Vikings 2012 Season: Gentlemen, We Are Hosed

by **Handyman** » Fri 4/27/12 10:16 am

I hate Mel Kiper...

I wouldnt exactly say he was ball hawkish...the dude had 7 interceptions in 4 years. (38 games started) Sounds to me like he will fit in perfectly with this squad.

(to be fair, they all came his senior year so that is one great year)

edit: his tackling stats intrigue me since my guess is they plan to play him in the strong safety roll.

by **dryfly** » Fri 4/27/12 10:21 am

Gopherguy05 wrote:
Got to love the idiots in this state. And before someone tried to paint this the wrong way, I'm actually pro-stadium if we can do it using racino or some other similar means....

Can't be done. There is no 'other means'. Not really.

I'd be pro-Lamborghini if I could get it done using 'some other means'. The real hang up isn't some potential gambling revenue or not - its what do the sponsors pledge to use to back it all up when [not if] that falls short either partially or catastrophically.

Its a lot like the Vegas monorail - everyone was for it so long as they didn't have to back the bonds if revenue fell short - it did - and the bond holders got screwed royally because there was no back up. Here they know they can't even think of getting decent rates on a bond issuance unless the state backs up the payment [ultimately takes responsibility by pledging tax revenue as worst case payer]. You can have all kinds of 'revenue sources' in between but at days end the state is the only 'adult' with deep enough pockets to sign off as payer of last resort.

I doubt the bond market would even trust Ziggy and all his fortunes to back it up. Developers like him are masters of 'strategic default' and very hard to tie down. Meanwhile the stadium is here, state is here, tax payers are here - see the connection?

I suppose he could [in theory] pay in cash - but I doubt he has anywhere near that much liquid. He has assets but would require some gnarly liquidations [huge tax ramifications] or borrowing against his assets [as collateral] and then as above - who back stops the collateral should it falter [it often does over the lifetime of a typical stadium - see recent RE collapse and what happened to Zell's promises - he just walked away].

Its one fugly issue but really not that difficult to parse. If we want the stadium - ultimately the taxpayers will be the ultimate last inline payer no matter how the deals are structured and sold. How much and how often the state might get dinged is debatable but the fact remains the same - for it to be built the state and taxpayers will have a lot of skin in the game. Or it won't get built.

by **dryfly** » Fri 4/27/12 10:30 am

rowshkex wrote:The dome is just fine people. It's not NICE, but it sure is fine.

You aren't being consulted ...

by **JWG** » Fri 4/27/12 11:00 am

Getting everying in place to be competitive in LA apparently...

by **rowshkex** » Fri 4/27/12 1:55 pm

dryfly wrote:
rowshkex wrote:The dome is just fine people. It's not NICE, but it sure is fine.

You aren't being consulted ...

by **Aldy** » Fri 4/27/12 2:18 pm

I was at the Vikings draft party last night with my brother and son and we took a tour of the Vikings locker room. I was surprised how small it is and very plain. I've seen nicer locker rooms in some of the newer high schools. The Gophers football locker room is the Taj Mahal compared to the Vikings. The room for the head coach is the size of a large closet with just enough room for a small desk and locker. There are 54 lockers and during pre-season games some of the players have to double up. I guess the visitor's locker room is even smaller.

I was very pleased with how the first round went. My son mentioned to me that after we drafted Kalil that we should trade a 2nd and 4th round pick and move up to the 1st round to pick up the safety from ND - and two hours later it happened!!

Looking forward to the rest of the draft.

by **gopheritall** » Fri 4/27/12 3:29 pm

Aldy wrote:I was at the Vikings draft party last night with my brother and son and we took a tour of the Vikings locker room. I was surprised how small it is and very plain. I've seen nicer locker rooms in some of the newer high schools. The Gophers football locker room is the Taj Mahal compared to the Vikings. The room for the head coach is the size of a large closet with just enough room for a small desk and locker. There are 54 lockers and during pre-season games some of the players have to double up. I guess the visitor's locker room is even smaller.

I was very pleased with how the first round went. My son mentioned to me that after we drafted Kalil that we should trade a 2nd and 4th round pick and move up to the 1st round to pick up the safety from ND - and two hours later it happened!!

