Parmelee, Escobar) and call up Hermann, Collabello, and Doug Bernier.

Makes a lot of sense for a team with no chance of competing to send down 3 young guys that could be with the team for the future for a 33 year old, a 29 year old and Chris Hermann... I don't get this organization at all...

These guys are not doing themselves or the organization any good by struggling and sitting on the bench. They need to go down, get at bats, and hopefully come back with some confidence.

That being said, Arcia is the only one of the three who I see with a bright future in the major leagues. Parmalee has had 3 or 4 chances, and he looks no better now than the first time he came up. Escobar is a utility player at best in the major leagues.

Not sure where you got the idea that they were sitting on the bench. Parmelee and Arcia are both playing quite consistently. The only one who is sitting is Escobar and that's pretty much the definition of what he is. He's a utility player that can play 3B, SS, 2B etc. if the regular starters need a break. Parmelee is 6th on the team in ABs and Arcia is averaging 3.5 plate appearances per game in the 59 games he's been with the squad.

As far as protecting the young guys to avoid shattering their confidence: They sure did a great job "protecting" Aaron Hicks, who is hitting .197 this season and started out 0 for his first 40 or whatever it was.

Arcia is struggling at the dish right now, there's no doubt about it. So they send him down to AAA when he could have 3 straight days working out at Target Field and working with Brunansky and breaking down tape? That just seems stupid. Then again, that's par for the course with our squad.

Post by **Gopher Hockey Rube** » Mon Jul 15 1:35 pm

Beauner wrote:
Gopher Hockey Rube wrote:
Beauner wrote:Twins send down 3 young guys (Arcia, Parmelee, Escobar) and call up Hermann, Collabello, and Doug Bernier.

Makes a lot of sense for a team with no chance of competing to send down 3 young guys that could be with the team for the future for a 33 year old, a 29 year old and Chris Hermann... I don't get this organization at all...

These guys are not doing themselves or the organization any good by struggling and sitting on the bench. They need to go down, get at bats, and hopefully come back with some confidence.

That being said, Arcia is the only one of the three who I see with a bright future in the major leagues. Parmalee has had 3 or 4 chances, and he looks no better now than the first time he came up. Escobar is a utility player at best in the major leagues.

Not sure where you got the idea that they were sitting on the bench. Parmelee and Arcia are both playing quite consistently. The only one who is sitting is Escobar and that's pretty much the definition of what he is. He's a utility player that can play 3B, SS, 2B etc. if the regular starters need a break. Parmelee is 6th on the team in ABs and Arcia is averaging 3.5 plate appearances per game in the 59 games he's been with the squad.

As far as protecting the young guys to avoid shattering their confidence: They sure did a great job "protecting" Aaron Hicks, who is hitting .197 this season and started out 0 for his first 40 or whatever it was.

Arcia is struggling at the dish right now, there's no doubt about it. So they send him down to AAA when he could have 3 straight days working out at Target Field and working with Brunansky and breaking down tape? That just seems stupid. Then again, that's par for the course with our squad.

Parmalee in the last 2 weeks has been getting less and less playing time, and Arcia was certainly going to see less playing time the way he was swinging the bat. Escobar who cares he's a dime a dozen player in the major leagues.

The negativity and vitriol towards every move this organization makes is ridiculous to me. Have they been perfect? No. But they are going through a rebuilding period, and unfortunately that takes time and the fans have to realize we aren't the Yankees and rough patches are going to happen. We had a nice run of 6 division titles in 9 years, and unfortunately we are on the other end currently.

Post by **bearpaw28** » Mon Jul 15 2:20 pm

Gopher Hockey Rube wrote:
Beauner wrote:
Gopher Hockey Rube wrote:
Beauner wrote:Twins send down 3 young guys (Arcia, Parmelee, Escobar) and call up Hermann, Collabello, and Doug Bernier.

Makes a lot of sense for a team with no chance of competing to send down 3 young guys that could be with the team for the future for a 33 year old, a 29 year old and Chris Hermann... I don't get this organization at all...

These guys are not doing themselves or the organization any good by struggling and sitting on the bench. They need to go down, get at bats, and hopefully come back with some confidence.

That being said, Arcia is the only one of the three who I see with a bright future in the major leagues. Parmalee has had 3 or 4 chances, and he looks no better now than the first time he came up. Escobar is a utility player at best in the major leagues.

