Twins 2012 season

[Handyman]

Lowe Beat Twins With One Pitch

How bad a team are you when a pitcher never changes up the pitch and you still get shut out by him?

[Beauner]

Lowe Beat Twins With One Pitch

How bad a team are you when a pitcher never changes up the pitch and you still get shut out by him?

2012 Minnesota Twins bad.

[Armadillo]

Stuff like that really illustrates how godawful this team is. I mean, sweet caramelized Jesus...

[Chris Eckes]

*cue DX snark* "Season's over, boys, might as well just pack it in and call it a year."

Upon learning that the Twins are on pace to lose 117 games this year, are actually historically bad and have literally no hope of any on-field success this season, DX could not be reached for comment

[gopherguy13]

Lowe Beat Twins With One Pitch

How bad a team are you when a pitcher never changes up the pitch and you still get shut out by him?

That had to be fun to pitch that game. Throw the same thing over and over and they just can't hit it.

Maybe the Twins should send out their pitching staff to local high schools so they can know the same feeling!

[dryfly]

Lowe Beat Twins With One Pitch

How bad a team are you when a pitcher never changes up the pitch and you still get shut out by him?

2012 Minnesota Twins bad.

As the article states - not yet 1962 Mets bad. But they got a shot at it.

[dryfly]

"You just want to keep going at it until they make an adjustment"

Ouch... the truth hurts.

[dxmnkd316]

Hooray! We're good again!

[rowshkex]

Hooray! We're good again!

[dryfly]

Hooray! We're good again!

Last year at on this date we were 12-27 [0.308] ... so at 11-26 [0.297] we're pretty much right there. And with our 10 Game Moving Average now at 4-6 [0.400] - we are gaining ground. Sort of.

[dxmnkd316]

Weren't we something like 16 games out last year at this point?

[dryfly]

Weren't we something like 16 games out last year at this point?

Not sure I just go by this:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2011.shtml

Shows it game by game - pretty cool.

Here is this year so far... http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2012.shtml

The biggest difference is we had a more close games last year - we are getting blown out more often this year even if W & Ls are real similar.

[dryfly]

2011 as of 'today' here:

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/index. ... s#20110516

We were 13.5 out last year on this day according to this. Compared to 10 out now.

Not a big whoop either way.

[dxmnkd316]

I still think 75% of the reason we suck so much this year is our pitching. The batting is bad but I honestly believe the batting would be a hell of a lot better if we weren't down 3-0 after an inning. Going down 3-0 every game is simply draining on a lineup.

[dryfly]

I still think 75% of the reason we suck so much this year is our pitching. The batting is bad but I honestly believe the batting would be a hell of a lot better if we weren't down 3-0 after an inning. Going down 3-0 every game is simply draining on a lineup.

Absolutely.

[Idontknow]

The Twins have 3 guys on the All Star Ballot that are currently in the minors: Revere, Valencia, Parmalee

[trixR4kids]

Lowe Beat Twins With One Pitch

How bad a team are you when a pitcher never changes up the pitch and you still get shut out by him?

Lol just looked at the pitchfx data. He threw 115 sinkers out of 127 total.

[dryfly]

I use seasons like this as a metaphor for business - if the numbers suck this quarter its usually because somebody didn't do their job 2-3 years ago. That somebody is almost always in a senior position in management.

[dxmnkd316]

I use seasons like this as a metaphor for business - if the numbers suck this quarter its usually because somebody didn't do their job 2-3 years ago. That somebody is almost always in a senior position in management.

That's what I said in my comment above that could be aptly titled "Capitulation". Bill Smith did more to set this club back than anything else. He took what Terry Ryan built up and crapped on it.

[dryfly]

I use seasons like this as a metaphor for business - if the numbers suck this quarter its usually because somebody didn't do their job 2-3 years ago. That somebody is almost always in a senior position in management.

That's what I said in my comment above that could be aptly titled "Capitulation". Bill Smith did more to set this club back than anything else. He took what Terry Ryan built up and crapped on it.

It is hard to dispute that. Make that ... it is impossible to dispute that.

[trixR4kids]

Exactly. Team philosophies and coaching decisions don't cost a team 100 games. Lack of talent, especially at the mound (which has been mediocre for a while now) has to be the biggest problem during the last two years.

