Vikings 2012 Season: Gentlemen, We Are Hosed

[Gopherguy05]

GOP abandons last-minute stadium plan. As you were.

Edit: House will vote on plan that is (was?) on House / Senate floors on Monday, allegedly.

So, they blew up the original plan for the crap that caused all the drama and now their dropping it?

Wow.

The best part is the speaker of the house announcing all this and then saying he would vote no for it because he can't vote for a plan without a referendum.

Way to say that now and not like, 6 months ago....

[Handyman]

And with the first pick in the 2013 NFL Draft the LA Vikings select Matt Barkley QB USC

[sec 16 row16 seat 16 17]

is monday the doomsday vote.

[Jupiter]

"I want to see it pass. I won't vote for it, but want it to pass."

What in the hell is this BS?!?!?!? He wants it to pass but won't vote for it? Are you F'n kidding me?

[sec 16 row16 seat 16 17]

zellers what a idiot.

[Armadillo]

zellers what a idiot.

He's my rep, too. Voted for him. Urgh.

[Hammy]

Zellers was also born in Grand Forks. No wonder he is such a pile of s**t.

[rowshkex]

The only reasonable excuse I could envision accepting is that he wants the stadium, but his constituents do not... But I find this extremely hard to believe.

[Greyeagle]

The only reasonable excuse I could envision accepting is that he wants the stadium, but his constituents do not... But I find this extremely hard to believe.

Methinks Zellers sees grandiose plans for himself in the REBUMBLICAN party and if he supports it he's toast with the tea grabbers.

[sec 16 row16 seat 16 17]

maybe zellers want's the queens in grand forks.

[alignrock]

The only reasonable excuse I could envision accepting is that he wants the stadium, but his constituents do not... But I find this extremely hard to believe.

Nope. Not for me. Politicians SHOULD (granted they don't, but should) run on their own belief systems, convictions and ideas....and if people vote them in, that should be their vessel for going to the capital and voting said belief systems, convictions and ideas....so the fact that he got voted in, in my opinion, should be enough for him to vote for those bills that he wants to see pass. The fact that he said what he said is more proof that the guy is just another political game playing tool.

Eff him.

[Tee09]

So when the Vikings leave, do you guys become Packer fans, Bear fans, Chiefs fans, or give the Gophers the love they have been missing since the Vikings came and destroyed a national powerhouse?

[ScoobyDoo]

Gophers all the way. I will boycott the NFL (except maybe the SuperBowl) entirely.

[Greyeagle]

[JWG]

So when the Vikings leave, do you guys become Packer fans, Bear fans, Chiefs fans, or give the Gophers the love they have been missing since the Vikings came and destroyed a national powerhouse?

Well, nothing changes for me. I enjoy Saturdays on campus and Sundays swearing at DirecTV for taking it to me so I can watch the Bears.

[jallengarry]

"I want to see it pass. I won't vote for it, but want it to pass."

What in the hell is this BS?!?!?!? He wants it to pass but won't vote for it? Are you F'n kidding me?

That interview was freakin' incredible. I can't believe he came on and said the s**t he said with a straight face.

[Armadillo]

So when the Vikings leave, do you guys become Packer fans, Bear fans, Chiefs fans, or give the Gophers the love they have been missing since the Vikings came and destroyed a national powerhouse?

Gophers first, middle, and last.

[gopherguy13]

So when the Vikings leave, do you guys become Packer fans, Bear fans, Chiefs fans, or give the Gophers the love they have been missing since the Vikings came and destroyed a national powerhouse?

I would become a fantasy football fan. Cheering for my fantasy players' teams!

[gator]

So when the Vikings leave, do you guys become Packer fans, Bear fans, Chiefs fans, or give the Gophers the love they have been missing since the Vikings came and destroyed a national powerhouse?

I'll still cheer for the Gophers on Saturdays. And I'll cheer for my second favorite NFL team, Cincinnati, until 10 years from now when we drop 3 times the $$$ for a new team.

[sec 16 row16 seat 16 17]

the roar has been restored.

[Slap Shot]

So when the Vikings leave, do you guys become Packer fans...

With all due respect...

[Tee09]

So when the Vikings leave, do you guys become Packer fans...

With all due respect...

Some will. It doesn't make sense to me, but it'll happen.

