Consumer Research

by **cavedog** » Fri 6/01/12 6:18 pm

New topic: Weed Wacker Trimmers

I may be the unluckiest person on earth with these damn devices. :chainsaw:

I've gone thru several, trying 2 cycle and the electric (corded and battery) models. Issues include problems starting the 2 cycles, having them stall/flood, smoke/noise, and the obvious limitations with electric models.

My current Toro rechargable died recently on me, refusing to take a charge so I again had to begin research for a replacement. I got frustrated today and decided to spend a bit more and buy a Honda trimmer w/4 cycle engine - it gets it's maiden run tomorrow! Anybody have experience with the Hondas? I'm expecting good things - I love my Honda mower.

by **dxmnkd316** » Fri 6/01/12 6:22 pm

cavedog wrote:New topic: Weed Wacker Trimmers

I may be the unluckiest person on earth with these damn devices. I've gone thru several, trying 2 cycle and the electric (corded and battery) models. Issues include problems starting the 2 cycles, having them stall/flood, smoke/noise, and the obvious limitations with electric models.

My current Toro rechargable died recently on me, refusing to take a charge so I again had to begin research for a replacement. I got frustrated today and decided to spend a bit more and buy a Honda trimmer w/4 cycle engine - it gets it's maiden run tomorrow! Anybody have experience with the Hondas? I'm expecting good things - I love my Honda mower.

I was starting to think about this as well. I'm not a fan of two-cycle engines. Anyone have any experience on four-cycles? I don't have a large lot and most of the stuff can be taken care of by a lawn mower. I just need it to tidy things up a bit (mostly against areas that no one sees anyways like the retaining wall and back corners inside my fence).

What are the issues you ran into with corded and cordless?

by **cavedog** » Fri 6/01/12 6:34 pm

Corded - dragging the long extension cord and not too powerful.

Rechargable - power and torque VERY lacking. Stopped taking a charge after 2 years.

Neither was good for all the fencelines on my corner lot - line broke on chainlink all the time.

by **dxmnkd316** » Fri 6/01/12 6:37 pm

I guess I'm not surprised about the battery dying after two years. That's pretty standard. I also think you're going to have the same problem with the line and fence no matter if it's a gas or electric.

Is the lack of power a big issue if you're only edging and cleaning up grass?

by **momo** » Fri 6/01/12 6:39 pm

I have everything Stihl, chainsaw,leaf blower,weed whip and edger, all start on the first pull and all are at least 7 years old.

by **cavedog** » Fri 6/01/12 6:43 pm

Edging is problematic. Need some horsepower for that typically. That's why they sell dedicated equip to edge sidewalks/driveways - the battery op trimmer would never do that - corded probably struggle. For me, it was multiple flowerbeds/fence lines that made it difficult.

My Stihl 2 cycle would laugh at the challenges I presented it but was a bear to start, despite several visits to the dealer for service. I still have that trimmer if there are any small engine experts out there that like french fried potaters and are interested in a project.

It probably needs a new plug and carb clean (AGAIN) to get some life.

by **Dolphin275** » Fri 6/01/12 6:44 pm

I've had a gas powered Homelite trimmer for 18 years. Still purs like a kitten.
I have no idea why, I beat the crap out of it... :good2:

by **Golden FE Ranger** » Fri 6/01/12 8:07 pm

momo wrote:I have everything Stihl, chainsaw,leaf blower,weed whip and edger, all start on the first pull and all are at least 7 years old.

I have several Stihl products and they are all great. The line trimmer I have is the FS 46. Pretty standard, nothing really fancy about it. They run about $179. I have a lot that is about an acre with part of it wooded, so it is not a major project. I trim around the house, some landscaping, gardens and the kids play set.

As far as problems with gas powered line trimmers, saws, ect., I would say that the vast majority of them are attributed to old or improperly mixed gas. I would not recommend mixing any more than a gallon of gas if you are using it sparingly and you should NEVER use last years after it sat all winter. Many people do, and most are probably fine, but for the little time and $3.50, it is not worth it. I have 2 cycle engines that specify a variety of mixes, and to simplify things I have switched to the Amsoil Saber 100:1 2 cycle oil (http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atp.aspx). It is a leaner mixture, thus you have less smoke. You can also get 1.5 ounce packets that mix with 1 gallon of gas making things simple.

by **momo** » Fri 6/01/12 8:18 pm

What is your mix ratio for your stihl's?

by **Golden FE Ranger** » Fri 6/01/12 8:23 pm

momo wrote:What is your mix ratio for your stihl's?

Stihl recommends 50:1 and I had always used that until I started with the Amsoil. Now I run it all at 100:1. It sounds crazy, but it seems to work well. I have a friend who is a small engine mechanic. He told the Amsoil dealer he would kill him if he ever had trouble with an engine (fuel related) after switching. After 4 yrs, the dealer is still alive and I am convinced. It makes life simpler, and I am all for that.

by **cavedog** » Fri 6/01/12 8:24 pm

FS 55 RC for sale

by **dxmnkd316** » Sun 6/03/12 7:22 pm

So I went ahead and bought the FastTrack system. I bought three 48" rails and an 84" rail and about eight hooks of varying styles. I love the thing already.