[Bushwood Gopher]

Exactly. Team philosophies and coaching decisions don't cost a team 100 games. Lack of talent, especially at the mound (which has been mediocre for a while now) has to be the biggest problem during the last two years.

Team philosophies are what cause an organization to draft/acquire/dump the wrong guys for the better part of a decade. Why do you think the farm system is so unbelievably horrible?

In terms of lack of talent on the mound, I can give you a list of guys who have gotten worse while here (Blackburn, Liriano, Slowey); guys that have gotten better after they left (Dickey, Lohse, Garza, Breslow, Rauch). Can somebody help me with the list of who Gardy's old roomie Rick Anderson has made into a better pitcher over the same time period?

[Beauner]

Exactly. Team philosophies and coaching decisions don't cost a team 100 games. Lack of talent, especially at the mound (which has been mediocre for a while now) has to be the biggest problem during the last two years.

Really? The team philosophy of "singles hitters with speed and defense, and fly ball/ground ball pitchers with no real 'out pitch' to get Ks with" that the team has had since, oh, 1995 isn't to blame? It's the lack of talent that we draft based on that philosophy? I beg to differ.
The organizational philosophy of "Let's hit a bunch of singles and play small ball and get pitchers who try to induce fly balls or throw sinkers!" is what caused this organization to see 0 post-season success when we go against teams with power hitting and power pitching, and that philosophy contributed largely to the terrible situation we're in now.
It's not really a coincidence that the 2 of the 3 or 4 best offensive performers for the Twins so far this season have come from outside the organization (Willingham and Doumit). None of the hitters we've had come up to the majors recently have seen major improvement under Vavra, and none of the pitchers we've had have seen marked improvement with Anderson. Both guys that stick with the organization's philosophy.

Again, people, Billy Smith was in charge of the team for 4 years (3 drafts IIRC) Most of the players he drafted were not/should not be expected to be full-time players in the majors yet.
Smith signed the Twins best prospect, a Dominican named Miguel Sano. That wasn't a TR move.
He also drafted Kyle Gibson and Brian Dozier in the same draft, both project to be full-time starters next year.
We have a couple other guys in A ball and AA ball that he drafted that seem to be doing pretty well (Pat Dean, LHP, for example). Did Billy Smith do a good job? No. But he isn't the worst GM in sports history like you guys are making him out to be.

[Bushwood Gopher]

Exactly. Team philosophies and coaching decisions don't cost a team 100 games. Lack of talent, especially at the mound (which has been mediocre for a while now) has to be the biggest problem during the last two years.

Really? The team philosophy of "singles hitters with speed and defense, and fly ball/ground ball pitchers with no real 'out pitch' to get Ks with" that the team has had since, oh, 1995 isn't to blame? It's the lack of talent that we draft based on that philosophy? I beg to differ.
The organizational philosophy of "Let's hit a bunch of singles and play small ball and get pitchers who try to induce fly balls or throw sinkers!" is what caused this organization to see 0 post-season success when we go against teams with power hitting and power pitching, and that philosophy contributed largely to the terrible situation we're in now.
It's not really a coincidence that the 2 of the 3 or 4 best offensive performers for the Twins so far this season have come from outside the organization (Willingham and Doumit). None of the hitters we've had come up to the majors recently have seen major improvement under Vavra, and none of the pitchers we've had have seen marked improvement with Anderson. Both guys that stick with the organization's philosophy.

Again, people, Billy Smith was in charge of the team for 4 years (3 drafts IIRC) Most of the players he drafted were not/should not be expected to be full-time players in the majors yet.
Smith signed the Twins best prospect, a Dominican named Miguel Sano. That wasn't a TR move.
He also drafted Kyle Gibson and Brian Dozier in the same draft, both project to be full-time starters next year.
We have a couple other guys in A ball and AA ball that he drafted that seem to be doing pretty well (Pat Dean, LHP, for example). Did Billy Smith do a good job? No. But he isn't the worst GM in sports history like you guys are making him out to be.

B-I-N-G-O

[Chris Eckes]

I am of the personal opinion that Terry Ryan saw the writing on the wall and got out in the nick of time. Yes, Smith made some questionable trades, but after the nucleus that Ryan built in the early to mid 2000s left, Ryan realized that the cupboard was bare and left for Smith to fall on the sword.