[Bladepuller]

This thing could just blow up.
I can't wait to see how my room temp IQ, gun totin', skirt chasin', racino lovin' GOP Rep. Tommy Hackbarth tries to spin this out here in northern Anoka Co., if it doesn't pass & the Viking leave.
They (DFL) are looking for a candidate to run against him this fall. Too bad the reprecussions of a no vote won't happen for a year or so. It would make thing very interesting if they could find a bullets & sinkers guy who can truthfully say "Gun control is putting them all in the 10 ring."
Dumb, dumb, dumb. DFL leadership (Dayton) has positioned themselves behind it (stadium) and Zellers is going to be seen as "Oz, The All Seeing & All Knowing," man behind the curtain. (And when the curtain goes up the Vikings are gone)
(edits)

[Beauner]

For those with the time and patience to listen to this ing moron talk about the stadium...
Zellers with Barreiro
What a complete and utter douche.

[monty]

My opinion of Zellers comments; If the state is going to raise $400 million then there are better ways of spending it then lining the pockets of millionaires and billionaires.

In my opinion pro sports are effed up. There are limited number of owners in sports, arenas and stadiums are focal point for them to make money. So instead of each league making sure that there are venues in each city, the go to the city/state ask for the money. Where does all the money go from ticket sales and broadcast rights? Into the pockets of the players and owners, and into the venue that allows them make that money.

Its like the owner of a luxury apartment building that is 30 years old asking the state to pay pay for 1/3rd of a new building. The new building would have all the bells ans whistles and the owner would be able to make more money to compete with the newer buildings in town.

We just need to face that the Vikings have been owned by 3 different groups in the last 30 years and not a one of them took any of the profits and made sure that they would have a stadium they could compete with. Now the current owners are asking for money from the state and city the previous owners used to line their pockets.

[SkiUMahLaw]

My opinion of Zellers comments; If the state is going to raise $400 million then there are better ways of spending it then lining the pockets of millionaires and billionaires.

In my opinion pro sports are effed up. There are limited number of owners in sports, arenas and stadiums are focal point for them to make money. So instead of each league making sure that there are venues in each city, the go to the city/state ask for the money. Where does all the money go from ticket sales and broadcast rights? Into the pockets of the players and owners, and into the venue that allows them make that money.

Its like the owner of a luxury apartment building that is 30 years old asking the state to pay pay for 1/3rd of a new building. The new building would have all the bells ans whistles and the owner would be able to make more money to compete with the newer buildings in town.

We just need to face that the Vikings have been owned by 3 different groups in the last 30 years and not a one of them took any of the profits and made sure that they would have a stadium they could compete with. Now the current owners are asking for money from the state and city the previous owners used to line their pockets.

Nobody is disputing that there are better ways to spend $400 million. Your points are extremely well taken.

But unfortunately unrealistic.

The fact of the matter is that billionaires didn't become billionaires by spending their own money; rather, they find ways to spend others' money and save their own. Furthermore, the reason they do this is because they can. Cities want to be high profile and attract attention, and you do that by having high profile attractions that get national visibility. The NFL is among the most visible.

So we can sit here and prove a point and win that war of principle, and in return start losing major league sports teams and be the cold Omaha (or East Sioux Falls), or we can hang with the big boys and be a first class metropolitan area. But to do the latter, you actually have to play the big boy games, which costs something.

[Bertogliat]

They are going to vote this down because they don't want Dayton to win. They wanted to use the stadium to get what they want in other tax packages and since they can't get everything they want (lately it has been an all or nothing debate, no comprimise) they aren't going to let Dayton get the stadium. This has nothing to do with what is good for the state. We are all going to pay for it by losing a 3rd Major Team.

I was maybe the biggest North Stars fan in the World until Norm Green came in and changed the jerseys and left for Dallas. When they left I changed my focus to the Gophers. When the Wild came back I was excited but never came to love them like I did the Stars. I suspect the same will be true when the Vikes leave. Gopher Football all the way.

And I will vote out my house rep because he is against a stadium no matter the finincial source. He is a REBUMBLICAN. I am too. He needs to go.

[gopher6]

"I want to see it pass. I won't vote for it, but want it to pass."

What in the hell is this BS?!?!?!? He wants it to pass but won't vote for it? Are you F'n kidding me?