Not sure where you got the idea that they were sitting on the bench. Parmelee and Arcia are both playing quite consistently. The only one who is sitting is Escobar and that's pretty much the definition of what he is. He's a utility player that can play 3B, SS, 2B etc. if the regular starters need a break. Parmelee is 6th on the team in ABs and Arcia is averaging 3.5 plate appearances per game in the 59 games he's been with the squad.

As far as protecting the young guys to avoid shattering their confidence: They sure did a great job "protecting" Aaron Hicks, who is hitting .197 this season and started out 0 for his first 40 or whatever it was.

Arcia is struggling at the dish right now, there's no doubt about it. So they send him down to AAA when he could have 3 straight days working out at Target Field and working with Brunansky and breaking down tape? That just seems stupid. Then again, that's par for the course with our squad.

Parmalee in the last 2 weeks has been getting less and less playing time, and Arcia was certainly going to see less playing time the way he was swinging the bat. Escobar who cares he's a dime a dozen player in the major leagues.

The negativity and vitriol towards every move this organization makes is ridiculous to me. Have they been perfect? No. But they are going through a rebuilding period, and unfortunately that takes time and the fans have to realize we aren't the Yankees and rough patches are going to happen. We had a nice run of 6 division titles in 9 years, and unfortunately we are on the other end currently.

I have no problem with sending these 3 guys down...WHAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH...is the organization making no moves of substance to improve the team this year...then Terry Ryan acting incredulous when they were 4 games under .500 saying we'll were not to .500 yet and acting (fake) UPSET ABOUT IT. This statement just preceded the joke slide the past 2 weeks to 14 games under .500 at the All-Star break. Question is based on the team the Twins put on the field this year...how could our GM with a straight face not EXPECT to about 10 games under .500 at the All star break? Answer: A GM who is trying to "flower the nuts" of the Twins FANS with bunch of BS about putting a competitive team on the field this year...then acting surprised when they crash and burn.

Post by **sunbone** » Mon Jul 15 2:50 pm

Beauner wrote:
Gopher Hockey Rube wrote:
Beauner wrote:Twins send down 3 young guys (Arcia, Parmelee, Escobar) and call up Hermann, Collabello, and Doug Bernier.

Makes a lot of sense for a team with no chance of competing to send down 3 young guys that could be with the team for the future for a 33 year old, a 29 year old and Chris Hermann... I don't get this organization at all...

These guys are not doing themselves or the organization any good by struggling and sitting on the bench. They need to go down, get at bats, and hopefully come back with some confidence.

That being said, Arcia is the only one of the three who I see with a bright future in the major leagues. Parmalee has had 3 or 4 chances, and he looks no better now than the first time he came up. Escobar is a utility player at best in the major leagues.

Not sure where you got the idea that they were sitting on the bench. Parmelee and Arcia are both playing quite consistently. The only one who is sitting is Escobar and that's pretty much the definition of what he is. He's a utility player that can play 3B, SS, 2B etc. if the regular starters need a break. Parmelee is 6th on the team in ABs and Arcia is averaging 3.5 plate appearances per game in the 59 games he's been with the squad.

As far as protecting the young guys to avoid shattering their confidence: They sure did a great job "protecting" Aaron Hicks, who is hitting .197 this season and started out 0 for his first 40 or whatever it was.

Arcia is struggling at the dish right now, there's no doubt about it. So they send him down to AAA when he could have 3 straight days working out at Target Field and working with Brunansky and breaking down tape? That just seems stupid. Then again, that's par for the course with our squad.

So spending more time with Bruno, who evidently is doing nothing to get through to him lately is the answer? Over going down to Rochester and actually playing in games? :confused2:

That kid is completely lost right now and needs to go down and get his head back together IMO.

Post by **ScoobyDoo** » Mon Jul 15 3:01 pm

Lost and Minnesota Twin's Player appear to be synonymous.

Post by **Bushwood Gopher** » Mon Jul 15 3:03 pm

Oswaldo Arcia needs Rochester because they don't try to hit 8 run home runs down there.

Post by **sunbone** » Mon Jul 15 3:21 pm

Bushwood Gopher wrote:Oswaldo Arcia needs Rochester because they don't try to hit 8 run home runs down there.