Looking forward to the rest of the draft.

If your son were to play the lottery, what numbers would he pick?

by **ScoobyDoo** » Fri 4/27/12 3:36 pm

The LA Vikings drafted very well. I was thinking Spielman must have been locked in a closet or something.

by **Aldy** » Fri 4/27/12 4:27 pm

gopheritall wrote:
Aldy wrote:I was at the Vikings draft party last night with my brother and son and we took a tour of the Vikings locker room. I was surprised how small it is and very plain. I've seen nicer locker rooms in some of the newer high schools. The Gophers football locker room is the Taj Mahal compared to the Vikings. The room for the head coach is the size of a large closet with just enough room for a small desk and locker. There are 54 lockers and during pre-season games some of the players have to double up. I guess the visitor's locker room is even smaller.

I was very pleased with how the first round went. My son mentioned to me that after we drafted Kalil that we should trade a 2nd and 4th round pick and move up to the 1st round to pick up the safety from ND - and two hours later it happened!!

Looking forward to the rest of the draft.

If your son were to play the lottery, what numbers would he pick?

I'll have to consult him when the lottery jackpot reaches a nice figure!!

by **gopherguy13** » Fri 4/27/12 4:58 pm

Stoked with that first round. Especially the trade with CLE.

We got Kalil (the guy we wanted all along) plus 3 free draft picks. If even one of those guys turns out to be a starter it's an awesome deal!

by **Bushwood Gopher** » Fri 4/27/12 6:23 pm

Courtney Upshaw at #35 is one of the biggest steals of the draft so far. Was the guy I was hoping the Vikings would get with their 2nd pick.

by **WPoSforever** » Fri 4/27/12 6:28 pm

Anyone have any idea why Stephen Hill is falling so far. Would really like to see the Vikings trade up and take him.

by **Beauner** » Fri 4/27/12 6:51 pm

WPoSforever wrote:Anyone have any idea why Stephen Hill is falling so far. Would really like to see the Vikings trade up and take him.

Probably because he only got like 50 passes career at GTech. He played in a system where it's deep-ball or nothing so he probably has some learning to do with regards to route-running etc.
He's incredibly fast but he's probably pretty raw in the eyes of many teams. IMHO, he should have been drafted higher. He's got good hands and incredible size/speed but he's raw.

by **Beauner** » Fri 4/27/12 7:04 pm

Bears took Alshon Jeffery... Vikings secondary now will have to stop 2 big WRs in Chicago, Calvin Johnson and Titus Young in Detroit, and Aaron Rodgers et. al. in GB.
Yikes.

by **sec 16 row16 seat 16 17** » Fri 4/27/12 7:06 pm

good luck.

by **WPoSforever** » Fri 4/27/12 7:35 pm

Beauner wrote:
WPoSforever wrote:Anyone have any idea why Stephen Hill is falling so far. Would really like to see the Vikings trade up and take him.

Probably because he only got like 50 passes career at GTech. He played in a system where it's deep-ball or nothing so he probably has some learning to do with regards to route-running etc.
He's incredibly fast but he's probably pretty raw in the eyes of many teams. IMHO, he should have been drafted higher. He's got good hands and incredible size/speed but he's raw.

I never saw him play, but after looking at his combine stats I was surprised he fell that far and I thought he was the kind of receiver that the Vikings could use. Tall, fast and can jump.

by **JWG** » Fri 4/27/12 8:31 pm

Beauner wrote:Bears took Alshon Jeffery... Vikings secondary now will have to stop 2 big WRs in Chicago, Calvin Johnson and Titus Young in Detroit, and Aaron Rodgers et. al. in GB.
Yikes.

Only for one season, then they're off to the NFC West...

by **Chris83** » Fri 4/27/12 9:54 pm

Vikings get CB Josh Robinson from Central Florida with the 66th pick. Needs to develop but he has incredible speed and a lot of upside.

by **Tee09** » Fri 4/27/12 10:02 pm

Chris83 wrote:Vikings get CB Josh Robinson from Central Florida with the 66th pick. Needs to develop but he has incredible speed and a lot of upside.