I heard it yesterday perfect example of how xxxxed up our state government is

[gopher wes]

So when the Vikings leave, do you guys become Packer fans...

With all due respect...

Some will. It doesn't make sense to me, but it'll happen.

That makes two of us that don't understand it. But you know it will happen if the Queens leave.

[Handyman]

My opinion of Zellers comments; If the state is going to raise $400 million then there are better ways of spending it then lining the pockets of millionaires and billionaires.

Yeah the problem is that Zellers pretty much admitted in the Barriero interview that if the Governor compromised on the tax issue the GOP is pushing he could get the votes. (it is at the end of the interview) People like to pretend this is about principles...it isnt. It is about serving your agenda, and that is it. Sure they like to wrap themselves up in the "We need to put money towards infrastructure and schools" rhetoric but they dont believe it. Trust me switch the parties in power and see what happens...all of a sudden the GOP would be all for supporting local businesses by keeping the Vikes and the DFL would be fighting to use the money for better means. It is all a game to them...

We will see how vocal Vikings fans are...if there is no tax compromise but law makers feel pressure from the fans a deal will be struck before the vote on Monday. No one wants to have their vote recorded if they dont have to. I dare the Legislature to vote it down...they have slow played this for a decade figuring there was never a chance they would leave. Now here we are might as well see it through.

[Gopherguy05]

My opinion of Zellers comments; If the state is going to raise $400 million then there are better ways of spending it then lining the pockets of millionaires and billionaires.

Yeah the problem is that Zellers pretty much admitted in the Barriero interview that if the Governor compromised on the tax issue the GOP is pushing he could get the votes. (it is at the end of the interview) People like to pretend this is about principles...it isnt. It is about serving your agenda, and that is it. Sure they like to wrap themselves up in the "We need to put money towards infrastructure and schools" rhetoric but they dont believe it. Trust me switch the parties in power and see what happens...all of a sudden the GOP would be all for supporting local businesses by keeping the Vikes and the DFL would be fighting to use the money for better means. It is all a game to them...

We will see how vocal Vikings fans are...if there is no tax compromise but law makers feel pressure from the fans a deal will be struck before the vote on Monday. No one wants to have their vote recorded if they dont have to. I dare the Legislature to vote it down...they have slow played this for a decade figuring there was never a chance they would leave. Now here we are might as well see it through.

Dayton has now vetoed the Tax bill...so we shall see if the REBUMBLICAN retaliation now occurs....

[Handyman]

I hope the Representatives and senators dont plan to sleep much this weekend because things are gonna get ugly...

And to answer the earlier question...my interest in the NFL dies the second the Vikes leave. I barely care now outside of the Vikes if they are gone my Sundays become wide open!

[beersong]

It would be kind of nice to enjoy beautiful Sundays in September and October again instead of being holed up in the man cave.

[greydogg]

So when the Vikings leave, do you guys become Packer fans, Bear fans, Chiefs fans, or give the Gophers the love they have been missing since the Vikings came and destroyed a national powerhouse?

Chefs all the way

[gopher6]

So when the Vikings leave, do you guys become Packer fans, Bear fans, Chiefs fans, or give the Gophers the love they have been missing since the Vikings came and destroyed a national powerhouse?

Chefs all the way

RAIDERS!!!!

[gopheritall]

RAIDERS!!!!

gross.

[dxmnkd316]

I'm going to laugh my ass off when this team leaves. Oh well.

[Tee09]

I'm going to laugh my ass off when this team leaves. Oh well.

If the Gophers go to the Rose Bowl the year after the vikes leave, is that sufficient to confirm the theory?

[dxmnkd316]

I'm going to laugh my ass off when this team leaves. Oh well.

If the Gophers go to the Rose Bowl the year after the vikes leave, is that sufficient to confirm the theory?

Absolutely.

[sec 16 row16 seat 16 17]

when zellers was a kid he probably had his lunch money taken from him.

[dryfly]

"I want to see it pass. I won't vote for it, but want it to pass."

What in the hell is this BS?!?!?!? He wants it to pass but won't vote for it? Are you F'n kidding me?

You don't have to be the sharpest tool in the shed to be in the state house - just a tool.