[Gopherguy05]

The Twins have 3 guys on the All Star Ballot that are currently in the minors: Revere, Valencia, Parmalee

And now its just 2.

Revere recalled, Doumit on DL with calf strain.

[sunbone]

Exactly. Team philosophies and coaching decisions don't cost a team 100 games. Lack of talent, especially at the mound (which has been mediocre for a while now) has to be the biggest problem during the last two years.

Team philosophies are what cause an organization to draft/acquire/dump the wrong guys for the better part of a decade. Why do you think the farm system is so unbelievably horrible?

In terms of lack of talent on the mound, I can give you a list of guys who have gotten worse while here (Blackburn, Liriano, Slowey); guys that have gotten better after they left (Dickey, Lohse, Garza, Breslow, Rauch). Can somebody help me with the list of who Gardy's old roomie Rick Anderson has made into a better pitcher over the same time period?

Lohse, Garza, Breslow and Rauch? These are the Cy Young candidates that you are going to make your point with? Garza got better after he left here but he has gotten older. He is still inconsistent and there is a reason he gets traded every two years. Lohse was bad to mediocre when he was here. Since he left he has had 2 really nice seasons. The rest of the time he is who he is. I blame Dave Duncan for his inconsistency. Rauch? He had his best year ever when he was with the Twins. Dickey? You want more power pitching and you are lamenting the loss of Dickey? And I'm not sure how much influence a pitching coach has on a knuckle baller anyways. I really wish they would trade Liriano so you could test your theory that his problem is coaching. Because I'm not buying it.

[Riff Raff]

So what you are all saying is:

Years of institutional misteps and questionable managerial decisions + current pitching staff and position players without the abilty to be competitive at the major league level = the 2012 Minnesota Twins

Their new marketing campaign should be: Your 2012 Twins....because we suck for so many reasons.

[Gopherguy05]

Exactly. Team philosophies and coaching decisions don't cost a team 100 games. Lack of talent, especially at the mound (which has been mediocre for a while now) has to be the biggest problem during the last two years.

Team philosophies are what cause an organization to draft/acquire/dump the wrong guys for the better part of a decade. Why do you think the farm system is so unbelievably horrible?

In terms of lack of talent on the mound, I can give you a list of guys who have gotten worse while here (Blackburn, Liriano, Slowey); guys that have gotten better after they left (Dickey, Lohse, Garza, Breslow, Rauch). Can somebody help me with the list of who Gardy's old roomie Rick Anderson has made into a better pitcher over the same time period?

Joe Nathan
Eddie Guardado
Latroy Hawkins
Johan Santana


As said above Rauch's best season was with MN. Breslow has been equal other places as to his time here. If you want to say breslow got better once he left, then you need to look at pitchers like Matt Guerrier that got worse when they left.

[Gopherguy05]

The Twins have 3 guys on the All Star Ballot that are currently in the minors: Revere, Valencia, Parmalee

And now its just 2.

Revere recalled, Doumit on DL with calf strain.

And the Twins make a change. Blackburn now to the DL, not Doumit.


http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins ... 71005.html

[Bushwood Gopher]

I am of the personal opinion that Terry Ryan saw the writing on the wall and got out in the nick of time. Yes, Smith made some questionable trades, but after the nucleus that Ryan built in the early to mid 2000s left, Ryan realized that the cupboard was bare and left for Smith to fall on the sword.

Terry Ryan was a senior adviser with the Twins after he "left" (it's the Twins Way, nobody from the front office ever really leaves) and my guess is he still had input on personnel matters in that role.

[Chris Eckes]

Probably, but with Smith the face of the organization he's the one that took the hit to his reputation. Ryan skated back in and all of us thought he was the guy to be the savior of the team. Turned out pretty well for him!

[team22tank]

The Twins suck.

[gopher_fan_in_sue_land]

Exactly. Team philosophies and coaching decisions don't cost a team 100 games. Lack of talent, especially at the mound (which has been mediocre for a while now) has to be the biggest problem during the last two years.

Team philosophies are what cause an organization to draft/acquire/dump the wrong guys for the better part of a decade. Why do you think the farm system is so unbelievably horrible?