I know you hate Gardy but did you watch that at bat? He was 1000% correct. Of course by pointing that out he was "throwing the kid under the bus." Even though he was just pointing out what everyone can see with their own two eyes. I guess it is too harsh to point out he is striking out about 2/3 of his at bats lately.

Post by **Bushwood Gopher** » Mon Jul 15 3:55 pm

sunbone wrote:
Bushwood Gopher wrote:Oswaldo Arcia needs Rochester because they don't try to hit 8 run home runs down there.

I know you hate Gardy but did you watch that at bat? He was 1000% correct. Of course by pointing that out he was "throwing the kid under the bus." Even though he was just pointing out what everyone can see with their own two eyes. I guess it is too harsh to point out he is striking out about 2/3 of his at bats lately.

Yes I watched it. I suspect I've seen more games than just about anyone on this board notwithstanding my 'hatred' for all things Twins.

Like I said earlier, it was a ridiculously ironic comment ("swinging away like a madman when we only needed one run") coming from the guy who chose not to bunt in the top of the 9th with two on and no outs, needing just that same one run. Did he explain why he didn't bunt in an obvious bunting situation? Of course not. Did any reporter or beat writer bother to ask him why not? Of course not. I've noticed he's real good at taking digs at rookies and career minor leaguers. Not so much at himself or his veterans when they deserve it.

As far as Arcia's strikeouts, if he has a confidence problem (I keep hearing he needs the minors to improve his confidence) the question to ask might be 'why?' And was it helpful to his confidence that he was publicly called out by his manager for making what was essentially a physical mistake? I am far more accepting of physical mistakes from rookies than I am mental ones from veteran managers.

Post by **sunbone** » Mon Jul 15 4:11 pm

Bushwood Gopher wrote:
sunbone wrote:
Bushwood Gopher wrote:Oswaldo Arcia needs Rochester because they don't try to hit 8 run home runs down there.

I know you hate Gardy but did you watch that at bat? He was 1000% correct. Of course by pointing that out he was "throwing the kid under the bus." Even though he was just pointing out what everyone can see with their own two eyes. I guess it is too harsh to point out he is striking out about 2/3 of his at bats lately.

Yes I watched it. I suspect I've seen more games than just about anyone on this board notwithstanding my 'hatred' for all things Twins.

Like I said earlier, it was a ridiculously ironic comment ("swinging away like a madman when we only needed one run") coming from the guy who chose not to bunt in the top of the 9th with two on and no outs, needing just that same one run. Did he explain why he didn't bunt in an obvious bunting situation? Of course not. Did any reporter or beat writer bother to ask him why not? Of course not. I've noticed he's real good at taking digs at rookies and career minor leaguers. Not so much at himself or his veterans when they deserve it.

As far as Arcia's strikeouts, if he has a confidence problem (I keep hearing he needs the minors to improve his confidence) the question to ask might be 'why?' And was it helpful to his confidence that he was publicly called out by his manager for making what was essentially a physical mistake? I am far more accepting of physical mistakes from rookies than I am mental ones from veteran managers.

I just thought it was funny you accused him of "throwing him under the bus" when I saw what he said and it was very benign criticism of the kid. Gardy definitely takes more shots at the younger guys, I wouldn't doubt if he learned that from his predecessor. I don't like it much but I care very, very little what a manager or a player says after a game because it makes zero difference on the outcome of the game. And if you are implying that Arcia is striking out at a .667 clip lately because Gardenhire "threw him under the bus", which by the way was hyperbole on a DX level, then they might as well not send him down and just cut him because he has zero intestinal fortitude if he can't take that "ripping."

Post by **Beauner** » Mon Jul 15 5:05 pm

sunbone wrote:
Beauner wrote:
Gopher Hockey Rube wrote:
Beauner wrote:Twins send down 3 young guys (Arcia, Parmelee, Escobar) and call up Hermann, Collabello, and Doug Bernier.

Makes a lot of sense for a team with no chance of competing to send down 3 young guys that could be with the team for the future for a 33 year old, a 29 year old and Chris Hermann... I don't get this organization at all...

These guys are not doing themselves or the organization any good by struggling and sitting on the bench. They need to go down, get at bats, and hopefully come back with some confidence.