[Chris83]

I've followed the Vikings my entire life and would be sad to see them leave. That said, when the stadium bill is voted down tomorrow and the team leaves within the next 12-15 months it WILL be a relief to be done with all this.

I suggest that a rider be attached to a "NO" vote on the stadium which states IF the Vikings DO leave, no bill proposing funding for a NFL stadium can be introduced for a minimum of 20 years. Ridiculous of course, but I don't want this coming up again in 5 years for an expansion team or trying to get another franchise to relocate here.

[dryfly]

I've followed the Vikings my entire life and would be sad to see them leave. That said, when the stadium bill is voted down tomorrow and the team leaves within the next 12-15 months it WILL be a relief to be done with all this.

I suggest that a rider be attached to a "NO" vote on the stadium which states IF the Vikings DO leave, no bill proposing funding for a NFL stadium can be introduced for a minimum of 20 years. Ridiculous of course, but I don't want this coming up again in 5 years for an expansion team or trying to get another franchise to relocate here.

That makes way too much sense. If you run for office I will vote for you.

[ex_goldy]

Sad but I agree that it won't pass and it looks like it's done this year. I didn't think this was the final push, next year they could try and push it through again, or isn't that an option? How do people know there won't be a next year?
If it becomes partisan next year it's going to get killed. Once that happened you knew it was done.

[Beauner]

How do people know there won't be a next year?

I think the Wilfs and the NFL have basically said as much. The NFL is of the opinion (as am I) that the state has treated the Vikings as something of a burden rather than a commodity and privilege during the stadium push, which the pisses off the league.
I believe they want the Vikings to stay in MN as we are one of the more popular franchises in the league (mostly because there is nobody directly west, north or south of us until 2-3 states away), we haven't had a TV blackout in something close to/more than a decade IIRC (can't remember the exact date), the team has been generally good--3 NFC championship game trips in 14 years when the NFC has had something like 10 different teams play in the NFC title game since the 1998 NFC title game (Eagles, Packers, Giants, Panthers, Rams, Falcons, Buccaneers, Seahawks, Bears, 49ers) and only the Giants and Eagles have been there as many or more times than the Vikings (Giants 3 times, Eagles 5).

I believe that if the stadium deal doesn't get done or a promise to pass the bill during a special session right after the upcoming election (or something like that) the Wilfs are going to sell and the buyer is moving them out of town.

[monty]

If it gets voted down to day, it will because of legislators that are up for reelection this fall. After the election there will be special session to vote on a stadium bill. The special session want happen to after the team and NFL hold a press conference stating that 2012 is the Vikings last year in Minnesota.

[dryfly]

If it gets voted down to day, it will because of legislators that are up for reelection this fall. After the election there will be special session to vote on a stadium bill. The special session want happen to after the team and NFL hold a press conference stating that 2012 is the Vikings last year in Minnesota.

Depends on the outcome of the election - who wins the statehouse and by how much. Not saying one party or the other matters that much as the individuals involved. Lame ducks don't always play nice if they think the issue they are brought back to 'fix' is the one that got them booted out in the first place. If so they might just let the victors get the spoils and kick it into the next session.

On the other hand - if a lot of them win via close call they might want this issue behind them and fast, before the next session starts. Get something done now - so they have a full two years to cloud the story.

Really hard to say how it will shake out - and of course it also depends on where the Vikings are 'allowed' to go. If LA is still on the table then its hard to say no - I think Ziggy'd be gone already if that were an option now. I know I would.

[fightclub30]

is anyone else watching or listening???

Besides noticing we have a bunch of morons for our leaders, Zellers and 1 or 2 others have refused to vote on any amendments. Isnt this what we pay these people to do? Vote and represent us?

Also many times members talk to other members and "Sorry, I missed the question"... I wish I couldve gotten away with that in school.

[trixR4kids]

Yeah I'm actually watching because I don't feel like packing my stuff (got a new job in MN). Some of these people have good intentions but their plans are not very well thought out. Having local stations cover the Vikings games so everyone can watch sounds great until you realize that MNF, SNF, Thursday games etc aren't going to be on local networks.

[Hobey Baker]

Vikings waiving Longwell???

