Opponent Recruiting

by **Bash Brother** » Sat 4/07/12 5:04 pm

GrandForksGopher wrote:Windsor drafted UND recruit Nick Schmaltz today in the OHL draft. They now own the rights to him and his brother Jordan, whom is also a UND recruit. Obviously this pick was done in an effort for Windsor to try and lure them in. Not what you wanted to see if you're a UND fan.

Were not UND fans.

by **Greyeagle** » Sat 4/07/12 5:25 pm

The Mole wrote:
GrandForksGopher wrote:Windsor drafted UND recruit Nick Schmaltz today in the OHL draft. They now own the rights to him and his brother Jordan, whom is also a UND recruit. Obviously this pick was done in an effort for Windsor to try and lure them in. Not what you wanted to see if you're a UND fan.

Were not UND fans.

Simple pleasure.

by **Chris83** » Sat 4/07/12 5:36 pm

The Mole wrote:
GrandForksGopher wrote:Windsor drafted UND recruit Nick Schmaltz today in the OHL draft. They now own the rights to him and his brother Jordan, whom is also a UND recruit. Obviously this pick was done in an effort for Windsor to try and lure them in. Not what you wanted to see if you're a UND fan.

Were not UND fans.

Hence, the title of the thread

by **Bonin21** » Mon 4/23/12 1:57 pm

With today's news about Seth Jones, the poor UND fans are going to have to run their in-depth statistical analysis on producing NHL players against another team...

Once it gets to three teams, is that enough to constitute a research paper there?

by **Zwak** » Mon 4/23/12 2:02 pm

Bonin21 wrote:With today's news about Seth Jones, the poor UND fans are going to have to run their in-depth statistical analysis on producing NHL players against another team... Once it gets to three teams, is that enough to constitute a research paper there?

This is not an original thought by me but it bears repeating...exactly how tough is it to 'develop' guys like Toews, Parise. etc???

by **LeoPohl** » Mon 4/23/12 2:06 pm

Zwak wrote:
Bonin21 wrote:With today's news about Seth Jones, the poor UND fans are going to have to run their in-depth statistical analysis on producing NHL players against another team... Once it gets to three teams, is that enough to constitute a research paper there?

This is not an original thought by me but it bears repeating...exactly how tough is it to 'develop' guys like Toews, Parise. etc???

They certainly did a bang-up job with Finley.

Wow! My first post in 18 days. :shock:

by **Hammy** » Mon 4/23/12 2:15 pm

Zwak wrote:This is not an original thought by me but it bears repeating...exactly how tough is it to 'develop' guys like Toews, Parise. etc???

I've always said that some of the talk about "development" among many of these levels (USHL/NTDP, college, etc) is overrated. A kid like Parise or a Vanek would still be good NHLers no matter where they went (CHL and most NCAA schools). It is disingenuous to act otherwise. It's not like these schools are taking scrubs and turning them into a Vanek/Parise.

by **SiouxFanatic** » Mon 4/23/12 2:54 pm

Hammy wrote:
Zwak wrote:This is not an original thought by me but it bears repeating...exactly how tough is it to 'develop' guys like Toews, Parise. etc???

I've always said that some of the talk about "development" among many of these levels (USHL/NTDP, college, etc) is overrated. A kid like Parise or a Vanek would still be good NHLers no matter where they went (CHL and most NCAA schools). It is disingenuous to act otherwise. It's not like these schools are taking scrubs and turning them into a Vanek/Parise.

^ Exactly.

Which is why some of the disparaging comments towards the NCAA from CHL proponents is just invalid in cases like Parise, Toews, Vanek, and Erik Johnson etc.

It doesn't matter where they went to play, NCAA or CHL. They'd still be good.

Now if Jones miraculously chooses UND vs. the CHL. I hope he doesn't expect to pad his stats like he would be able to in the WHL. If he is able to put up 20-30 points and simply play good defense, he'll go #2 in the draft. I believe Erik Johnson had 24 points as a freshman? That's pretty respectable for a freshman defenseman.

by **gopher_fan_in_sue_land** » Mon 4/23/12 2:57 pm

Bonin21 wrote:With today's news about Seth Jones, the poor UND fans are going to have to run their in-depth statistical analysis on producing NHL players against another team... Once it gets to three teams, is that enough to constitute a research paper there?

What, exactly, is the news about Seth Jones? The fact that the team that holds his WHL rights has traded those rights to another team (Everett to Portland, right to discuss a contract)?

If that is the news, it really doesn't mean a whole lot of anything. To me, it means that Everett didn't think they could sign him. That leaves the door open for a number of other options, not the least of which is that Jones may be looking at going the college route.