In terms of lack of talent on the mound, I can give you a list of guys who have gotten worse while here (Blackburn, Liriano, Slowey); guys that have gotten better after they left (Dickey, Lohse, Garza, Breslow, Rauch). Can somebody help me with the list of who Gardy's old roomie Rick Anderson has made into a better pitcher over the same time period?

Lohse, Garza, Breslow and Rauch? These are the Cy Young candidates that you are going to make your point with? Garza got better after he left here but he has gotten older. He is still inconsistent and there is a reason he gets traded every two years. Lohse was bad to mediocre when he was here. Since he left he has had 2 really nice seasons. The rest of the time he is who he is. I blame Dave Duncan for his inconsistency. Rauch? He had his best year ever when he was with the Twins. Dickey? You want more power pitching and you are lamenting the loss of Dickey? And I'm not sure how much influence a pitching coach has on a knuckle baller anyways. I really wish they would trade Liriano so you could test your theory that his problem is coaching. Because I'm not buying it.

Add Liriano, Slowey, and to the names that shouldn't be included in the above lists. None of them threw a pitch in the Majors for a team other than the Twins. How can they be included as players who got worse after being in Minnesota? If that is the case, you also have to point to how they got better after being in Minnesota, since they each had improving numbers from years one to two, and made it from the minors to the majors, etc. With Liriano, fact is, he has just gotten worse, and I'd point to his health. You can't coach a player not to rupture tendons in their elbow. Slowey, I don't think he's found a Major League home since leaving Minnesota. Maybe he just isn't that good? And Blackburn's numbers stagnated. Liriano is the only one of these guys that ever had electric stuff (pre injury) - maybe the Twins pitchers just aren't that talented and its not a coaching/development deal? You can't teach guys to throw in the mid-90's, some guys just have "it".

I agree that the Twins have made mistakes with personnel, BIG ONES, but I'd point to the lack of talent on the mound rather than talent that hasn't been cultivated.

[gopher_fan_in_sue_land]

The Twins suck.

Now that is a statement I can get on board with.

[dryfly]

The Twins suck.

Now that is a statement I can get on board with.

Teams don't go from division leaders multiple seasons to bottom dwellers multiple season almost over night with just bad luck and a few slackers not trying. It has to literally be 'engineered' from the top either intentionally or via organizational incompetence. So Twins management - pick your poison.

[team22tank]

The Twins suck.

Now that is a statement I can get on board with.

Teams don't go from division leaders multiple seasons to bottom dwellers multiple season almost over night with just bad luck and a few slackers not trying. It has to literally be 'engineered' from the top either intentionally or via organizational incompetence. So Twins management - pick your poison.

Tori Hunter
Johan Santanna
Michael Cuddyer
Jason Kubel
ect

I get that we aren't going to sign the big free agents each year but when players come up through our system I think management needs to do what it can to keep those types of players around. Otherwise you are basically saying, we can only be so good and once we reach that point we have to let go our best players. Letting go of very good talent has caught up to the Twins. Now they suck very bad.

[gopher wes]

And instead of trading ^those guys^ away for young talent and/or much needed pitching help, they just let them walk at the end of the year in free agency....

[dryfly]

The Twins suck.

Now that is a statement I can get on board with.

Teams don't go from division leaders multiple seasons to bottom dwellers multiple season almost over night with just bad luck and a few slackers not trying. It has to literally be 'engineered' from the top either intentionally or via organizational incompetence. So Twins management - pick your poison.

Tori Hunter
Johan Santanna
Michael Cuddyer
Jason Kubel
ect

I get that we aren't going to sign the big free agents each year but when players come up through our system I think management needs to do what it can to keep those types of players around. Otherwise you are basically saying, we can only be so good and once we reach that point we have to let go our best players. Letting go of very good talent has caught up to the Twins. Now they suck very bad.

The other argument might be true as well ...

Mauer
Morneau

Two huge contracts.

They might have been better letting them go too then spending those resources refilling the development pipeline so as to have more young undiscovered Hunter's, Santanna's, Mauer's and Morneau's.

Choose one strategy and do it well - it could be trying to do some of both [inadequately] is what killed them.

Not sure - just throwing that out as an alternative argument.