[Chris83]

Yeah I'm actually watching because I don't feel like packing my stuff (got a new job in MN). Some of these people have good intentions but their plans are not very well thought out. Having local stations cover the Vikings games so everyone can watch sounds great until you realize that MNF, SNF, Thursday games etc aren't going to be on local networks.

I "think" all games on ESPN or NFL Network are shown by a local station.

[Gopherguy05]

Vikings Bill Passes the House 73-59.

[The Rube]

Passed. I told all y'all. I never had a doubt.

[Armadillo]

I feel a strange mixture of happiness and kitten-strangling anger.

[Kelor]

I feel a strange mixture of happiness and kitten-strangling anger.

Well put. My happiness is out of pure selfishness, and I'm not very proud of it.

[Armadillo]

I feel a strange mixture of happiness and kitten-strangling anger.

Well put. My happiness is out of pure selfishness, and I'm not very proud of it.

I know exactly what you mean. I'm feeling it too.

[Tee09]

Boo. I wanted to see the Gophers in the Rose Bowl in my lifetime.

[Armadillo]

Boo. I wanted to see the Gophers in the Rose Bowl in my lifetime.

It could still happ...BWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*wipes tears* I couldn't even finish the sentence...

[Tee09]

Boo. I wanted to see the Gophers in the Rose Bowl in my lifetime.

It could still happ...BWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*wipes tears* I couldn't even finish the sentence...

Maybe we will play a home-and-home with UCLA.

[Superstar]

Boo. I wanted to see the Gophers in the Rose Bowl in my lifetime.

I'm planning on going to Hawaii to ring in the 2014 new year...so I'm pretty sure, the year I already have plans for New Year's will be the year the Gophers go to the Rose Bowl.

[gopher6]

Vikings waiving Longwell???

just like the Twinkies and Wild, cutting or letting free agents go to save money

[Chris83]

Perhaps a dumb question: the bill passes in the House, but with the Vikings paying more. Even if it passes in the Senate as well, can't the Vikings simply say "No" to their increased portion and there is still no stadium?

[gopher wes]

That is kinda my question as well as where do we go from here? I have zero knowledge of the inner workings of this sort of stuff. I just get the feeling that this is far from over.

[Zwak]

Perhaps a dumb question: the bill passes in the House, but with the Vikings paying more. Even if it passes in the Senate as well, can't the Vikings simply say "No" to their increased portion and there is still no stadium?

Yes...but then they become more of the "bad guy" then the politicians. They already said this morning that the plan that passed is not workable but one would expect them to say that before the senate works on their bill. They don't want to give the senate any idea about raising the Vikes share.

[ex_goldy]

Senate is REBUMBLICAN controlled and the REBUMBLICAN bill was dropped in the house. We'll see what the senate does. The house members might already know it has no chance in the REBUMBLICAN controlled senate. Now the Senate gets the blame if it doesn't pass or they mangle it, change it so much that the Wilf's say no thanks. The house will look like they were heros and the senate will be the bad guys that killed it. This is a hot potato. You don't want to be the one to pin the blame on, politically you're career would be done. Maybe they'll hold their nose and pass it and blame it on the house saying they want nothing to do with it, it's the Democrats bill (house), it's not ours and we're shoving it over to the governor. I'm not sure how much the Senate can change what they have, if every part is up for changes or if they have to take the whole bill and ammend to it, not sure the procedures. Something this huge, loaded with money, usually gets some ammended items like a new duck farm or history museum in some senator's constituents area. It's usually buried in the bill but today it would be dug up and hauled out for the press.

I'm very optimistic, if I were Wilf I would ask for more than I want and know I won't get it all. He would look like a hero if he accepts the bill and the cuts they made. Good bargaining. I don't think he wants to pay more than half and it's right on the edge, it was $427 million the Vikes paid, now it's $532 mill according to the Startrib.

[sagard]

Perhaps a dumb question: the bill passes in the House, but with the Vikings paying more. Even if it passes in the Senate as well, can't the Vikings simply say "No" to their increased portion and there is still no stadium?

Yep. That is is the best we can hope for. Either the Senate shoots it down, or the Vikes walk away from $450M.

Truthfully if they come up with a plan that creates a tax to pay for it, eliminates any ongoing maintenance costs to the state/city, and defines all overruns to be on the Vikes. I'd give credit to the legislature.