Or am I missing something? (There was no post in this thread explaining what happened re: Jones that I read?)

by **thedude** » Mon 4/23/12 2:58 pm

gopher_fan_in_sue_land wrote:
Bonin21 wrote:With today's news about Seth Jones, the poor UND fans are going to have to run their in-depth statistical analysis on producing NHL players against another team... Once it gets to three teams, is that enough to constitute a research paper there?

What, exactly, is the news about Seth Jones? The fact that the team that holds his WHL rights has traded those rights to another team (Everett to Portland, right to discuss a contract)?

If that is the news, it really doesn't mean a whole lot of anything. To me, it means that Everett didn't think they could sign him. That leaves the door open for a number of other options, not the least of which is that Jones may be looking at going the college route.

Or am I missing something? (There was no post in this thread explaining what happened re: Jones that I read?)

I'm not sure if it's been touched on, but has Seth Jones put himself in position to go to School early? He's a late 94, so technically he'd be a Sr. next year...

by **SiouxFanatic** » Mon 4/23/12 3:03 pm

gopher_fan_in_sue_land wrote:What, exactly, is the news about Seth Jones? The fact that the team that holds his WHL rights has traded those rights to another team (Everett to Portland, right to discuss a contract)?

If that is the news, it really doesn't mean a whole lot of anything. To me, it means that Everett didn't think they could sign him. That leaves the door open for a number of other options, not the least of which is that Jones may be looking at going the college route.

Or am I missing something? (There was no post in this thread explaining what happened re: Jones that I read?)

Everrett traded the rights to talk to Seth Jones to Portland. If Jones decides to play for Portland, Portland would have to acquire those rights from Everett.

Quite a few possible interpretations of what it means.

1. Everett doesn't think they can land Jones.
2. Jones doesn't want to play for Everett but maybe said he'd play for a team like Portland.
3. Portland thinks they have a better chance of landing him. They've had recent success at doing as such.

@thedude: Seth Jones accelerated his learning so he would be able to have the option of going to college or the CHL.

by **thedude** » Mon 4/23/12 3:05 pm

SiouxFanatic wrote:
gopher_fan_in_sue_land wrote:What, exactly, is the news about Seth Jones? The fact that the team that holds his WHL rights has traded those rights to another team (Everett to Portland, right to discuss a contract)?

If that is the news, it really doesn't mean a whole lot of anything. To me, it means that Everett didn't think they could sign him. That leaves the door open for a number of other options, not the least of which is that Jones may be looking at going the college route.

Or am I missing something? (There was no post in this thread explaining what happened re: Jones that I read?)

Everrett traded the rights to talk to Seth Jones to Portland. If Jones decides to play for Portland, Portland would have to acquire those rights from Everett.

Quite a few possible interpretations of what it means.

1. Everett doesn't think they can land Jones.
2. Jones doesn't want to play for Everett but maybe said he'd play for a team like Portland.
3. Portland thinks they have a better chance of landing him. They've had recent success at doing as such.

@thedude: Seth Jones accelerated his learning so he would be able to have the option of going to college or the CHL.

Gotcha, figured he would have but hadn't heard it talked about. Thanks.

by **Bonin21** » Mon 4/23/12 3:09 pm

Sounds like the discussion is over now, folks. Per @BrianHuddle: "Was just told by a reliable source that Seth Jones is "100 percent" to Portland. #WHL"

by **LeoPohl** » Mon 4/23/12 3:12 pm

SiouxFanatic wrote:
Hammy wrote:
Zwak wrote:This is not an original thought by me but it bears repeating...exactly how tough is it to 'develop' guys like Toews, Parise. etc???

I've always said that some of the talk about "development" among many of these levels (USHL/NTDP, college, etc) is overrated. A kid like Parise or a Vanek would still be good NHLers no matter where they went (CHL and most NCAA schools). It is disingenuous to act otherwise. It's not like these schools are taking scrubs and turning them into a Vanek/Parise.

^ Exactly.

Which is why some of the disparaging comments towards the NCAA from CHL proponents is just invalid in cases like Parise, Toews, Vanek, and Erik Johnson etc.

It doesn't matter where they went to play, NCAA or CHL. They'd still be good.

Now if Jones miraculously chooses UND vs. the CHL. I hope he doesn't expect to pad his stats like he would be able to in the WHL. If he is able to put up 20-30 points and simply play good defense, he'll go #2 in the draft. I believe Erik Johnson had 24 points as a freshman? That's pretty respectable for a freshman defenseman.

I actually agree with a Sioux fan? The end days must be coming. :shock:

I look at undrafted/low draft picks like Justin Garrison, Brian Elliott, Joe Pavelski, as much better gauges to a team's reputation. Paul Stastny comes to mind. Yes, he went in the second round in 2005, but only to a "hometown" team after going undrafted the year before.