Is he a big (woman) hitter, or is he more of a cover guy?

by **rowshkex** » Fri 4/27/12 10:46 pm

I'm a fan of this Luck-Fleener combo. Hopefully it's the beginning of the rebuilding process in Indy.

by **Chris83** » Sat 4/28/12 8:48 am

Tee09 wrote:
Chris83 wrote:Vikings get CB Josh Robinson from Central Florida with the 66th pick. Needs to develop but he has incredible speed and a lot of upside.

Is he a big (woman) hitter, or is he more of a cover guy?

I don't know anything about the reputation of this website, but it seems to have a pretty good summation of Robinson:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Is- ... spect.html

by **team22tank** » Sat 4/28/12 5:02 pm

Where do people think Charlie Johnson will play? Left Guard?

by **Five-HoleFrenzy** » Sun 4/29/12 7:53 am

team22tank wrote:Where do people think Charlie Johnson will play? Left Guard?

They will try to plug him in there.

For as much as anyone really knows about how a draft turns out right after it occurs, The Vikings appear to have done a credible job of running this years draft. I don't think this draft is a fix all but if the Vikings come away with two starters and add depth to areas of need like the secondary and wide receiver they will trend upward, which sadly in the NFC North may still be last place.

by **Slap Shot** » Sun 4/29/12 11:07 am

I agree - the Vikings weren't going to be able to fix all their problems with one draft. imho what will determine how successful this draft is not necessarily how many starters they get out of it, but how many players will be good enough to hang around, provide depth, play special teams, build a locker room and if it will put them in position to be just one more additional draft and FA season away from becoming a top team. They gained two picks for next year which hopefully can be used to package a move for a splash rather than simply adding numbers. I'm no way interested enough to pretend I can micro-analyze their draft, but at first glance seems the best of the past 3 years.

by **Bushwood Gopher** » Sun 4/29/12 5:42 pm

Like others have said, I'm not going to break down every pick of theirs either because I'm not qualified to do so, but just about everybody that gets paid to has graded this Vikings draft very high. In my opinion, Harrison Smith will be the key to it. They need him to not just fill a hole but be a really good safety.

by **Handyman** » Sun 4/29/12 6:12 pm

Draft experts...I put them aboout on par with the USCHO poll

by **Bash Brother** » Sun 4/29/12 6:13 pm

Handyman wrote:Draft experts...I put them aboout on par with the USCHO poll

What did the USCHO Poll say about Ryan Leaf?

by **dxmnkd316** » Sun 4/29/12 9:06 pm

Best post in the history of the internet? I'm thinking yes.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/sho ... hp?t=52641

by **psych** » Mon 4/30/12 8:36 am

dxmnkd316 wrote:Best post in the history of the internet? I'm thinking yes.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/sho ... hp?t=52641

Jennifer Love Hewitt wants to give that guy a happy ending.

by **sunbone** » Mon 4/30/12 3:28 pm

Overall I like what Spielman did this draft. Maybe having one guy in charge makes a difference instead of doing it by cluster, I mean committee. I think Kalil was absolutely the right pick at 3, and to move down one spot to get him and something extra was very smart. The one thing I don't get is taking a kicker in the 6th round, when you just signed Longwell to an extension. Not sure that the thinking was there.

by **gopher6** » Mon 4/30/12 3:34 pm

we are so screwed with our state representatives
http://kstp.com/news/stories/S2601305.shtml?cat=1 :chainsaw:

by **Beauner** » Mon 4/30/12 9:15 pm

sunbone wrote:Overall I like what Spielman did this draft. Maybe having one guy in charge makes a difference instead of doing it by cluster, I mean committee. I think Kalil was absolutely the right pick at 3, and to move down one spot to get him and something extra was very smart. The one thing I don't get is taking a kicker in the 6th round, when you just signed Longwell to an extension. Not sure that the thinking was there.

I think the team was disappointed with Longwell's ability to kick from 45+ last year. Basically anything outside the 30 would mean 0 points it felt like.

by **murrster** » Mon 4/30/12 9:40 pm

Beauner wrote:
sunbone wrote:Overall I like what Spielman did this draft. Maybe having one guy in charge makes a difference instead of doing it by cluster, I mean committee. I think Kalil was absolutely the right pick at 3, and to move down one spot to get him and something extra was very smart. The one thing I don't get is taking a kicker in the 6th round, when you just signed Longwell to an extension. Not sure that the thinking was there.