[Bushwood Gopher]

The Twins had little leverage with Santana. He made it clear he wasn't coming back and as soon as that happened it was either get what you can in a trade or let him go for the two compensatory picks and they did the former. They offered Cuddy 24M over 3 years and that was plenty. I would much rather have Willingham than Cuddy if the money was the same and it's not, we saved 9M over 3 years. I thought they should have re-signed Kubel for sure and wanted Hunter back at the time, too, but that was a lot of money (and 5 years) for a guy who was getting long in the tooth. As it turns out, he wound up having 5 very productive years for Anaheim but you don't get the benefit of hindsight at the time you negotiate a new deal. As we know with M & M...

[sunbone]

The Twins had little leverage with Santana. He made it clear he wasn't coming back and as soon as that happened it was either get what you can in a trade or let him go for the two compensatory picks and they did the former. They offered Cuddy 24M over 3 years and that was plenty. I would much rather have Willingham than Cuddy if the money was the same and it's not, we saved 9M over 3 years. I thought they should have re-signed Kubel for sure and wanted Hunter back at the time, too, but that was a lot of money (and 5 years) for a guy who was getting long in the tooth. As it turns out, he wound up having 5 very productive years for Anaheim but you don't get the benefit of hindsight at the time you negotiate a new deal. As we know with M & M...

I'm curious if they had any serious offers for Cuddyer last season before the deadline. Because they had to know he was going to get offered more than what they were willing to pay. At least they should have known that. It was pretty much a replay of the Hunter scenario from 5 years ago. And I wanted them to bring back Kubel as well but I thought I heard he wanted out of Target Field.

[Bushwood Gopher]

The Twins had little leverage with Santana. He made it clear he wasn't coming back and as soon as that happened it was either get what you can in a trade or let him go for the two compensatory picks and they did the former. They offered Cuddy 24M over 3 years and that was plenty. I would much rather have Willingham than Cuddy if the money was the same and it's not, we saved 9M over 3 years. I thought they should have re-signed Kubel for sure and wanted Hunter back at the time, too, but that was a lot of money (and 5 years) for a guy who was getting long in the tooth. As it turns out, he wound up having 5 very productive years for Anaheim but you don't get the benefit of hindsight at the time you negotiate a new deal. As we know with M & M...

I'm curious if they had any serious offers for Cuddyer last season before the deadline. Because they had to know he was going to get offered more than what they were willing to pay. At least they should have known that. It was pretty much a replay of the Hunter scenario from 5 years ago. And I wanted them to bring back Kubel as well but I thought I heard he wanted out of Target Field.

I think that's true about Kubel. He said things afterward that made it pretty clear he didn't want to come back. Not sure about any Cuddyer pre-trade deadline offers either. Philly was mentioned as a possibility, and given the fact that they traded for another RF, Hunter Pence, it's probable there were at least some discussions. Maybe the Twins believed they could get a better prospect as compensation than they could have in a trade.

[rowshkex]

The Twins suck.

Now that is a statement I can get on board with.

Teams don't go from division leaders multiple seasons to bottom dwellers multiple season almost over night with just bad luck and a few slackers not trying. It has to literally be 'engineered' from the top either intentionally or via organizational incompetence. So Twins management - pick your poison.

Tori Hunter
Johan Santanna
Michael Cuddyer
Jason Kubel
ect

I get that we aren't going to sign the big free agents each year but when players come up through our system I think management needs to do what it can to keep those types of players around. Otherwise you are basically saying, we can only be so good and once we reach that point we have to let go our best players. Letting go of very good talent has caught up to the Twins. Now they suck very bad.

The other argument might be true as well ...

Mauer
Morneau

Two huge contracts.

They might have been better letting them go too then spending those resources refilling the development pipeline so as to have more young undiscovered Hunter's, Santanna's, Mauer's and Morneau's.

Choose one strategy and do it well - it could be trying to do some of both [inadequately] is what killed them.

Not sure - just throwing that out as an alternative argument.

I think the difference is that the organization saw the dollar signs in the sky with Mauer coming back, whereas they didn't see the business-minded motivation behind bringing back some of those other key players--that they counted on fans to still show up when they let most of these players walk, but saw a precipitous drop in their fanbase if they let Mauer walk.

This organization (administration) is and has been toxic to many players and the team over the years...

[Bushwood Gopher]

Hopefully Capps keeps pitching like he has lately. They might be able to get something for him before the trade deadline.