There's also going to be cases where players simply don't perform up to expected levels (like Skille, Fischer, or White), or their NHL teams simply cannot judge their talent effectively (like Lee or Finley).

by **SiouxFanatic** » Mon 4/23/12 3:14 pm

SiouxFanatic wrote:3. Portland thinks they have a better chance of landing him. They've had recent success at doing as such.

Looks like it was interpretation #3. Shoot! :anger:

I truly hate the CHL. I wouldn't be nearly as mad if he chose another NCAA school. CHL sucks. :mrgreen:

by **Eric Vegoe** » Mon 4/23/12 5:10 pm

I wonder if college coaches would rather have a player go to the CHL, or have the player for a one and done college experience? I think coaches are hoping they get these top NHL picks for three years, but it's kind of been the trend where it's two years and off to the next stop for most and some are gone after just a year.

If the player is planning on trying to be in the NHL at 19 or 20, it makes some sense to go to a CHL and be a top minute player. It's rare that these guys step into those roles at schools like Minnesota and North Dakota.

by **thedude** » Tue 4/24/12 7:05 am

SiouxFanatic wrote:
SiouxFanatic wrote:3. Portland thinks they have a better chance of landing him. They've had recent success at doing as such.

Looks like it was interpretation #3. Shoot!

I truly hate the CHL. I wouldn't be nearly as mad if he chose another NCAA school. CHL sucks.

That may be true, but Seth Jones should be commended for the way he's handled this. He didn't make a commitment to leverage what team he wanted to be on only to back out and leave the NCAA team looking to fill his spot. Good luck to him.

by **Bash Brother** » Sat 4/28/12 4:31 pm

Miles Koules will be playing for the Medicine Hat Tigers rather than The UND Whioux

by **SiouxFanatic** » Sat 4/28/12 5:01 pm

The Mole wrote:Miles Koules will be playing for the Medicine Hat Tigers rather than The UND Whioux

Not surprising at all. His progress/development has seemed to have tapered off. The fact he didn't make the U18 team that won gold indicated that, IMO. UND is sitting pretty nicely at forward depth for next season and I wonder if he realized that and didn't expect to see a whole lot of ice time?

I'm sure Medicine Hat will have the room to give him quite a bit of playing time.

by **Hammy** » Sat 4/28/12 6:41 pm

As I said on Twitter, from a talent standpoint, I don't see Koules as much of a loss. Although that is more from a short term (next year) perspective as opposed to what he may have developed into a few years down the road. Maybe he is a loss a few years from now.

At the same time, it isn't helping UND's rep to have the higher profile decommits they've had over the last year or so.

by **SiouxFanatic** » Sat 4/28/12 7:04 pm

Hammy wrote:As I said on Twitter, from a talent standpoint, I don't see Koules as much of a loss. Although that is more from a short term (next year) perspective as opposed to what he may have developed into a few years down the road. Maybe he is a loss a few years from now.

At the same time, it isn't helping UND's rep to have the higher profile decommits they've had over the last year or so.

Still does suck see another decommitment though. Also, his move to the WHL was indeed because of ice time as well as games.

The common denominator between all the decommits? USNTDP. Maybe UND needs to not focus too heavily on kids coming from there? I don't know what they are teaching at Ann Arbor but it is becoming more and more prevalent for kids in the USA program to renege on their college commitments for the CHL. It isn't just UND that has suffered from it but they certainly have been burned by losing high profile recruits like JT Miller and Matteau.

by **Bonin21** » Sat 4/28/12 7:08 pm

Why don't they start recruiting more kids from their own state that come out of the womb with a (TBD) logo tattooed on their rear ends? Oh, wait... they already have all three of those kids signed up.

If the Schmaltz's bail, I'd say the panic could set in but overall they're still recruiting well. They will just start recruiting more kids as an allowance for doubtful recruits.

by **IDGopher** » Sat 4/28/12 7:28 pm

I doubt that USA Hockey, and the NTDP are doing the CHL any favors.

by **Hammy** » Sat 4/28/12 8:26 pm

Yeah, there are NTDP kids that go CHL but its not like the majority of them don't live up to their commitment.

A scout told me tonight that losing Koules is a bigger deal than I think. Mainly because of the dad and his willingness to contribute to their program financially because his son would be there. Maybe so. I was just focused on the kid's talent more than anything else.

by **frozen4champs** » Sat 4/28/12 8:43 pm

I think it's funny the Whioux fans are saying "we didn't need them". Look what happened to Mn about 4 years ago when players left early. It has more of an effect on depth than anything else. The Gophers ended up playing with players who would normally be fill in players at best. If the Whioux fans think that losing top pospects and replacing them with 21 year old Canadians or NAHL players is an equal swap, they are crazy...

by **sfo19** » Sat 4/28/12 8:46 pm

Hammy wrote:Yeah, there are NTDP kids that go CHL but its not like the majority of them don't live up to their commitment.