I think the team was disappointed with Longwell's ability to kick from 45+ last year. Basically anything outside the 30 would mean 0 points it felt like.

This kicker does nothing to remedy that, though. Check out his stats from beyond 40 yards...or just his stats in general. It's almost like his dad is friends with Spielman or something.

by **The Rube** » Mon 4/30/12 11:09 pm

dxmnkd316 wrote:Best post in the history of the internet? I'm thinking yes.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/sho ... hp?t=52641

by **Tee09** » Mon 4/30/12 11:25 pm

psych wrote:
dxmnkd316 wrote:Best post in the history of the internet? I'm thinking yes.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/sho ... hp?t=52641

Jennifer Love Hewitt wants to give that guy a happy ending.

Maybe if she washes her hair first. It looks greasy.

by **Armadillo** » Tue 5/01/12 3:58 pm

Tee09 wrote:
psych wrote:
dxmnkd316 wrote:Best post in the history of the internet? I'm thinking yes.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/sho ... hp?t=52641

Jennifer Love Hewitt wants to give that guy a happy ending.

Maybe if she washes her hair first. It looks greasy.

That's like complaining that your porterhouse has one too many grains of pepper on it.

by **Hobey Baker** » Tue 5/01/12 3:59 pm

Rumor has it that the Republicans want to build a roof ready stadium. MPLS says they are out of the mix if that is the case. Should we be past that issue by now????

Our legislators seriously need to pull their heads out of their asses and get this thing done. Instead of finding ways to derail or play politics and try to stop this thing, how about using all the possiblities to actually get this thing done.

by **gopher6** » Tue 5/01/12 4:10 pm

Hobey Baker wrote:Rumor has it that the Republicans want to build a roof ready stadium. MPLS says they are out of the mix if that is the case. Should we be past that issue by now????

Our legislators seriously need to pull their heads out of their asses and get this thing done. Instead of finding ways to derail or play politics and try to stop this thing, how about using all the possiblities to actually get this thing done.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/sta ... 93115.html :ahhh:

by **ScoobyDoo** » Tue 5/01/12 4:13 pm

Hobey Baker wrote:Rumor has it that the Republicans want to build a roof ready stadium. MPLS says they are out of the mix if that is the case. Should we be past that issue by now????

Our legislators seriously need to pull their heads out of their asses and get this thing done. Instead of finding ways to derail or play politics and try to stop this thing, how about using all the possiblities to actually get this thing done.

LOL. This is one seriously dysfunctional state.

by **SkiUMahLaw** » Tue 5/01/12 4:25 pm

ScoobyDoo wrote:
Hobey Baker wrote:Rumor has it that the Republicans want to build a roof ready stadium. MPLS says they are out of the mix if that is the case. Should we be past that issue by now????

Our legislators seriously need to pull their heads out of their asses and get this thing done. Instead of finding ways to derail or play politics and try to stop this thing, how about using all the possiblities to actually get this thing done.

LOL. This is one seriously dysfunctional state.

Now the GOP has, despite wanting to adjourn yesterday and having this issue being discussed as a major issue for, oh, about a year, come up with the idea of putting infrastructure only amounts in the bonding bill, which would require 60% approval to pass-- and just came up with this idea today, not mentioning it to the Governor or the Vikings at all until, oh, an hour ago.

Clearly, they're trying to pass the buck to the DFL, despite the fact that 1.) the amount in the bonding bill won't come close to the amount negotiated and bandied about for about two months and has passed committee, and 2.) the Vikings haven't promised to build a stadium for that amount, which would most certainly require them to shoulder all the cost for the stadium.

Unfortunately, it appears clear that the GOP doesn't have the votes to pass the bill that has made it through committee, so they are trying anything to avoid the blame when this thing blows up.

by **Hobey Baker** » Tue 5/01/12 4:51 pm

How can they keep turning a blind eye to gambling monies???? It is so easy.

We have gambling .. it exists. Racino and a couple of state run casinos.

by **Slap Shot** » Tue 5/01/12 4:55 pm

Hobey Baker wrote:How can they keep turning a blind eye to gambling monies???? It is so easy.