My only regret is not getting two of the 84" rails. Now that I know I can fit the 84" rail in my Mustang I have no problems getting more of these things. I was going to buy some of the vertical members and install a few of the shelves but the Home Depot I went to didn't have any of them in stock.

My only complaint is the POS black anchor key. Completely worthless.

A bit of a pain in the ass to install since I couldn't find my impact driver bits. Had to go old school with the screw driver and the recommended 1/8" pilot holes probably could have been 9/64". Whatever though. Once I put on the work gloves it was easier.

If you do go in on a FastTrack system, I recommend installing the top corner on either of the two ends, leveling the rail, and get a screw in just enough to support the rail. Then mark off the remaining anchor and stud holes you need to drill. Take out the latter screw and then drill the remaining holes.

by **Jupiter** » Mon 6/04/12 8:59 am

I think the key for all things run by gas is to make sure to get that gas out of the system. I have found that simply letting it run until it runs out of gas at the end of each season works wonders. For me, that's the trimmer and snowblower. In the spring I let the snow blower run out of gas. The next winter when I fire it up again it usually starts on the first or second pull. The trimmer is much more sensitive. It make take a minute or two to start, but that is a ton better than it taking 20 minutes to start and causing my arm to turn in to jell-o.

by **Zwak** » Mon 6/04/12 9:31 am

Jupiter wrote:I think the key for all things run by gas is to make sure to get that gas out of the system. I have found that simply letting it run until it runs out of gas at the end of each season works wonders. For me, that's the trimmer and snowblower. In the spring I let the snow blower run out of gas. The next winter when I fire it up again it usually starts on the first or second pull. The trimmer is much more sensitive. It make take a minute or two to start, but that is a ton better than it taking 20 minutes to start and causing my arm to turn in to jell-o.

I have a Craftsman gas trimmer that uses 40:1 ratio. I used to have a small gas can that I would use to mix the gas & oil mixture. Menards now sells premixed gas/oil mixtures in 40:1 and 50:1 ratios which I really like. Instead of filling up a gas tank and buying separate oil that will likely sit in the can over the winter, I buy a can of the premixed stuff and it gets me through the year with not much sitting over the winter.

by **Bertogliat** » Mon 6/04/12 12:14 pm

cavedog wrote:Edging is problematic. Need some horsepower for that typically. That's why they sell dedicated equip to edge sidewalks/driveways - the battery op trimmer would never do that - corded probably struggle. For me, it was multiple flowerbeds/fence lines that made it difficult.

My Stihl 2 cycle would laugh at the challenges I presented it but was a bear to start, despite several visits to the dealer for service. I still have that trimmer if there are any small engine experts out there that like french fried potaters and are interested in a project. It probably needs a new plug and carb clean (AGAIN) to get some life.

I worked for a parks department for 4 years during college. I always found the key to using a trimmer was to generallyto use a trim line with a "star" shaped profile (as it cuts the grass easier) and to use LOW rpm. You don't need to go fast to cut grass, unless you're trying to barrel through in record time. The low RPM saves on the tree/edging/garden gnome and will still cut. Plus you'll go through a lot less line.

I have to admit I have not used an electric trimmer in 20 years though.

by **Slap Shot** » Mon 6/04/12 4:56 pm

I never drain the gas, but I use stabil every time I buy gas for the equipment and I've never not had something start the next season.

by **cavedog** » Mon 6/04/12 6:51 pm

Slap Shot wrote:I never drain the gas, but I use stabil every time I buy gas for the equipment and I've never not had something start the next season.

Yeah, I've read that as long as the fuel is fortified with stabil and the tank is full, fuel oxidation is at a minimum. It's empty space in the gas tank that allows oxidation to begin in the first place. Empty or full with fuel stabilizer, you're probably safe.

Reminder - Stihl trimmer for sale - I'll sell at a cut rate price to get this thing outta my garage before moving in July.

by **Orion** » Mon 6/04/12 8:15 pm

I think I already know my answer, but anyone have advice on an electric brad nailer? I have one room to trim and I don't want to buy a pnuematic nailer and compressor for 60 ft of trim

by **HockeyBum** » Wed 6/06/12 6:35 pm

So I went to Cub Foods this morning for a few items only because Target isn't open at 6:30AM. I probably haven't set foot in Cub in about a year (ever since they put a full grocery department into the Target near my house, we usually buy all of our groceries there). I was stunned at how much more expensive Cub is than Target. It's not just a few pennies... it's 25% or more on many items.

How in the world does Cub (SuperValu) stay in business? Who shops there? I know they've been bleeding money for awhile now, and I guess I can see why.

by **Slap Shot** » Wed 6/06/12 7:11 pm

HockeyBum wrote:How in the world does Cub (SuperValu) stay in business? Who shops there? I know they've been bleeding money for awhile now, and I guess I can see why.

Until Target can open an equal number of locations it's probably the better option for many?

(I have no idea if that's the case, but I have at least 2 Cubs, a Rainbow and a Festival closer to me than a Target with food)

by **Golden FE Ranger** » Wed 6/06/12 7:50 pm

HockeyBum wrote:So I went to Cub Foods this morning for a few items only because Target isn't open at 6:30AM. I probably haven't set foot in Cub in about a year (ever since they put a full grocery department into the Target near my house, we usually buy all of our groceries there). I was stunned at how much more expensive Cub is than Target. It's not just a few pennies... it's 25% or more on many items.