That being said, Arcia is the only one of the three who I see with a bright future in the major leagues. Parmalee has had 3 or 4 chances, and he looks no better now than the first time he came up. Escobar is a utility player at best in the major leagues.

Not sure where you got the idea that they were sitting on the bench. Parmelee and Arcia are both playing quite consistently. The only one who is sitting is Escobar and that's pretty much the definition of what he is. He's a utility player that can play 3B, SS, 2B etc. if the regular starters need a break. Parmelee is 6th on the team in ABs and Arcia is averaging 3.5 plate appearances per game in the 59 games he's been with the squad.

As far as protecting the young guys to avoid shattering their confidence: They sure did a great job "protecting" Aaron Hicks, who is hitting .197 this season and started out 0 for his first 40 or whatever it was.

Arcia is struggling at the dish right now, there's no doubt about it. So they send him down to AAA when he could have 3 straight days working out at Target Field and working with Brunansky and breaking down tape? That just seems stupid. Then again, that's par for the course with our squad.

So spending more time with Bruno, who evidently is doing nothing to get through to him lately is the answer? Over going down to Rochester and actually playing in games? That kid is completely lost right now and needs to go down and get his head back together IMO.

I'd say 3 days of working with a hitting coach, breaking down film, analyzing the way pitchers are attacking you and adjusting to that, and working in the cage is absolutely helpful.
Hell, one of the kids I coached last year texted me 3 weeks ago because he was frustrated at the way he was hitting (he said his average was .289 at the time). I worked with him 2 times over the next couple of days. From that time on he went on a streak of 20 hits in his next 23 at-bats.
It is certainly a different level of ball, but the point remains the same. For guys with a lot of talent, sometimes all it takes is a couple sessions with somebody being able to watch everything you're doing that knows your swing and can focus on it to get you back to being right.

I'd rather have him working with Bruno at Target Field than with whoever is the AAA hitting coach in Rochester over the all star break.

Post by **sunbone** » Mon Jul 15 5:56 pm

Well, with your track record maybe they should have Arcia work with you instead of Bruno. :wink:

I just think after watching how lost he is right now it isn't a ridiculous move to send the kid down. Just because the Twins made the move doesn't necessarily mean it is wrong. There is a very good chance it is wrong, but not 100%.

Post by **Beauner** » Mon Jul 15 6:26 pm

sunbone wrote:Well, with your track record maybe they should have Arcia work with you instead of Bruno. I just think after watching how lost he is right now it isn't a ridiculous move to send the kid down. Just because the Twins made the move doesn't necessarily mean it is wrong. There is a very good chance it is wrong, but not 100%.

I keep sending in my application but they keep rejecting it :anger:

I guess I'm just more frustrated that they basically said "Well screw you guys" to Parmelee and Arcia in a throw-away season when they could get a lot of experience at the MLB level. Parmelee has shown time and again that he can rake at AAA. Sending him back down there to hit against it again isn't going to do much for him IMHO.

For Arcia, it may end up being OK since he didn't spend a whole lot of time at AAA before joining the Twins, but the kid has already shown he can put up good numbers at the MLB level. Pitching staffs seem to be adjusting to him now and it's up to him to adjust to their adjustments. Rather than forcing him to adjust to the adjustments, the Twins just send him down to hit against pitchers who aren't as good. Meanwhile, they book is still going to be out there for any MLB pitcher to read on him when he gets called back up. I'd just rather see the adjustments made at the major league level where he's adjusting to the best pitchers on the planet.

Post by **Gopher Hockey Rube** » Mon Jul 15 6:30 pm

Beauner wrote:
sunbone wrote:Well, with your track record maybe they should have Arcia work with you instead of Bruno. I just think after watching how lost he is right now it isn't a ridiculous move to send the kid down. Just because the Twins made the move doesn't necessarily mean it is wrong. There is a very good chance it is wrong, but not 100%.

I keep sending in my application but they keep rejecting it

I guess I'm just more frustrated that they basically said "Well screw you guys" to Parmelee and Arcia in a throw-away season when they could get a lot of experience at the MLB level. Parmelee has shown time and again that he can rake at AAA. Sending him back down there to hit against it again isn't going to do much for him IMHO.