[dryfly]

Hopefully Capps keeps pitching like he has lately. They might be able to get something for him before the trade deadline.

Trade him for a whole AAA team...

[sunbone]

Twins Sweep!!! I know it was only a 2 game series but probably the only time I will get to say that this season. Is it my imagination or does Delmon look even more bloated and unathletic than he did last year? He is the oldest looking 26 year old ball player I can remember. He might want to switch to Captain and Diet Coke.

[Tee09]

Twins Sweep!!! I know it was only a 2 game series but probably the only time I will get to say that this season. Is it my imagination or does Delmon look even more bloated and unathletic than he did last year? He is the oldest looking 26 year old ball player I can remember. He might want to switch to Captain and Diet Coke.

How did his hate crime allegation end up?

[Bushwood Gopher]

Twins Sweep!!! I know it was only a 2 game series but probably the only time I will get to say that this season. Is it my imagination or does Delmon look even more bloated and unathletic than he did last year? He is the oldest looking 26 year old ball player I can remember. He might want to switch to Captain and Diet Coke.

Gimme your address in a PM amigo. I don't see him turning this around and you might as well enjoy the $20 worth of coffee before it gets too hot!

[sunbone]

Twins Sweep!!! I know it was only a 2 game series but probably the only time I will get to say that this season. Is it my imagination or does Delmon look even more bloated and unathletic than he did last year? He is the oldest looking 26 year old ball player I can remember. He might want to switch to Captain and Diet Coke.

Gimme your address in a PM amigo. I don't see him turning this around and you might as well enjoy the $20 worth of coffee before it gets too hot!

You have to give it until at least the All-Star break, buddy. We both know Delmon can look like a mutt for 2 months and then look like an All-Star for the next two months. If he is still sucking like a vaccum in July you can kick $20 into the GPL fund. I need to help make sure you and I have a forum where we can bicker about baseball in during the hockey offseason.

[Bushwood Gopher]

Twins Sweep!!! I know it was only a 2 game series but probably the only time I will get to say that this season. Is it my imagination or does Delmon look even more bloated and unathletic than he did last year? He is the oldest looking 26 year old ball player I can remember. He might want to switch to Captain and Diet Coke.

Gimme your address in a PM amigo. I don't see him turning this around and you might as well enjoy the $20 worth of coffee before it gets too hot!

You have to give it until at least the All-Star break, buddy. We both know Delmon can look like a mutt for 2 months and then look like an All-Star for the next two months. If he is still sucking like a vaccum in July you can kick $20 into the GPL fund. I need to help make sure you and I have a forum where we can bicker about baseball in during the hockey offseason.

Sounds good to me.

[monty]

Twins Sweep!!! I know it was only a 2 game series but probably the only time I will get to say that this season. Is it my imagination or does Delmon look even more bloated and unathletic than he did last year? He is the oldest looking 26 year old ball player I can remember. He might want to switch to Captain and Diet Coke.

Morneau, the magic elixir for this team.

[trixR4kids]

Exactly. Team philosophies and coaching decisions don't cost a team 100 games. Lack of talent, especially at the mound (which has been mediocre for a while now) has to be the biggest problem during the last two years.

Really? The team philosophy of "singles hitters with speed and defense, and fly ball/ground ball pitchers with no real 'out pitch' to get Ks with" that the team has had since, oh, 1995 isn't to blame? It's the lack of talent that we draft based on that philosophy? I beg to differ.
The organizational philosophy of "Let's hit a bunch of singles and play small ball and get pitchers who try to induce fly balls or throw sinkers!" is what caused this organization to see 0 post-season success when we go against teams with power hitting and power pitching, and that philosophy contributed largely to the terrible situation we're in now.
It's not really a coincidence that the 2 of the 3 or 4 best offensive performers for the Twins so far this season have come from outside the organization (Willingham and Doumit). None of the hitters we've had come up to the majors recently have seen major improvement under Vavra, and none of the pitchers we've had have seen marked improvement with Anderson. Both guys that stick with the organization's philosophy.