A scout told me tonight that losing Koules is a bigger deal than I think. Mainly because of the dad and his willingness to contribute to their program financially because his son would be there. Maybe so. I was just focused on the kid's talent more than anything else.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Call me crazy, but UND really doesn't need financial contributions from Koules' dad. Not getting money from his family is not going to affect the program. They raise enough money from the alumni base as is.

by **sfo19** » Sat 4/28/12 8:50 pm

frozen4champs wrote:I think it's funny the Whioux fans are saying "we didn't need them". Look what happened to Mn about 4 years ago when players left early. It has more of an effect on depth than anything else. The Gophers ended up playing with players who would normally be fill in players at best. If the Whioux fans think that losing top pospects and replacing them with 21 year old Canadians or NAHL players is an equal swap, they are crazy...

Koules isn't really a top prospect anymore. He's ranked 201st in the draft rankings, and likely won't be drafted. Just to play devil's advocate. The reason UND fans are saying it's not a huge deal is because UND only needs to replace 2 forwards and there are 3 scheduled to come in, plus gaining back some injured guys. There is less of a depth issue than last year. They played with "fill-in" players this last season and did fine.

by **Slap Shot** » Sat 4/28/12 9:05 pm

sfo19 wrote:Koules isn't really a top prospect anymore. He's ranked 201st in the draft rankings, and likely won't be drafted. Just to play devil's advocate. The reason UND fans are saying it's not a huge deal is because UND only needs to replace 2 forwards and there are 3 scheduled to come in, plus gaining back some injured guys. There is less of a depth issue than last year. They played with "fill-in" players this last season and did fine.

They did, but 'doing fine' will never be the desired goal for a program such as UND (or UM for that matter).

Don't get me wrong - I'm not predicting a domino effect from all of this, but that doesn't mean it couldn't present a weaker link in the chain than desired.

by **Hammy** » Sat 4/28/12 9:32 pm

sfo19 wrote:
Hammy wrote:Yeah, there are NTDP kids that go CHL but its not like the majority of them don't live up to their commitment.

A scout told me tonight that losing Koules is a bigger deal than I think. Mainly because of the dad and his willingness to contribute to their program financially because his son would be there. Maybe so. I was just focused on the kid's talent more than anything else.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Call me crazy, but UND really doesn't need financial contributions from Koules' dad. Not getting money from his family is not going to affect the program. They raise enough money from the alumni base as is.

Never said they had no others. However, you are kidding yourself if you don't think losing a potential donor that used to be a part owner in the NHL means nothing. The guy has deep pockets and it sounds like he was clearly motivated to contribute some significant things. You can scoff at it but the source of the info is definitely no joke. Certainly knows more than you would I can guarantee that.

by **frozen4champs** » Sat 4/28/12 9:34 pm

sfo19 wrote:
frozen4champs wrote:I think it's funny the Whioux fans are saying "we didn't need them". Look what happened to Mn about 4 years ago when players left early. It has more of an effect on depth than anything else. The Gophers ended up playing with players who would normally be fill in players at best. If the Whioux fans think that losing top pospects and replacing them with 21 year old Canadians or NAHL players is an equal swap, they are crazy...

Koules isn't really a top prospect anymore. He's ranked 201st in the draft rankings, and likely won't be drafted. Just to play devil's advocate. The reason UND fans are saying it's not a huge deal is because UND only needs to replace 2 forwards and there are 3 scheduled to come in, plus gaining back some injured guys. There is less of a depth issue than last year. They played with "fill-in" players this last season and did fine.

Ok. I guess the 21 year old Canadian that just signed must be a better prospect :confused2:

by **Hammy** » Sat 4/28/12 9:40 pm

frozen4champs wrote:I think it's funny the Whioux fans are saying "we didn't need them". Look what happened to Mn about 4 years ago when players left early. It has more of an effect on depth than anything else. The Gophers ended up playing with players who would normally be fill in players at best. If the Whioux fans think that losing top pospects and replacing them with 21 year old Canadians or NAHL players is an equal swap, they are crazy...

This is why I said I don't think it will hurt them next year but you could make an argument that these are the types of losses that hurt two or three seasons down the line.

by **brianvf** » Sun 4/29/12 2:25 am

Bonin21 wrote:Why don't they start recruiting more kids from their own state?