How in the world does Cub (SuperValu) stay in business? Who shops there? I know they've been bleeding money for awhile now, and I guess I can see why.

It depends how you shop. My wife is really good about stocking up on things that are on sale. If you are willing to do that, Cub will beat Target prices by a long shot. If you are going to go by the everyday prices, Target is probably a better bet.

by **davescharf** » Wed 6/06/12 9:15 pm

Golden FE Ranger wrote:
HockeyBum wrote:So I went to Cub Foods this morning for a few items only because Target isn't open at 6:30AM. I probably haven't set foot in Cub in about a year (ever since they put a full grocery department into the Target near my house, we usually buy all of our groceries there). I was stunned at how much more expensive Cub is than Target. It's not just a few pennies... it's 25% or more on many items.

How in the world does Cub (SuperValu) stay in business? Who shops there? I know they've been bleeding money for awhile now, and I guess I can see why.

It depends how you shop. My wife is really good about stocking up on things that are on sale. If you are willing to do that, Cub will beat Target prices by a long shot. If you are going to go by the everyday prices, Target is probably a better bet.

I would argue even a lot of Cub's prices aren't much cheaper than Target when items are on sale. There are some but I don't think it's a significant amount when you consider the entirety of a normal family shopping trip.

We have a SuperTarget, Cub, and Rainbow all within 1.5 miles of our house. I usually only go to Cub if I need 1-2 things and Rainbow if I'm picking up a bunch of stuff and Target is out of 1-2 things or doesn't carry them because they're a little obscure. Even after I quit working for Target (before the 5% red card discount) I was amazed at how much those 1-2 things at Cub and Rainbow frequently cost me when I go there. I even look around a little bit while there and see some prices that make me wonder how they can stay in Business.

Keep in mind too that SuperValu does a big distribution business. In a lot of markets they were distributing Target's perishable items and some of their grocery stuff before they began doing it out of their own distribution centers. Even today they still distribute a lot of the perishables because Target only has a couple distribution centers setup to handle frozen food and perishables.

by **Beauner** » Wed 6/06/12 9:21 pm

Golden FE Ranger wrote:
HockeyBum wrote:So I went to Cub Foods this morning for a few items only because Target isn't open at 6:30AM. I probably haven't set foot in Cub in about a year (ever since they put a full grocery department into the Target near my house, we usually buy all of our groceries there). I was stunned at how much more expensive Cub is than Target. It's not just a few pennies... it's 25% or more on many items.

How in the world does Cub (SuperValu) stay in business? Who shops there? I know they've been bleeding money for awhile now, and I guess I can see why.

It depends how you shop. My wife is really good about stocking up on things that are on sale. If you are willing to do that, Cub will beat Target prices by a long shot. If you are going to go by the everyday prices, Target is probably a better bet.

Coupons. Clipping coupons probably saves our family 150-200 bucks a month for the groceries we buy from Cub.

by **The Rube** » Wed 6/06/12 9:30 pm

Loyalty is still a factor for shoppers. I never was a fan of Cub, I don't know why, I just wasn't. I have shopped at Rainbow for years. Their Roundy's generic brand makes quality stuff for certain things, also.

And Target hasn't been in the grocery business that long (comparitively) so oftentimes, I bet people don't even think about them when they think "I need to go grocery shopping." I know I don't.

by **Golden FE Ranger** » Wed 6/06/12 10:00 pm

Beauner wrote:
Golden FE Ranger wrote:
HockeyBum wrote:So I went to Cub Foods this morning for a few items only because Target isn't open at 6:30AM. I probably haven't set foot in Cub in about a year (ever since they put a full grocery department into the Target near my house, we usually buy all of our groceries there). I was stunned at how much more expensive Cub is than Target. It's not just a few pennies... it's 25% or more on many items.

How in the world does Cub (SuperValu) stay in business? Who shops there? I know they've been bleeding money for awhile now, and I guess I can see why.

It depends how you shop. My wife is really good about stocking up on things that are on sale. If you are willing to do that, Cub will beat Target prices by a long shot. If you are going to go by the everyday prices, Target is probably a better bet.

Coupons. Clipping coupons probably saves our family 150-200 bucks a month for the groceries we buy from Cub.

by **dxmnkd316** » Wed 6/06/12 10:10 pm

Holy s**t. How on earth do you save $200 a month?

by **rowshkex** » Wed 6/06/12 11:20 pm

Don't give dx any ideas...

by **rowshkex** » Wed 6/06/12 11:20 pm

The Rube wrote:Loyalty is still a factor for shoppers. I never was a fan of Cub, I don't know why, I just wasn't. I have shopped at Rainbow for years. Their Roundy's generic brand makes quality stuff for certain things, also.

And Target hasn't been in the grocery business that long (comparitively) so oftentimes, I bet people don't even think about them when they think "I need to go grocery shopping." I know I don't.