Again, people, Billy Smith was in charge of the team for 4 years (3 drafts IIRC) Most of the players he drafted were not/should not be expected to be full-time players in the majors yet.
Smith signed the Twins best prospect, a Dominican named Miguel Sano. That wasn't a TR move.
He also drafted Kyle Gibson and Brian Dozier in the same draft, both project to be full-time starters next year.
We have a couple other guys in A ball and AA ball that he drafted that seem to be doing pretty well (Pat Dean, LHP, for example). Did Billy Smith do a good job? No. But he isn't the worst GM in sports history like you guys are making him out to be.

Yeah clearly they're turning Strasburg like pitchers into pitch to contact slowballers...

The best pitcher the Twins have had in the last five years is who...? Scott Baker? A solid underrated pitcher who should be a #2 instead of a #1 (see: Gallardo). Matt Garza? You can blame Smith for him being gone. The rest of the pitchers are crappy or in the case of Liriano, really crappy minus a season or two. Point being these pitchers simply aren't good and never would have been anyway. Baker and Garza being the exceptions and Smith traded away the latter.

Smith's drafting was part of the problem, his trades were a bigger problem. As far as GM comparisons, he's about as good as Bill Bavasi.

I'm not even going to go into the hitting argument, no need to rehash that.

[Handyman]

Smith had to trade away the latter...Gardy hated him.

While Smith sucked Terry Ryan is just as responsible. Where are all the top prospects he brought into the system before leaving? Who exactly put in Smith's name to replace Terry Ryan? Ryan is no lord and savior and Smith is not the devil.

[Bushwood Gopher]

Exactly. Team philosophies and coaching decisions don't cost a team 100 games. Lack of talent, especially at the mound (which has been mediocre for a while now) has to be the biggest problem during the last two years.

Really? The team philosophy of "singles hitters with speed and defense, and fly ball/ground ball pitchers with no real 'out pitch' to get Ks with" that the team has had since, oh, 1995 isn't to blame? It's the lack of talent that we draft based on that philosophy? I beg to differ.
The organizational philosophy of "Let's hit a bunch of singles and play small ball and get pitchers who try to induce fly balls or throw sinkers!" is what caused this organization to see 0 post-season success when we go against teams with power hitting and power pitching, and that philosophy contributed largely to the terrible situation we're in now.
It's not really a coincidence that the 2 of the 3 or 4 best offensive performers for the Twins so far this season have come from outside the organization (Willingham and Doumit). None of the hitters we've had come up to the majors recently have seen major improvement under Vavra, and none of the pitchers we've had have seen marked improvement with Anderson. Both guys that stick with the organization's philosophy.

Again, people, Billy Smith was in charge of the team for 4 years (3 drafts IIRC) Most of the players he drafted were not/should not be expected to be full-time players in the majors yet.
Smith signed the Twins best prospect, a Dominican named Miguel Sano. That wasn't a TR move.
He also drafted Kyle Gibson and Brian Dozier in the same draft, both project to be full-time starters next year.
We have a couple other guys in A ball and AA ball that he drafted that seem to be doing pretty well (Pat Dean, LHP, for example). Did Billy Smith do a good job? No. But he isn't the worst GM in sports history like you guys are making him out to be.

Yeah clearly they're turning Strasburg like pitchers into pitch to contact slowballers...

The best pitcher the Twins have had in the last five years is who...? Scott Baker? A solid underrated pitcher who should be a #2 instead of a #1 (see: Gallardo). Matt Garza? You can blame Smith for him being gone. The rest of the pitchers are crappy or in the case of Liriano, really crappy minus a season or two. Point being these pitchers simply aren't good and never would have been anyway. Baker and Garza being the exceptions and Smith traded away the latter.

Smith's drafting was part of the problem, his trades were a bigger problem. As far as GM comparisons, he's about as good as Bill Bavasi.

I'm not even going to go into the hitting argument, no need to rehash that.

Can you point to where the Twins have drafted a lot of hard throwing SPs? If you can, I'd like to see the list. The last two pitchers they drafted (Alex Wimmers and Kyle Gibson) were cut from the same kind of cloth as Scott Baker and Kevin Slowey.

Their philosophy is to draft & acquire low risk/low ceiling guys who don't walk anybody, don't throw very hard and as a result don't strike many guys out. Which is why outside of Johan Santana and Liriano for a spell, they've had a bunch of middle rotation clones for the better part of the last decade.

And Liriano was crappy or never going to be any good? That's laughable. I'm pretty sure he and Matt Moore are still the only two minor leaguers who ever had 200+ strike outs in a season. And has already been stated, his 2010 season was extremely good even after the surgery.