The 90's called.

frozen4champs wrote:Ok. I guess the 21 year old Canadian that just signed must be a better prospect

Of course he is...he's actually committed to the program. :wink:

These NTDP players don't seem to know the meaning of that word...

by **Bonin21** » Sun 4/29/12 8:22 pm

Wow, the NTDP pipeline to Canada continues: Ryan Hartman (Miami) to Plymouth. Now we wait on Trouba.

by **SiouxFanatic** » Sun 4/29/12 8:54 pm

Hammy wrote:Yeah, there are NTDP kids that go CHL but its not like the majority of them don't live up to their commitment.

Bonin21 wrote:Wow, the NTDP pipeline to Canada continues: Ryan Hartman (Miami) to Plymouth. Now we wait on Trouba.

Yeah, Hammy...your statement is correct but there seems to be a trend that is growing that is beginning to say otherwise. You may disagree but if this keeps up I think it'd be hard deny something is up with the NTDP.

@Bonin: The CHL team that has his rights definitely have to be pressing hard to get him to renege on his Michigan commitment. You gotta think they have a pretty good shot.

Brad Schlossman said that he knows at least one more U18er who is considering reneging on his college commitment for the CHL.

by **Bash Brother** » Sun 4/29/12 8:57 pm

The USNTDP is not an NCAA feeder program. The kids are allowed to go wherever they want.

There is nothing "up" with the program. The kids just think that is the best option at this time. It happens.

The sky is not falling.

by **SiouxFanatic** » Sun 4/29/12 9:06 pm

The Mole wrote:The USNTDP is not an NCAA feeder program. The kids are allowed to go wherever they want.

There is nothing "up" with the program. The kids just think that is the best option at this time. It happens.

The sky is not falling.

Did I ever say it was a feeder program for the NCAA? Yeah, they can go wherever they want but I don't think it's really cool that these kids are committing to college programs only to renege. 7 U18ers breaking their commitments in the last 10 months.

I wish more kids were like Seth Jones.

by **Bash Brother** » Sun 4/29/12 9:12 pm

To me a college commitment says, "That is my college"

Not necessarily that they will attend college. Sort of how all kids in Grand Forks say they want to go to UND but then many of them do not (Can't get in).

by **SiouxFanatic** » Sun 4/29/12 9:15 pm

The Mole wrote:To me a college commitment says, "That is my college"

Not necessarily that they will attend college. Sort of how all kids in Grand Forks say they want to go to UND but then many of them do not (Can't get in).

I agree partially on this. If it's just a verbal commitment, I don't find it as bad. But when they sign LOI's and then renege, that is where I have a problem with what these players are doing. Most of the players that are switching to the CHL had already signed LOI's.

by **Bash Brother** » Sun 4/29/12 9:16 pm

Its unfortunate, but its just another recruiting hurdle for college programs to figure out.

by **SiouxFanatic** » Sun 4/29/12 9:24 pm

The Mole wrote:Its unfortunate, but its just another recruiting hurdle for college programs to figure out.

True, I think it is becoming a more glaring issue and maybe I'm just putting too much focus on the USNTDP since it's been a bit prevalent in happening with players in the program as of late.

by **Bash Brother** » Sun 4/29/12 9:31 pm

SiouxFanatic wrote:
The Mole wrote:Its unfortunate, but its just another recruiting hurdle for college programs to figure out.

True, I think it is becoming a more glaring issue and maybe I'm just putting too much focus on the USNTDP since it's been a bit prevalent in happening with players in the program as of late.

I don't think its worth looking at in terms of the NTDP. I think its more productive to look at as a whole.

I really just wish there weren't junior leagues and everyone played college, but thats just me.

by **MhdGopher** » Mon 4/30/12 12:31 am

Somethings rotten in Denmark when players that UNITED STATES of AMERICA Hockey is pouring significant resources into, choose to play some of their most formative years in CANADA.

Of course that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

by **Hammy** » Mon 4/30/12 12:51 am

The problem for me is the NTDP is supposed to be the leading advocate for U.S. hockey and U.S. hockey means taking the college hockey route. Obviously something isn't hitting home with some kids in that program. I take heart that these aren't MN kids pulling this crap on college teams. But who knows if that will remain that way as we move forward.

The thing I always wonder about is where the parents are in these situations. They aren't setting a very good example to let their kid make these decisions and then renege (especially when they have given verbal AND signed commitments).

I don't blame kids for going to the NTDP but I've been at the point where I feel they are just as well off doing what Cammarata did and play USHL for a couple of seasons.

by **JDUBBS1280** » Mon 4/30/12 4:25 pm

Hammy wrote:
Zwak wrote:This is not an original thought by me but it bears repeating...exactly how tough is it to 'develop' guys like Toews, Parise. etc???

I've always said that some of the talk about "development" among many of these levels (USHL/NTDP, college, etc) is overrated. A kid like Parise or a Vanek would still be good NHLers no matter where they went (CHL and most NCAA schools). It is disingenuous to act otherwise. It's not like these schools are taking scrubs and turning them into a Vanek/Parise.