For Arcia, it may end up being OK since he didn't spend a whole lot of time at AAA before joining the Twins, but the kid has already shown he can put up good numbers at the MLB level. Pitching staffs seem to be adjusting to him now and it's up to him to adjust to their adjustments. Rather than forcing him to adjust to the adjustments, the Twins just send him down to hit against pitchers who aren't as good. Meanwhile, they book is still going to be out there for any MLB pitcher to read on him when he gets called back up. I'd just rather see the adjustments made at the major league level where he's adjusting to the best pitchers on the planet.

If I had a dollar for every guy who could light up AAA but not hit major league pitching, well you know the rest.

Post by **Beauner** » Mon Jul 15 6:37 pm

Gopher Hockey Rube wrote:
Beauner wrote:
sunbone wrote:Well, with your track record maybe they should have Arcia work with you instead of Bruno. I just think after watching how lost he is right now it isn't a ridiculous move to send the kid down. Just because the Twins made the move doesn't necessarily mean it is wrong. There is a very good chance it is wrong, but not 100%.

I keep sending in my application but they keep rejecting it

I guess I'm just more frustrated that they basically said "Well screw you guys" to Parmelee and Arcia in a throw-away season when they could get a lot of experience at the MLB level. Parmelee has shown time and again that he can rake at AAA. Sending him back down there to hit against it again isn't going to do much for him IMHO.

For Arcia, it may end up being OK since he didn't spend a whole lot of time at AAA before joining the Twins, but the kid has already shown he can put up good numbers at the MLB level. Pitching staffs seem to be adjusting to him now and it's up to him to adjust to their adjustments. Rather than forcing him to adjust to the adjustments, the Twins just send him down to hit against pitchers who aren't as good. Meanwhile, they book is still going to be out there for any MLB pitcher to read on him when he gets called back up. I'd just rather see the adjustments made at the major league level where he's adjusting to the best pitchers on the planet.

If I had a dollar for every guy who could light up AAA but not hit major league pitching, well you know the rest.

So then why send him back down to do what we already know he can do? Keep him up here, give him his ABs and let him show if he can hit big league pitching or if it's time to cut bait.

Post by **Gopher Hockey Rube** » Mon Jul 15 6:47 pm

Beauner wrote:
Gopher Hockey Rube wrote:
Beauner wrote:
sunbone wrote:Well, with your track record maybe they should have Arcia work with you instead of Bruno. I just think after watching how lost he is right now it isn't a ridiculous move to send the kid down. Just because the Twins made the move doesn't necessarily mean it is wrong. There is a very good chance it is wrong, but not 100%.

I keep sending in my application but they keep rejecting it

I guess I'm just more frustrated that they basically said "Well screw you guys" to Parmelee and Arcia in a throw-away season when they could get a lot of experience at the MLB level. Parmelee has shown time and again that he can rake at AAA. Sending him back down there to hit against it again isn't going to do much for him IMHO.

For Arcia, it may end up being OK since he didn't spend a whole lot of time at AAA before joining the Twins, but the kid has already shown he can put up good numbers at the MLB level. Pitching staffs seem to be adjusting to him now and it's up to him to adjust to their adjustments. Rather than forcing him to adjust to the adjustments, the Twins just send him down to hit against pitchers who aren't as good. Meanwhile, they book is still going to be out there for any MLB pitcher to read on him when he gets called back up. I'd just rather see the adjustments made at the major league level where he's adjusting to the best pitchers on the planet.

If I had a dollar for every guy who could light up AAA but not hit major league pitching, well you know the rest.

So then why send him back down to do what we already know he can do? Keep him up here, give him his ABs and let him show if he can hit big league pitching or if it's time to cut bait.

Because I think they've already come to the conclusion that he's not an everyday player at the major league level. I would not be surprised to see him traded within the next 6 months. I think they were hoping that he would step in for Morneau, and that obviously isn't happening.

As for why send him down, I think they still want to win ball games, and they're going to put together the best lineups they feel they currently can, and right now that doesn't include Arcia or Parmalee.

Post by **dryfly** » Mon Jul 15 8:23 pm

Wow - there are some really really long posts... can somebody sum it up for me in say 140 characters?

KThx...

Post by **Gopherguy05** » Mon Jul 15 8:48 pm

dryfly wrote:Wow - there are some really really long posts... can somebody sum it up for me in say 140 characters?

KThx...

Twins suck Gardy stupid Parmalee/arcia suck Twins front office stupid. Beauner hitting savant Twins think Beauner stupid.