[sec 16 row16 seat 16 17]

2 in a row were comin.

[Armadillo]

Minnesota Twins: Historically, It Can't Get Any Worse.

[trixR4kids]

Smith had to trade away the latter...Gardy hated him.

While Smith sucked Terry Ryan is just as responsible. Where are all the top prospects he brought into the system before leaving? Who exactly put in Smith's name to replace Terry Ryan? Ryan is no lord and savior and Smith is not the devil.

Nobody said Terry Ryan was great either.

And yes, a lot of it has to do with their drafting strategy. That has a lot more to do with their lack of success than the batting strategies of the players or the fact that they teach crappy pitchers to do the best with what they have and try to be efficient.

So to clarify, yes I think their drafting and front office in general has been bad. And the Twins could probably do better than Gardy but I'd place more blame on the management and ability to acquire talent.

[Armadillo]

It's not the Twins, but if you have access to a TV with WGN on it, you might want to catch the rest of this Cubs/White Sox game. It's 2-1 Sox after 5, we've seen Konerko take a splitter to the head, a pitch thrown behind a Cub in retaliation, and a terrible call on a tackle at second base that led to Dale Sveum getting tossed. It's been a good one!

[dxmnkd316]

WE'RE STILL GOOD!!!!!! WE'RE STILL GOOD!!!!!

[rowshkex]

Anyone been watching this Scott Diamond fellow? Does he look as good as his stats show?

[Hobey Baker]

It is amazing what starting pitching can do!

[Bushwood Gopher]

It is amazing what starting pitching can do!

Yes. Those pitchers driving in 11 runs two out of the last three games was huge!

17 games of 39 where they've scored 2 runs or less. That's 44% of the games played this year where they needed Justin Verlander, Felix Hernandez, CC Sabbathia, Roy Halladay or Jared Weaver pitching to have a shot at winning.

[Snowcool08]

The lead in the division is down to single digits.

[sec 16 row16 seat 16 17]

3 in a row central division title watch.

[team22tank]

The Twins suck.

A believer since Wednesday, we coming we coming. Gardy, skipper of the year!

[Bushwood Gopher]

I hope a losing record wins the AL Central this year. "The Central is what we thought it is, and we let it off the hook!"

[team22tank]

Rever has had a nice few games since being called up. I hope he keeps it up he is a good kid and adds a lot of speed to the line-up.

Does anyone one know how Danny boy is doing down in the minors?

[team22tank]

Rever has had a nice few games since being called up. I hope he keeps it up he is a good kid and adds a lot of speed to the line-up.

Does anyone one know how Danny boy is doing down in the minors?

Just looked up Valencia, doing horrible in Rochester.

[sec 16 row16 seat 16 17]

Bruno is trying to straighten out valencia good luck.

[dxmnkd316]

We're STILL good!!!

[Beauner]

Rever has had a nice few games since being called up. I hope he keeps it up he is a good kid and adds a lot of speed to the line-up.

Does anyone one know how Danny boy is doing down in the minors?

Just looked up Valencia, doing horrible in Rochester.

One of the fishwraps had an article about the adjustments they are trying to make with Valencia. It's not going to be a quick fix I don't think. He said something about "Going back to ground zero and getting him comfortable and to relax his mind a little bit and let his swing take over."
He's shown flashes of being able to hit .270-.290 with 15-20 HRs, but he's going to have to get everything straight in his head and physically to do so.

[Hobey Baker]

It is amazing what starting pitching can do!

Yes. Those pitchers driving in 11 runs two out of the last three games was huge!

17 games of 39 where they've scored 2 runs or less. That's 44% of the games played this year where they needed Justin Verlander, Felix Hernandez, CC Sabbathia, Roy Halladay or Jared Weaver pitching to have a shot at winning.

How did the kids do in those starts?

[dryfly]

We're STILL good!!!

Beating the Brewers twice means we're GREAT!!! Not just good.

I don't care how bad we are if a Minnesota team beats a Wisconsin team I'm on board the fan parade! [Huge Parade Wave To Y'All]....

[gopherguy13]

Queue up the Starship...

[The Rube]

Queue up the Starship...

Right now I'd go with Wilson Phillips' "Hold On."