Those Roundy's multi-colored gummy bears are dangerous.

by **Bertogliat** » Thu 6/07/12 7:50 am

We shop at Target for groceries quite a bit, but their selection sucks. The deli is average at best and the meat department is not good. Cheese that is better than Kraft or Sergento? No. If you want anything resembling decent mexican or asian food, forget it. If you want a vegetable beyond carrots and celery- go somewhere else. My friend is a buyer for target and he told me they made little to no money on groceries. They use groceries to get people in the store. At the beginning they were bleeding money because they didn't know how to manage perishibles very well. I can see how this would be a problem for Cub/Rainbow.

We shop there for most of our stuff, but if Target drives the others out of business with lower prices, then I see us going back to the days of needing a seperate butcher, etc.

by **Luckygirl#13** » Thu 6/07/12 10:26 am

Me and my friends buy steaks at Target all the time and they are awesome!! I've never had a problem with any of thier meat and it's alot cheaper than Cub.

Have any of you shopped at an ALDI??? Now that's a place where you will save alot ot money!! They don't have a huge selection, but thier prices can't be beat. And I've been happy with everything I've bought there.....from Cereal to condiments....to cheese and avocados. Just remember to bring your own bag and a quarter for the cart. Well worth it!! :dup:

by **Kelly Red** » Thu 6/07/12 11:14 am

Luckygirl#13 wrote:Me and my friends buy steaks at Target all the time and they are awesome!! I've never had a problem with any of thier meat and it's alot cheaper than Cub.

Have any of you shopped at an ALDI??? Now that's a place where you will save alot ot money!! They don't have a huge selection, but thier prices can't be beat. And I've been happy with everything I've bought there.....from Cereal to condiments....to cheese and avocados. Just remember to bring your own bag and a quarter for the cart. Well worth it!!

I discovered Aldi when on a trip in Germany. I was there around the holidays and couldn't believe the CHEAP Christmas cookies, candy and cakes. Fabulous taste and so inexpensive, boxes of marzipan for 1 or 2 euros, gingerbread cut out cookies for almost the same. I make a special trip to the Aldi on Lake St in December to stock up.

by **streakygopher** » Thu 6/07/12 11:18 am

Bertogliat wrote:We shop at Target for groceries quite a bit, but their selection sucks. The deli is average at best and the meat department is not good. Cheese that is better than Kraft or Sergento? No. If you want anything resembling decent mexican or asian food, forget it. If you want a vegetable beyond carrots and celery- go somewhere else. My friend is a buyer for target and he told me they made little to no money on groceries. They use groceries to get people in the store. At the beginning they were bleeding money because they didn't know how to manage perishibles very well. I can see how this would be a problem for Cub/Rainbow.

We shop there for most of our stuff, but if Target drives the others out of business with lower prices, then I see us going back to the days of needing a seperate butcher, etc.

Yeah, Target has a limited grocery selection. They don't run nearly as many coupon sales as Cub, and I actually think Cub has a wider and deeper selection of fruit and veggies. Neither one has squat for fresh fish and seafood, so I usually go to Byerly's, Whole Foods or Coastal for that. I don't think there's a clear favorite here....Cub meats are expensive without coupons, though. I've noticed COSTCO has a lot of decent looking fresh meat, but it's probably pumped up with more growth hormones that Andre the Giant.

by **greydogg** » Thu 6/07/12 11:51 am

dxmnkd316 wrote:Holy s**t. How on earth do you save $200 a month?

http://www.pocketyourdollars.com/

by **greydogg** » Thu 6/07/12 12:00 pm

Also a another little know fact, Target will take expired coupons most of the time.

The wife has been using pocket your dollars for about 8 months and shops at Rainbow on double coupon day (Wed and sometimes Sat). She will come home 2-3 bags of groceries for like $20-25 range that is with fresh fruit and veggies. That lady that runs that site is a coupon genius.

http://www.pocketyourdollars.com/

by **Chris83** » Thu 6/07/12 12:08 pm

Luckygirl#13 wrote:Me and my friends buy steaks at Target all the time and they are awesome!! I've never had a problem with any of thier meat and it's alot cheaper than Cub.

Have any of you shopped at an ALDI??? Now that's a place where you will save alot ot money!! They don't have a huge selection, but thier prices can't be beat. And I've been happy with everything I've bought there.....from Cereal to condiments....to cheese and avocados. Just remember to bring your own bag and a quarter for the cart. Well worth it!!

My wife and I shop primarily at Aldi now. We go to Cub/Rainbow/Coborns only for the weekly deals or coupon promos. It has saved us a TON of $$$ each month.

One place that actually has good prices on dairy is Kwik Trip. We buy our milk, butter and eggs there.

by **dxmnkd316** » Thu 6/07/12 6:04 pm

greydogg wrote:
dxmnkd316 wrote:Holy s**t. How on earth do you save $200 a month?

http://www.pocketyourdollars.com/

Again, I abuse the Cub coupons and sales. There is no way on earth someone could SAVE $200 a month unless they were spending an insane amount of money.

by **Golden FE Ranger** » Fri 6/08/12 7:25 am

dxmnkd316 wrote:
greydogg wrote:
dxmnkd316 wrote:Holy s**t. How on earth do you save $200 a month?

http://www.pocketyourdollars.com/

Again, I abuse the Cub coupons and sales. There is no way on earth someone could SAVE $200 a month unless they were spending an insane amount of money.