Post by **davescharf** » Mon Jul 15 9:37 pm

Gopherguy05 wrote:
dryfly wrote:Wow - there are some really really long posts... can somebody sum it up for me in say 140 characters?

KThx...

Twins suck Gardy stupid Parmalee/arcia suck Twins front office stupid. Beauner hitting savant Twins think Beauner stupid.

You forgor Arcia traded before parmalee :lol:

Post by **monty** » Tue Jul 16 8:05 am

I doubt anybody on this board knows what is going on behind the scenes. For all we know the coaches have been trying to help Arcia adjust and he may not be listening to them. A trip to the minors might help him rethink this. As for Parmalee, if you read is comments in the paper the writer lead us to believe that Parmalee thinks is only problem is that he is not getting enough at bats. He thinks his swing is good and that every thing will be fine.

Post by **MATT** » Tue Jul 16 8:33 am

More on Gardy from AG last week:

With the Twins free-falling toward a third straight 90-loss season and Ron Gardenhire's job security becoming a popular topic locally I wondered how many managers in baseball history have avoided being fired after three consecutive 90-loss seasons ... it's happened a total of eight times since 1945:
Code: Select all
Larry Rothschild     Rays       1998-2000
Felipe Alou          Expos      1998-2000
Tom Kelly            Twins      1997-2000
Joe Torre            Mets       1978-1980
Darrell Johnson      Mariners   1977-1979
Preston Gomez        Padres     1969-1971
Casey Stengel        Mets       1962-1964
Zack Taylor          Browns     1948-1951
... five of the eight managers ... were fired by the middle of the next year.

Post by **Bushwood Gopher** » Tue Jul 16 10:40 am

monty wrote:I doubt anybody on this board knows what is going on behind the scenes. For all we know the coaches have been trying to help Arcia adjust and he may not be listening to them. A trip to the minors might help him rethink this. As for Parmalee, if you read is comments in the paper the writer lead us to believe that Parmalee thinks is only problem is that he is not getting enough at bats. He thinks his swing is good and that every thing will be fine.

I'm sure they have. Their track record with helping guys "adjust" has been well documented.

Post by **dryfly** » Tue Jul 16 11:57 am

monty wrote:I doubt anybody on this board knows what is going on behind the scenes. For all we know the coaches have been trying to help Arcia adjust and he may not be listening to them. A trip to the minors might help him rethink this. As for Parmalee, if you read is comments in the paper the writer lead us to believe that Parmalee thinks is only problem is that he is not getting enough at bats. He thinks his swing is good and that every thing will be fine.

If the past is any indication then the best way to fix them is to trade them - then they'll become a stars.

Post by **Handyman** » Tue Jul 16 1:13 pm

I always love that one!

Post by **Hobey Baker** » Tue Jul 16 2:58 pm

MATT wrote:More on Gardy from AG last week:
With the Twins free-falling toward a third straight 90-loss season and Ron Gardenhire's job security becoming a popular topic locally I wondered how many managers in baseball history have avoided being fired after three consecutive 90-loss seasons ... it's happened a total of eight times since 1945:
Code: Select all
Larry Rothschild     Rays       1998-2000
Felipe Alou          Expos      1998-2000
Tom Kelly            Twins      1997-2000
Joe Torre            Mets       1978-1980
Darrell Johnson      Mariners   1977-1979
Preston Gomez        Padres     1969-1971
Casey Stengel        Mets       1962-1964
Zack Taylor          Browns     1948-1951
... five of the eight managers ... were fired by the middle of the next year.

This reminds me of the Twins under TK .. I get the feeling Ryan is going to take all the blame for not giving Gardy the right mix to be successful.

Post by **Bushwood Gopher** » Tue Jul 16 3:21 pm

Terry Ryan, in his own words, said he and Ron Gardenhire are "joined at the hip."

I don't expect the Pohlads to fire Ryan. I don't expect Ryan to fire Gardenhire.

THE TWINS WAY

Post by **ScoobyDoo** » Tue Jul 16 3:32 pm

Pohlad's solution to the problem will be to cut the payroll even more than they have.

Post by **sunbone** » Tue Jul 16 4:31 pm

Bushwood Gopher wrote:Terry Ryan, in his own words, said he and Ron Gardenhire are "joined at the hip."