You mean Wisconsin really isn't NHL University?

by **JDUBBS1280** » Mon 4/30/12 4:34 pm

SiouxFanatic wrote:
Hammy wrote:Yeah, there are NTDP kids that go CHL but its not like the majority of them don't live up to their commitment.

Bonin21 wrote:Wow, the NTDP pipeline to Canada continues: Ryan Hartman (Miami) to Plymouth. Now we wait on Trouba.

Yeah, Hammy...your statement is correct but there seems to be a trend that is growing that is beginning to say otherwise. You may disagree but if this keeps up I think it'd be hard deny something is up with the NTDP.

@Bonin: The CHL team that has his rights definitely have to be pressing hard to get him to renege on his Michigan commitment. You gotta think they have a pretty good shot.

Brad Schlossman said that he knows at least one more U18er who is considering reneging on his college commitment for the CHL.

I don't see the Gophers losing as many of their NTDP guys to the CHL. I guess the community-based model these Minnesota kids grow up playing in has it's benefits

by **Bonin21** » Mon 4/30/12 5:47 pm

The most annoying part of the situation might be the reaction of Canadian fans if these kids beat them in the Olympics or WJC. "With players developed in Canada..."

by **SiouxFanatic** » Mon 4/30/12 6:25 pm

JDUBBS1280 wrote:I don't see the Gophers losing as many of their NTDP guys to the CHL. I guess the community-based model these Minnesota kids grow up playing in has it's benefits

Very true. With North Dakota, 3 of the 4 former NTDPers that play for UND are Minnesotans(Mattson, Kristo, and Forbort). I think it also helps that they are in an area where college hockey is king. They grow up to be fans of college hockey.

Unfortunately, not all NTDP kids come from the state of Minnesota. :lol:

by **Chris Eckes** » Mon 4/30/12 11:38 pm

We oughta do something about that...

by **fishingmn** » Tue 5/01/12 5:34 am

The Mole wrote:To me a college commitment says, "That is my college"

Not necessarily that they will attend college. Sort of how all kids in Grand Forks say they want to go to UND but then many of them do not (Can't get in).

Who the heck can't get into UND? If you get an 18 on your ACT (34th percentile) you can still gain automatic admittance. It's easier to get automatic acceptance at UND then even St. Cloud or Mankato.

by **Hammy** » Tue 5/01/12 9:47 am

I think people underestimate how often a low ACT score or weak academics play into a recruit's final choice for college.

by **dryfly** » Tue 5/01/12 8:33 pm

Hammy wrote:I think people underestimate how often a low ACT score or weak academics play into a recruit's final choice for college.

Thank you for saying that. My thoughts exactly. Personally I wish MORE kids went the CHL route and that we had an option of tnat caliber here I the states... For that matter I wish we had it for basketball and football too even if those sports ended up looking more like Ivy League than say the SEC afterward. It is after all COLLEGE athletics.

by **GrandForksGopher** » Mon 5/07/12 7:00 pm

Not surprising, Seth Jones officially signed with Portland on Saturday night.

http://www.portlandtribune.com/sports/s ... 2834602900

by **Hammy** » Thu 5/10/12 1:28 pm

I don't blame Jones for his choice. It is a tough decision because the odds are greater that he is going to struggle in the WCHA than he is in the WHL given the age differences, etc and he is really going to be under an intense spotlight next year given his draft is next summer.

by **Tee09** » Thu 5/24/12 4:43 pm

I saw this on ESPN and wondered what UConn was thinking with the announcement. Purely PC stuff or is it really a recruiting advantage to do this?

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story ... ut-huskies

by **psych** » Thu 5/24/12 4:57 pm

Tee09 wrote:I saw this on ESPN and wondered what UConn was thinking with the announcement. Purely PC stuff or is it really a recruiting advantage to do this?

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story ... ut-huskies

Let's see if it pays off for 'em. I think they should also put out an announcement saying they are now accepting hockey players who made it past the pee-wee level in their youth.

by **dryfly** » Thu 5/24/12 7:27 pm

Tee09 wrote:I saw this on ESPN and wondered what UConn was thinking with the announcement. Purely PC stuff or is it really a recruiting advantage to do this?

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story ... ut-huskies

First 'high stick' joke gets a game misconduct...

by **edlem** » Fri 5/25/12 9:13 am

How about "checking from behind"?

dryfly wrote:
Tee09 wrote:I saw this on ESPN and wondered what UConn was thinking with the announcement. Purely PC stuff or is it really a recruiting advantage to do this?