Wait until you are shopping for more than one mouth.

by **Bertogliat** » Fri 6/08/12 8:08 am

Golden FE Ranger wrote:
dxmnkd316 wrote:
greydogg wrote:
dxmnkd316 wrote:Holy s**t. How on earth do you save $200 a month?

http://www.pocketyourdollars.com/

Again, I abuse the Cub coupons and sales. There is no way on earth someone could SAVE $200 a month unless they were spending an insane amount of money.

Wait until you are shopping for more than one mouth.

The cost of having kids is all that it is advertised and more. I thank the Lord my kids don't yet appreciate that taste of steak or seafood.

I can't wait until the day I get out from under my day care payments. I can pay for 2 new cars with the money I save in day care payments.

by **davescharf** » Fri 6/08/12 8:25 am

Bertogliat wrote:
Golden FE Ranger wrote:
dxmnkd316 wrote:
greydogg wrote:
dxmnkd316 wrote:Holy s**t. How on earth do you save $200 a month?

http://www.pocketyourdollars.com/

Again, I abuse the Cub coupons and sales. There is no way on earth someone could SAVE $200 a month unless they were spending an insane amount of money.

Wait until you are shopping for more than one mouth.

The cost of having kids is all that it is advertised and more. I thank the Lord my kids don't yet appreciate that taste of steak or seafood.

I can't wait until the day I get out from under my day care payments. I can pay for 2 new cars with the money I save in day care payments.

This. A second day care bill is an extremely effective form of birth control.

by **Beauner** » Fri 6/08/12 3:00 pm

dxmnkd316 wrote:
greydogg wrote:
dxmnkd316 wrote:Holy s**t. How on earth do you save $200 a month?

http://www.pocketyourdollars.com/

Again, I abuse the Cub coupons and sales. There is no way on earth someone could SAVE $200 a month unless they were spending an insane amount of money.

5 people in one house, buying groceries twice a month. He probably spends about 250 bucks each time, saving 75-85.

by **murrster** » Sun 6/17/12 10:49 am

Sorry to break up the extreme couponing discussion, but I have a home electronics question. My wife and I recently purchased a home, and the house has built-in surround sound in both living rooms and a bedroom. In one living room, there are 5 speakers in the ceiling (two in front, three in back). In the other, there are seven speakers in the ceiling.

1) I need a receiver. What is a good brand? We won't be watching countless action flicks, but we would like something that's pretty good quality.

2) Do I need a subwoofer?

by **Orion** » Sun 6/17/12 12:12 pm

murrster wrote:Sorry to break up the extreme couponing discussion, but I have a home electronics question. My wife and I recently purchased a home, and the house has built-in surround sound in both living rooms and a bedroom. In one living room, there are 5 speakers in the ceiling (two in front, three in back). In the other, there are seven speakers in the ceiling.

1) I need a receiver. What is a good brand? We won't be watching countless action flicks, but we would like something that's pretty good quality.

2) Do I need a subwoofer?

I have a pioneer I have had for years and like. You will need to buy one that has enough wattage to drive all those speakers. Yes you need a subwoofer. Shake the windows and enjoy.

by **The Rube** » Sun 6/17/12 12:35 pm

I've never gone wrong with Sony, although I know that they are run-of-the-mill for quality. If you're an audiophile, you probably want something more high-end.

by **dxmnkd316** » Sun 6/17/12 6:25 pm

I, on the other hand, would never give Sony another penny of my money when it comes to electronics (save for maybe a PS4). Their quality peaked in the late 90s to early 2000s. I don't regard their products as reliable at all. We've had a number of TVs, phones, and receivers of theirs that died prematurely. I wouldn't so much as buy a coffee maker from them. Never again.

YMMV.

by **murrster** » Sun 6/17/12 6:55 pm

dxmnkd316 wrote:I, on the other hand, would never give Sony another penny of my money when it comes to electronics (save for maybe a PS4). Their quality peaked in the late 90s to early 2000s. I don't regard their products as reliable at all. We've had a number of TVs, phones, and receivers of theirs that died prematurely. I wouldn't so much as buy a coffee maker from them. Never again.

YMMV.

What would you recommend for a stereo receiver? Yamaha?

by **dxmnkd316** » Sun 6/17/12 6:58 pm

Honestly? I have no idea. I'm still trying to find the perfect brand not named McIntosh (for shame if anyone confuses this with Apple).

by **Chris83** » Sun 6/17/12 7:24 pm

murrster wrote:Sorry to break up the extreme couponing discussion, but I have a home electronics question. My wife and I recently purchased a home, and the house has built-in surround sound in both living rooms and a bedroom. In one living room, there are 5 speakers in the ceiling (two in front, three in back). In the other, there are seven speakers in the ceiling.

1) I need a receiver. What is a good brand? We won't be watching countless action flicks, but we would like something that's pretty good quality.

2) Do I need a subwoofer?

I used to purchase a lot of Sony electronics until 2006. I bought a SXRD KDS-50A2000 HDTV in September of 2006; turns out Sony was using faulty optical block technology in their SXRD line and they knew it. They were slapped with several class action lawsuits and had to exchange thousands of the sets, all the while claiming there was nothing wrong with the technology. Anyway, no more Sony for me.