I don't expect the Pohlads to fire Ryan. I don't expect Ryan to fire Gardenhire.

THE TWINS WAY

If Ryan had any decency he would fire Gardenhire and then resign.

Post by **mjarz02** » Tue Jul 16 7:10 pm

I really hate Tim McCarver....that's why I love this video. For me he's right up there with Billy Packer as the worst announcers ever

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p8mXc4pfAo[/youtube]

Post by **streakygopher** » Tue Jul 16 7:19 pm

mjarz02 wrote:I really hate Tim McCarver....that's why I love this video. For me he's right up there with Billy Packer as the worst announcers ever

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p8mXc4pfAo[/youtube]

Seriously, you love this video? I don't think it matters what you think of Tim McCarver (I happen to like him), but to watch a little thug punk assault a middle aged man on camera makes my blood boil. Always thought Deion was a pu$$y show off, and this video pretty much capped it for me. I think the league should have fined his a$$ off for that. Now when I see Sanders on T.V. all I see is a poser wearing $3,000 suits, because his sense of inadequacy must be so rife he doesn't want anybody to peak inside.

Post by **mjarz02** » Tue Jul 16 7:33 pm

streakygopher wrote:
mjarz02 wrote:I really hate Tim McCarver....that's why I love this video. For me he's right up there with Billy Packer as the worst announcers ever

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p8mXc4pfAo[/youtube]

Seriously, you love this video? I don't think it matters what you think of Tim McCarver (I happen to like him), but to watch a little thug punk assault a middle aged man on camera makes my blood boil. Always thought Deion was a pu$$y show off, and this video pretty much capped it for me. I think the league should have fined his a$$ off for that. Now when I see Sanders on T.V. all I see is a poser wearing $3,000 suits, because his sense of inadequacy must be so rife he doesn't want anybody to peak inside.

Ohhh poor Timmy got a little wet, poor guy! That is far from assault. I loved Deion growing up and sure the guy has an ego but did you see him play? He wasn't called show time for nothin.

Post by **streakygopher** » Tue Jul 16 7:44 pm

Yeah, I saw him play. He was a show off punk then and he's a show off punk now. He couldn't tackle, which made him a defensive liability, and he was far from a star baseball player. He just had a big mouth and a touchdown jig that apparently some people thought was cute. And we'll have to disagree about the assault. That was classic bullying. I just wish he had done it to someone who could/would have beaten the crap out of him.

Post by **Superstar** » Tue Jul 16 8:20 pm

I understand the Twins have a lot of guys who go to other teams and end up turning into all-stars, but I just have to ask...what's the percentage of guys that leave the Twins and get good compared to other teams? Surely it happens elsewhere, I just wanna know how much more often it seems to happen to the Twins?

Post by **mjarz02** » Tue Jul 16 8:28 pm

Superstar wrote:I understand the Twins have a lot of guys who go to other teams and end up turning into all-stars, but I just have to ask...what's the percentage of guys that leave the Twins and get good compared to other teams? Surely it happens elsewhere, I just wanna know how much more often it seems to happen to the Twins?

Probably the same as the athletics or the marlins. It's the sad life of being a small/medium market team.

Post by **trixR4kids** » Tue Jul 16 8:36 pm

Yeah the A's have had a lot of good players leave. Matt Holiday, Teixera, Nick Swisher, and Josh Willingham just to name a few.

Post by **Master_Shake** » Tue Jul 16 9:12 pm

streakygopher wrote: which made him a defensive liability

LOL

The greatest cover corner perhaps ever and he was a defensive liability.

Post by **Handyman** » Wed Jul 17 10:19 am

mjarz02 wrote:
Superstar wrote:I understand the Twins have a lot of guys who go to other teams and end up turning into all-stars, but I just have to ask...what's the percentage of guys that leave the Twins and get good compared to other teams? Surely it happens elsewhere, I just wanna know how much more often it seems to happen to the Twins?

Probably the same as the athletics or the marlins. It's the sad life of being a small/medium market team.

There is a major difference between the Twins and the As/Marlins...they have no money cause they have no fans. (seriously their attendance is 90s Twins levels) The Twins are...or I should say WERE...making tons of money in the new stadium and refuse to reinvest it. They have essentially killed the goose that laid the golden egg by cutting payroll (what a surprise) and making the team a laughingstock. (again) Same family, different decade, same results.