[Handyman]

That is kinda my question as well as where do we go from here? I have zero knowledge of the inner workings of this sort of stuff. I just get the feeling that this is far from over.

Next the Senate will vote on its bill. if it passes it goes to conference committee where they put together a joint bill which is then voted on by everyone. (I think)

BTW guys, it isnt just the team that is not supporting the increase in team payout and some of the other points...the NFL has said if these numbers become the final numbers it will not go well. Right now the Legislature is trying to pull what the Twins did to Torii Hunter. The Twins knew what he wanted but didnt want to pay him so they offered him a terrible contract they knew he would turn down so they wouldnt be the bad guys. (problem was he went public the day he signed with the Angels) If the Senate passes a bill similar to what the House did despite the NFL and the team saying it wont work it is just their way to pass the buck.

[Zwak]

That is kinda my question as well as where do we go from here? I have zero knowledge of the inner workings of this sort of stuff. I just get the feeling that this is far from over.

Next the Senate will vote on its bill. if it passes it goes to conference committee where they put together a joint bill which is then voted on by everyone. (I think)

Correct. 6 members of house and 6 members on senate are on the committee and they hash out a joint bill. Once this joint bill is created, no more amendments can be added so the voting process is much quicker.

[Cardinal]

That is kinda my question as well as where do we go from here? I have zero knowledge of the inner workings of this sort of stuff. I just get the feeling that this is far from over.

Next the Senate will vote on its bill. if it passes it goes to conference committee where they put together a joint bill which is then voted on by everyone. (I think)

Correct. 6 members of house and 6 members on senate are on the committee and they hash out a joint bill. Once this joint bill is created, no more amendments can be added so the voting process is much quicker.

They can all give their speeches still, so while you're correct in that it should be quicker, not the express lane either.

[Zwak]

So lets say some team eventually goes to LA. What other other cities would be considered for possible future moves?

[Armadillo]

So lets say some team eventually goes to LA. What other other cities would be considered for possible future moves?

I don't know of any cities off the top of my head in the United States that could support an NFL franchise due to either low corporate support or interest. If Buffalo goes to Toronto as many think they will, then I suppose that might open up a couple of Canadian markets, like Montreal or Vancouver, but there's the CFL to contend with. Maybe expansion into Europe/Latin America?

[Handyman]

San Antonio has been thrown around and while it is not as sexy as LA i think they could find a way to do it if they have the right owner.

There are lots of teams looking to move at the moment and even if LA takes two of them (they wont) that still means the others will have to find spots. My guess is we wont know until it is almost a done deal.

[SkiUMahLaw]

So lets say some team eventually goes to LA. What other other cities would be considered for possible future moves?

Orlando and Portland would be two, I would think. Orlando is a separate TV market from Tampa, and, as Tampa-St. Pete is the 13th largest TV market in the country and Orlando is the 19th, means there should be sufficient support there to support a team. Portland is a larger TV market than Indy, Baltimore, Charlotte and San Diego. Orlando has cash from some mouse operation; Portland is a growing city with tech money.

Not that I think they would, but Sacramento would also be larger than Indy, Baltimore, Charlotte and San Diego. But a third team in northern California would probably not fly.

What about Vegas?

[Beauner]

Vikings waiving Longwell???

just like the Twinkies and Wild, cutting or letting free agents go to save money

Or Longwell is getting old and his leg grows weaker every season. Last year he struggled to make anything outside of 45 yards, and when you're playing games outdoor @ Lambeau and Soldier Field where it tends to be colder/windier having a weak leg is not good.
Plus we drafted a kicker, which usually means the team wants him to be on the team ASAP.

[Tee09]

So lets say some team eventually goes to LA. What other other cities would be considered for possible future moves?

Orlando and Portland would be two, I would think. Orlando is a separate TV market from Tampa, and, as Tampa-St. Pete is the 13th largest TV market in the country and Orlando is the 19th, means there should be sufficient support there to support a team. Portland is a larger TV market than Indy, Baltimore, Charlotte and San Diego. Orlando has cash from some mouse operation; Portland is a growing city with tech money.

Not that I think they would, but Sacramento would also be larger than Indy, Baltimore, Charlotte and San Diego. But a third team in northern California would probably not fly.

What about Vegas?

Would the stadium have a sports book?