I purchased a Yamaha RX-V465 5.1 receiver a couple years ago and could not be more pleased. I run my Samsung HDTV and Blu-ray, Dish DVR and Wii through it with my Polk speakers and subwoofer and it rocks the house.

A big YES to the subwoofer.

by **dxmnkd316** » Sun 6/17/12 7:31 pm

Sony has taken a typical Japanese manufacturer's approach to their customer's complaints: "There is never anything wrong with our product. It works as intended. It's your problem, not ours." It's just the way their culture works. We had a similar experience with one of our receivers. It had a terrible overheating problem and eventually we found the solution on the internet. Sony denied like crazy.

I've noticed them taking it more and more with their products when it's absolutely clear it's Sony's shoddy products that are the problem.

by **Orion** » Sun 6/17/12 8:00 pm

murrster wrote:
dxmnkd316 wrote:I, on the other hand, would never give Sony another penny of my money when it comes to electronics (save for maybe a PS4). Their quality peaked in the late 90s to early 2000s. I don't regard their products as reliable at all. We've had a number of TVs, phones, and receivers of theirs that died prematurely. I wouldn't so much as buy a coffee maker from them. Never again.

YMMV.

What would you recommend for a stereo receiver? Yamaha?

Sorry for the short reply earlier I was on my phone and it's a pain to do long posts. Some brands have two levels of quality equipment. Pioneer has the main line and then their Elite series. I have a Pioneer Elite and haven't had any issues in over ten years. Yamaha also makes very good equipment. The big things to keep in mind are get one with enough power on the amplifier to fully drive all your speakers. Even though you won't ever crank it up all the way, the power is cleaner and results in less distortion. If you have really nice speakers you'll notice the difference. Some receivers also have the ability to drive more than 5 speakers. This may be something you need if you have 7 in one room.

I've always been of the mind on these types of things to do enough research to make sure you get something good, but don't get too caught up in buying the 'right' one. Buy one you like and then never look at them again or you'll always second guess yourself.

by **Greyeagle** » Sun 6/17/12 8:10 pm

I bought a Pioneer Elite receiver shortly after Christmas and absolutely love it. If you have an iPod it has a great interface. I had my previous receiver (Denon) for almost 15 years so this was a big step up. Love the fact it had a microphone and it automatically set the surround settings based on the room and speakers. Wow.

BTW - I could tell a significant sound quality improvement with my new receiver.

I like my Sony TV but would not buy another Sony receiver.

by **Golden FE Ranger** » Sun 6/17/12 8:50 pm

Greyeagle wrote:I like my Sony TV but would snot buy another Sony receiver.

I have a Sony Bravia that I love. We also have a Sony receiver that has been fine, but we are hardly high end sound people. The Sonos system I bought my wife for the kitchen and living room is tremendous.

by **The Rube** » Sun 6/17/12 8:52 pm

The only Sony problem I ever ran into was when they had the 300- and 400- CD carousels. I somewhat foolishly bought one of the first models (there's usually bugs to still work out when stuff like that comes out), but thankfully it was just a minor fix (something about a loose sensor that needed a new affixture or something). Otherwise, I've had Walkmans, Discmans, TVs, boomboxes, tabletop stereos, and home stereos that have lasted for years and years.

I think the only other electronics I have ever bought (as far as AV) is Panasonic, and I've had two TVs by them, one being my current one. Both have been quality, also.

by **dxmnkd316** » Sun 6/17/12 8:58 pm

Well, Sony used to be a spectacular company. The pinnacle of quality. That was back during the Walkman years. The products they make today will die sooner than the products they replaced 15 years ago.

by **The Rube** » Sun 6/17/12 9:03 pm

dxmnkd316 wrote:Well, Sony used to be a spectacular company. The pinnacle of quality. That was back during the Walkman years. The products they make today will die sooner than the products they replaced 15 years ago.

Well, I sold my home stereo setup to my brother when I moved into an apt (wayyyyyy too big/powerful for my place) and that's still going strong after 12 years (full setup of receiver/surround/etc). The thing will shake a house and not break a sweat.

I know they screwed themselves on the mini-disc thing, and the cd-copying thing. Those were horrible decisions on their part.

by **murrster** » Sun 6/17/12 9:27 pm

Thanks for all of the info, everyone. I honestly know nothing about this stuff, so all of your input is helpful. All of the speakers in the house are Infinity.

If I go with a higher end receiver, plus sub, what should I expect to spend? Is Best Buy the place to go, or should I go to a more specialized retailer?

by **The Rube** » Sun 6/17/12 9:29 pm

murrster wrote:Thanks for all of the info, everyone. I honestly know nothing about this stuff, so all of your input is helpful. All of the speakers in the house are Infinity.

If I go with a higher end receiver, plus sub, what should I expect to spend? Is Best Buy the place to go, or should I go to a more specialized retailer?

I'm going to pre-empt the BB haters and say I've had good experiences with them if you know what you want (at least in general). However, if you know exactly what you want, I suppose that buying it online would be cheaper.

by **rowshkex** » Sun 6/17/12 9:36 pm

Denon has good receivers.

by **Slap Shot** » Mon 6/18/12 6:30 pm

Our Sony tube in the kids room is about 12 years old and still crisp but that must have been made before the turn.

Sadly our Bravia and Blu-Ray are only 4 years-old each so I guess I will have to replace them soon.