It is their prerogative...but it is time to put the meme to rest. The Twins are small market because they choose to be.

Post by **trixR4kids** » Wed Jul 17 10:27 am

Yeah this a huge part of the reason the A's are looking to move to San Jose.

Post by **MATT** » Wed Jul 17 10:40 am

trixR4kids wrote:Yeah the A's have had a lot of good players leave. Matt Holiday, Teixera, Nick Swisher, and Josh Willingham just to name a few.

Holliday was on the As for half a season. Teixeira has played 0 games as an A. WIllingham had a 1 year pitstop.

Post by **MATT** » Wed Jul 17 10:41 am

I think the question is more of who did $h!t on the Twins and left then did much better elsewhere. A lot of the As & Marlins that left were doing pretty good in Oakland & Florida.

Post by **trixR4kids** » Wed Jul 17 10:50 am

MATT wrote:
trixR4kids wrote:Yeah the A's have had a lot of good players leave. Matt Holiday, Teixera, Nick Swisher, and Josh Willingham just to name a few.

Holliday was on the As for half a season. Teixeira has played 0 games as an A. WIllingham had a 1 year pitstop.

Ok apparently I was very wrong about Teixeira lol. Sorry about that. Maybe I confused him with Jason Giambi or something.

I wasn't trying to say the other two were mainstays but they were controlled by the team for at least brief periods of time but unfortunately they couldn't hold onto them longer. Johnny Damon was another player of note that they couldn't keep. Also various solid starting pitchers.

Post by **Beauner** » Wed Jul 17 10:59 am

[twitter=KFAN]St. Peter: "Frankly, we're very disappointed with how we've played in 2013." .... "By all means we think we can contend in 2014." #Twins[/twitter]

:lol:

Post by **Beauner** » Wed Jul 17 11:03 am

MATT wrote:
trixR4kids wrote:Yeah the A's have had a lot of good players leave. Matt Holiday, Teixera, Nick Swisher, and Josh Willingham just to name a few.

Holliday was on the As for half a season. Teixeira has played 0 games as an A. WIllingham had a 1 year pitstop.

And in fairness, Nick Swisher's 2 seasons where he had real good years after leaving Oakland both came in Yankee Stadium, where my dad could hit home runs.

My first thought was all those young pitchers they had. Zito, Mulder, Hudson, Gio Gonzalez... but Mulder really REALLY flamed out after leaving Oakland (I think he pitched for 3 more years after that and had an ERA over 7 for one of those seasons). Hudson has pretty much been the same pitcher he was in Oakland with ATL (seriously--his consistency is pretty astounding). Zito has clearly not been even close to what he was in Oakland with the Giants.

Post by **MATT** » Wed Jul 17 11:04 am

trixR4kids wrote:
MATT wrote:
trixR4kids wrote:Yeah the A's have had a lot of good players leave. Matt Holiday, Teixera, Nick Swisher, and Josh Willingham just to name a few.

Holliday was on the As for half a season. Teixeira has played 0 games as an A. WIllingham had a 1 year pitstop.

Ok apparently I was very wrong about Teixeira lol. Sorry about that. Maybe I confused him with Jason Giambi or something.

I wasn't trying to say the other two were mainstays but they were controlled by the team for at least brief periods of time but unfortunately they couldn't hold onto them longer. Johnny Damon was another player of note that they couldn't keep. Also various solid starting pitchers.

I knew what you meant, but you picked some wrong names

Post by **rowshkex** » Wed Jul 17 11:04 am

Beauner wrote:[twitter=KFAN]St. Peter: "Frankly, we're very disappointed with how we've played in 2013." .... "By all means we think we can contend in 2014." #Twins[/twitter]

That just goes to show you how out of touch with reality Twins management really is... And how desperate they are to maintain their fan base. :chainsaw:

Post by **Bushwood Gopher** » Wed Jul 17 11:41 am

rowshkex wrote:
Beauner wrote:[twitter=KFAN]St. Peter: "Frankly, we're very disappointed with how we've played in 2013." .... "By all means we think we can contend in 2014." #Twins[/twitter]

That just goes to show you how out of touch with reality Twins management really is... And how desperate they are to maintain their fan base.

St Peter is a North Dakota grad. Delusion runs deep over there.