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story ... ut-huskies

First 'high stick' joke gets a game misconduct...

by **LeoPohl** » Fri 5/25/12 9:34 am

edlem wrote:
dryfly wrote:
Tee09 wrote:I saw this on ESPN and wondered what UConn was thinking with the announcement. Purely PC stuff or is it really a recruiting advantage to do this?

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story ... ut-huskies

First 'high stick' joke gets a game misconduct...

How about "checking from behind"?

Seems like a better fit for me. :lol:

Should make for some good defensmen; what could make them happier than manning the rearguard? You know they're going to be aggressive on the point and be physical man-on-man.

Any more out there, or is that enough?

To those who are unaware, I'm making fun of the fact that someone thinks they should make this announcement. If homosexuals want to play for a team--so what?

by **xyz** » Fri 5/25/12 12:57 pm

I know these are all just innocent jokes and I don't think it's a huge deal, but this is probably more than enough when you consider the very serious roots of this. The You Can Play movement is a very honorable cause being led by the family of Maple Leafs GM Brian Burke in memory of his late son, who after coming out related that the constant gay jokes and slurs he heard from his youth hockey teammates, who did not know he was gay, led him to quit the game. Hundreds of NHLers are lending their support to this cause, and Cal Clutterbuck just made a public service announcement for them.

by **dryfly** » Sat 5/26/12 12:19 am

xyz wrote:I know these are all just innocent jokes and I don't think it's a huge deal, but this is probably more than enough when you consider the very serious roots of this. The You Can Play movement is a very honorable cause being led by the family of Maple Leafs GM Brian Burke in memory of his late son, who after coming out related that the constant gay jokes and slurs he heard from his youth hockey teammates, who did not know he was gay, led him to quit the game. Hundreds of NHLers are lending their support to this cause, and Cal Clutterbuck just made a public service announcement for them.

I get the seriousness but the jokes aren't going away and it is a big deal. There are two issues - keeping blatant harassment in check [agree with that] but also encouraging kids to acquire thicker skin. They will need it - to protect them from barbs from their teammates and even more so from opposing teams and fans.

It is what it is.

by **gopherguy13** » Sat 5/26/12 12:04 pm

dryfly wrote:
xyz wrote:I know these are all just innocent jokes and I don't think it's a huge deal, but this is probably more than enough when you consider the very serious roots of this. The You Can Play movement is a very honorable cause being led by the family of Maple Leafs GM Brian Burke in memory of his late son, who after coming out related that the constant gay jokes and slurs he heard from his youth hockey teammates, who did not know he was gay, led him to quit the game. Hundreds of NHLers are lending their support to this cause, and Cal Clutterbuck just made a public service announcement for them.

I get the seriousness but the jokes aren't going away and it is a big deal. There are two issues - keeping blatant harassment in check [agree with that] but also encouraging kids to acquire thicker skin. They will need it - to protect them from barbs from their teammates and even more so from opposing teams and fans.

It is what it is.

I think out of the closet gay kids face enough hate in their lives up to the point of reaching college that they'll know what they are getting into if they play hockey.

by **xyz** » Sat 5/26/12 2:02 pm

This whole movement isn't aimed so much at blatant harassment, although that's obviously a problem and can't be condoned, as much as it is at the entirely unintentional remarks by people who are good-naturedly joking around that can still have quite an impact. The idea is that you just don't know if someone around you might be struggling with issues, and might have a really difficult time if people around him are constantly calling something they don't like "gay." As Brian Burke's surviving son said, "let's end 'that's gay' or 'he's a f**.' It makes LGBT athletes feel unsafe to come out. Just call a guy an a*****e and be done with it."

Could thicker skin help people get through life? That's true for everybody on the planet. But it's awful easy to sit from distance and tell people who are going through situations you really can't imagine to just ignore things that cause a lot of pain.

by **dryfly** » Mon 5/28/12 10:37 pm

xyz wrote:Could thicker skin help people get through life? That's true for everybody on the planet. But it's awful easy to sit from distance and tell people who are going through situations you really can't imagine to just ignore things that cause a lot of pain.

I was going to let that slide and move on but damn - you have no idea.

I lived as a kid in the south circa 1968-1973... in small rural towns desegregating for the first time. Forced by NORTHERN Federal judges to do so - we were Yankee carptbaggers - my father sent there to straighten out their messed up factories. I had longish hair - at least long by the local cracker standards. So I heard it all - believe me - and I am not even gay.

But you learn pretty fast to differentiate between the real bigots and those just trying to get under your skin and get a reaction. Most of the time a well returned barb will not only diffuse but get those guys on your side. At least it worked for me.