We also have a Sharp Aquos (only 1 year) - hopefully that will last longer.

I'm not an audiophile despite my love of music - my Sansui receiver is 20 years old and Infinity speakers the same. I have a Panasonic 300 CD player if anyone is interested.

by **cavedog** » Mon 6/18/12 7:17 pm

Perhaps a question for Viking, WPOS, Dillo, or Big Beer:

Our new place has a bar in the lower level family room with a tap - the hose goes thru the wall into the laundry area. I know I'll need an old fridge to keep the keg in but what else will I need and how much should I expect to spend? CO2, regulator, etc. I'm new to this (bar setup, not beer drinking) so any help would be appreciated! :drinks2:

by **MNGophers29** » Mon 6/18/12 11:16 pm

Personally, I have always sworn by Sony. Started with my walkman sometime around middle school. Anyway, I always purchased their stuff because I had good luck and it fit my needs. When I got my PS2, it crapped out on me about 3 months after the warranty expired. I called and they told me I was S.O.L so I sat down and wrote their corporate offices a letter. I explained how I had always bought Sony as they stood for quality and had always had good luck with my products and I was disappointed in their service with my PS2 and if they couldn't remedy the situation, I would reconsider my position on consumer electronics. Before too long I had a new PS2 (still works to this day) and my confidence was again with Sony. I have had tube TVs, rear projection TVs, Bravia, receiver, subwoofers, etc, etc, etc. All still work, although my ex-wife is thinking about using my old rear-projection TV for an aquarium, and I would still go towards Sony for basic electronics. HOWEVER, when researching my 58" Plasma, I found a whole new world of electronics and I will agree, Pioneer and Yamaha make some of the best stuff out there. I eventually settled on a Samsung plasma, but the Pioneer was right up there and if I was going to go all out on sound equipment, it would have been Pioneer or Yamaha.

by **dxmnkd316** » Tue 6/19/12 7:57 am

For me, when it comes to TVs, Panasonic puts everyone else to absolute shame. They are the only innovator out there. Constantly trying to do better. It's why their TC-P65VT50 gained Reference status at AV Forums and why I will have one as the centerpiece of my entertainment room.

by **gopheritall** » Tue 6/19/12 8:31 am

I'm not an AV guru but here is what I know.

My standards are lower than some others on here. I have had very good luck with Sony products both audio and video. I have had spotty results with some other manufacturers.

I view AV kind of like a car. There will always be something you hate and there will always be someone to tell you that you picked the wrong one. Find the things you can't live without and make sure you don't get blinded by the bells and whistles into buying something that will bug you day-in and day-out.

For example, I will never buy another TV that does not have a physical on-off button again if I have a choice. I hate, hate, hate needing to find the remote to shut off the TV.

I recommend doing the simple things like turning things on/off and tuning stations, etc. to see what your most common actions will be like. Sure, if there is something special you want to be able to to make sure it does it. Know that 2 years down the road someone will come out with something else and all the cool kids will have that while you suffer with your 2 year-old craptastic receiver that can't even connect to Super-Mega-Cloud-O-Music without an adapter.

by **gondo** » Tue 6/19/12 9:38 am

murrster wrote:Sorry to break up the extreme couponing discussion, but I have a home electronics question. My wife and I recently purchased a home, and the house has built-in surround sound in both living rooms and a bedroom. In one living room, there are 5 speakers in the ceiling (two in front, three in back). In the other, there are seven speakers in the ceiling.

1) I need a receiver. What is a good brand? We won't be watching countless action flicks, but we would like something that's pretty good quality.

2) Do I need a subwoofer?

Check out http://www.avsforum.com/f/90/amps-receivers-and-processors
The Denon threads are hosted by Batpig and jdsmoothie. They are very good at answering Qs about Denon products. Better customer service than you will receive from any manufacturer. 2011 models are on closeout and can be had for very good deals.
And Audyssey is a very good program to run to calibrate everything.

Don't make decisions based on minimal differences in watts between receivers. A 3db increase in sound requires a doubling of power. And it takes a 10db increase in sound for our ears to perceive a doubling of volume. A 125W receiver isn't going to give you any noticeable difference than the 90W receiver.

by **h8red** » Tue 6/19/12 9:42 am

Dolphin275 wrote:I've had a gas powered Homelite trimmer for 18 years. Still purs like a kitten.
I have no idea why, I beat the crap out of it...

I have a newer homelite trimmer and it's always been a piece of crap.
I'll sell it to the highest bidder

by **h8red** » Tue 6/19/12 9:44 am

gopheritall wrote:I'm not an AV guru but here is what I know.

My standards are lower than some others on here. I have had very good luck with Sony products both audio and video. I have had spotty results with some other manufacturers.

I view AV kind of like a car. There will always be something you hate and there will always be someone to tell you that you picked the wrong one. Find the things you can't live without and make sure you don't get blinded by the bells and whistles into buying something that will bug you day-in and day-out.

For example, I will never buy another TV that does not have a physical on-off button again if I have a choice. I hate, hate, hate needing to find the remote to shut off the TV.