The real bigots there is no hope - or not much - while there I saw real honest to gawd cross burnings - the guys who did it driving up and down the street in trucks, white sheets, shooting off shotguns. One of the kids in school bragged his daddy was the regional 'grand dragon' like an Edina punk might brag his daddy was President of the Minikahda Club. It was unreal. My kids to this day say I lived 'Mississippi Burning'...

Lastly - my kids while they played youth hockey weren't naturals at it - they were endurance athletes so found themselves better at swimming, cross country, track and in triathlons. They excelled at it - one state champion another with national cuts at D3 level. Believe it or not there are more than a few openly gay athletes in those sports and quite a lot of tolerance. One thing I've noticed is there is a LOT of humor and ribbing among the teammates. The other is they tend to train co-ed so there always has been a bit of gender tension.

Point is humor is the remedy not the disease. Sooner they get there the sooner this ceases to be 'news'...

Now back to opponent recruiting...

by **Tee09** » Mon 5/28/12 10:51 pm

psych wrote:
Tee09 wrote:I saw this on ESPN and wondered what UConn was thinking with the announcement. Purely PC stuff or is it really a recruiting advantage to do this?

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story ... ut-huskies

Let's see if it pays off for 'em. I think they should also put out an announcement saying they are now accepting hockey players who made it past the pee-wee level in their youth.

I'll admit my second thought was "Wait. UConn plays hockey???"

by **xyz** » Tue 5/29/12 9:16 am

Opponent recruiting is the point of this thread and I'll stick to it from here on out, and in all seriousness that had to be one hell of an interesting experience for you living in the south in that era, but I will suggest that one thing makes this situation slightly different: we're not talking about jokes/insults where both parties understand what is intended. We're talking about kids struggling with a huge issue and trying to determine whether they have to continue to keep their very identity secret, only to hear their friends and peers say things that make it much harder for them to resolve those issues and decide how they are going to live their life.

Again, thick skin is valuable; I'm in complete agreement with you on that front. And also on the ideas that you've never going to go through life without hearing things you don't like, and that good-natured humor can take forms that taken out of context sound coarse. But it's not an either/or thing; realization of those principles doesn't mean it's a bad idea to let people know that things they say might be causing a lot of pain even if they have no intention of doing so.

by **Hammy** » Fri 7/13/12 10:12 pm

Been saying this was his likely choice for months but now it is official. Jake Guentzel to UNO

by **streakygopher** » Fri 7/13/12 11:45 pm

Hammy wrote:Been saying this was his likely choice for months but now it is official. Jake Guentzel to UNO

The kid can play, but honestly I don't see this as a loss for the U. Guessing he's a 4 year player and that's a plus for UNO.

by **Melvin** » Thu 7/19/12 8:58 am

xyz wrote:Opponent recruiting is the point of this thread and I'll stick to it from here on out, and in all seriousness that had to be one hell of an interesting experience for you living in the south in that era, but I will suggest that one thing makes this situation slightly different: we're not talking about jokes/insults where both parties understand what is intended. We're talking about kids struggling with a huge issue and trying to determine whether they have to continue to keep their very identity secret, only to hear their friends and peers say things that make it much harder for them to resolve those issues and decide how they are going to live their life.

Again, thick skin is valuable; I'm in complete agreement with you on that front. And also on the ideas that you've never going to go through life without hearing things you don't like, and that good-natured humor can take forms that taken out of context sound coarse. But it's not an either/or thing; realization of those principles doesn't mean it's a bad idea to let people know that things they say might be causing a lot of pain even if they have no intention of doing so.

Well said...

by **Hammy** » Thu 7/26/12 11:21 pm

Teemu Kivihalme of Burnsville heading to CC. Interesting choice.

by **streakygopher** » Mon 7/30/12 9:48 pm

Hammy wrote:Teemu Kivihalme of Burnsville heading to CC. Interesting choice.

Yeah, heard he made the decision this weekend. Pretty odd to me that he decided so early.

by **team22tank** » Mon 7/30/12 9:52 pm

Hammy wrote:Teemu Kivihalme of Burnsville heading to CC. Interesting choice.

Not being a smart ass, why is that an interesting choice?

by **Hammy** » Mon 7/30/12 11:04 pm

team22tank wrote:
Hammy wrote:Teemu Kivihalme of Burnsville heading to CC. Interesting choice.

Not being a smart ass, why is that an interesting choice?

I hear some schools were surprised that he made a choice as abruptly as he did.

by **Hammy** » Fri 9/14/12 7:45 pm

Hearing a rumor that Wade Murphy of Penticton has committed to UND. I'm sure their people will confirm it (if true) in the coming days.

by **WestCoastGopherGuy** » Sat 9/15/12 1:03 pm

UND always seems to get those kids that decommit from a prior college commitment

by **Hammy** » Sat 9/15/12 4:13 pm

What are you getting at? :wink:

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