I recommend doing the simple things like turning things on/off and tuning stations, etc. to see what your most common actions will be like. Sure, if there is something special you want to be able to to make sure it does it. Know that 2 years down the road someone will come out with something else and all the cool kids will have that while you suffer with your 2 year-old craptastic receiver that can't even connect to Super-Mega-Cloud-O-Music without an adapter.

Get one with Airplay if you use anything Mac (iphone, macbook, etc...) You can control music with your phone from your network. Denon and Pioneer can do it. Check best buy as they sell their demo units for about 50% off. I would go for a Pioneer VSX-51 for your base model. And yes, you do want a subwoofer.

by **dxmnkd316** » Tue 6/19/12 10:48 am

If you get a subwoofer, make sure it's a powered subwoofer. (Although, I've often found plain old woofers to be more than adequate if they are high quality. Subwoofers are becoming almost a nuisance.)

by **Greyeagle** » Tue 6/19/12 11:54 am

dxmnkd316 wrote:Subwoofers are becoming almost a nuisance.)

Blasphemy!

by **Jupiter** » Tue 6/19/12 12:05 pm

Greyeagle wrote:
dxmnkd316 wrote:Subwoofers are becoming almost a nuisance.)

Blasphemy!

Agreed!

Man card REVOKED!

by **Viking** » Tue 6/19/12 12:58 pm

cavedog wrote:Perhaps a question for Viking, WPOS, Dillo, or Big Beer:

Our new place has a bar in the lower level family room with a tap - the hose goes thru the wall into the laundry area. I know I'll need an old fridge to keep the keg in but what else will I need and how much should I expect to spend? CO2, regulator, etc. I'm new to this (bar setup, not beer drinking) so any help would be appreciated!

This is probably your best bet...

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/deluxe-commercial-keg-conversion-kit.html

Talk to someone in there about specifics. You won't need the tap that comes with the package, but there may be some other piece of hardware needed to connect the shank (the piece that goes through the door) to the beer line. You will also need a 1" hole saw and, depending on the type of fridge, you may need to build a shelf for the keg and CO2 tank to sit on. It's actually pretty simple.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

by **WPoS** » Tue 6/19/12 2:30 pm

Viking wrote:
cavedog wrote:Perhaps a question for Viking, WPOS, Dillo, or Big Beer:

Our new place has a bar in the lower level family room with a tap - the hose goes thru the wall into the laundry area. I know I'll need an old fridge to keep the keg in but what else will I need and how much should I expect to spend? CO2, regulator, etc. I'm new to this (bar setup, not beer drinking) so any help would be appreciated!

This is probably your best bet...

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/deluxe-commercial-keg-conversion-kit.html

Talk to someone in there about specifics. You won't need the tap that comes with the package, but there may be some other piece of hardware needed to connect the shank (the piece that goes through the door) to the beer line. You will also need a 1" hole saw and, depending on the type of fridge, you may need to build a shelf for the keg and CO2 tank to sit on. It's actually pretty simple.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

what Viking said...

W

by **streakygopher** » Tue 6/19/12 7:00 pm

Anybody know anything about the Microsoft Surface? This is a gushing review....

http://gizmodo.com/5919521/microsoft-surface-just-made-the-macbook-air-and-the-ipad-obsolete

by **dxmnkd316** » Tue 6/19/12 7:38 pm

streakygopher wrote:Anybody know anything about the Microsoft Surface? This is a gushing review....

http://gizmodo.com/5919521/microsoft-surface-just-made-the-macbook-air-and-the-ipad-obsolete

Whoa... That's quite the review...

I'm still pissed they cancelled the Courier. I would have bought ten of them.

by **davescharf** » Tue 6/19/12 7:46 pm

streakygopher wrote:Anybody know anything about the Microsoft Surface? This is a gushing review....

http://gizmodo.com/5919521/microsoft-surface-just-made-the-macbook-air-and-the-ipad-obsolete

If they price it @ $800 or $900 and it has a 6-7 hour battery life then Apple has no worries IMO.

by **gopheritall** » Tue 6/19/12 9:06 pm

davescharf wrote:
streakygopher wrote:Anybody know anything about the Microsoft Surface? This is a gushing review....

http://gizmodo.com/5919521/microsoft-surface-just-made-the-macbook-air-and-the-ipad-obsolete

If they price it @ $800 or $900 and it has a 6-7 hour battery life then Apple has no worries IMO.

If I can run Windows based business applications on this for 6 hours for $900 then Apple does have something to worry about. The iPad is still little more than a large phone. This could up the ante and Apple no longer has (in my opinion) the single most important piece of their strategy (Jobs). I have an iPad and like it BUT it has many limitations and a retina display doesn't make a revolution. If Microsoft does this right it could expose the iPad as a toy (which it is). The iPad does not have the inner workings to run a business application and Apple can't shove their full OS on it and make it viable. Microsoft can because everyone wants their Microsoft applications on their iPad. Microsoft has the chance to give them that.

That said, Microsoft will need to stick this one out and not abandon it like so many other projects. If not, this will just be another device to play Angry Birds on.

by **Kelor** » Tue 6/19/12 9:12 pm

We are within days of introducing the iPad to 110 of our workers. I can imagine that many other businesses have already made the leap. Once the leap has been made, it will be a long long time before Microsoft gets these clients back.

I'm sure they aren't too late, but they sure aren't on time. I'm excited that apple will have a serious competitor.

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