We have gambling .. it exists. Racino and a couple of state run casinos.

I thought I heard today that horse tracks will be able to expand card tables? But no, Parise forbid the state expand gambling opportunities.

by **Hobey Baker** » Tue 5/01/12 4:57 pm

Slap Shot wrote:
Hobey Baker wrote:How can they keep turning a blind eye to gambling monies???? It is so easy.

We have gambling .. it exists. Racino and a couple of state run casinos.

I thought I heard today that horse tracks will be able to expand card tables? But no, Parise forbid the state expand gambling opportunities.

They are to attract horses and increase the purses so horse racing doesnt die in the state ..

by **gopherguy13** » Tue 5/01/12 6:45 pm

dxmnkd316 wrote:Best post in the history of the internet? I'm thinking yes.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/sho ... hp?t=52641

I hope I, in my entire life, can obtain just a fraction of the amount of win contained in that post.

by **Greyeagle** » Tue 5/01/12 7:42 pm

gopherguy13 wrote:
dxmnkd316 wrote:Best post in the history of the internet? I'm thinking yes.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/sho ... hp?t=52641

I hope I, in my entire life, can obtain just a fraction of the amount of win contained in that post.

Wow, that is amazing.

by **Handyman** » Tue 5/01/12 8:39 pm

SkiUMahLaw wrote:
Now the GOP has, despite wanting to adjourn yesterday and having this issue being discussed as a major issue for, oh, about a year, come up with the idea of putting infrastructure only amounts in the bonding bill, which would require 60% approval to pass-- and just came up with this idea today, not mentioning it to the Governor or the Vikings at all until, oh, an hour ago.

Clearly, they're trying to pass the buck to the DFL, despite the fact that 1.) the amount in the bonding bill won't come close to the amount negotiated and bandied about for about two months and has passed committee, and 2.) the Vikings haven't promised to build a stadium for that amount, which would most certainly require them to shoulder all the cost for the stadium.

Unfortunately, it appears clear that the GOP doesn't have the votes to pass the bill that has made it through committee, so they are trying anything to avoid the blame when this thing blows up.

You just cant make this stuff up...

by **dryfly** » Tue 5/01/12 8:58 pm

Hobey Baker wrote:
Slap Shot wrote:
Hobey Baker wrote:How can they keep turning a blind eye to gambling monies???? It is so easy.

We have gambling .. it exists. Racino and a couple of state run casinos.

I thought I heard today that horse tracks will be able to expand card tables? But no, Parise forbid the state expand gambling opportunities.

They are to attract horses and increase the purses so horse racing doesnt die in the state ..

That should tell you something - there isn't enough gambling money in the state to support all the things the different groups demand - from tribes to charities to habitat to horses etc.

That is why the key element to make this pass and actually work - meaning bond holders are close to 100% certain of being paid - is the state of Minnesota stepping up and co-signing the deal. Stating unequivocally that if the other funding mechanisms fail (and those proposed so far probably would given competition for those dollars) ... Then no argument - the state tax payers pick up the tab.

That is what the GOP controlled state house doesn't want to sign on to and frankly without it it's dead.

by **Kelor** » Tue 5/01/12 9:29 pm

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/badgers/ ... 59825.html

Michael Bennet arrested on federal fraud charges.

by **jallengarry** » Wed 5/02/12 6:17 am

SkiUMahLaw wrote:
Now the GOP has, despite wanting to adjourn yesterday and having this issue being discussed as a major issue for, oh, about a year, come up with the idea of putting infrastructure only amounts in the bonding bill, which would require 60% approval to pass-- and just came up with this idea today, not mentioning it to the Governor or the Vikings at all until, oh, an hour ago.

Clearly, they're trying to pass the buck to the DFL, despite the fact that 1.) the amount in the bonding bill won't come close to the amount negotiated and bandied about for about two months and has passed committee, and 2.) the Vikings haven't promised to build a stadium for that amount, which would most certainly require them to shoulder all the cost for the stadium.

Unfortunately, it appears clear that the GOP doesn't have the votes to pass the bill that has made it through committee, so they are trying anything to avoid the blame when this thing blows up.

Very true....here's Seifert's take slamming the GOP

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/41553/vikings-stadium-republican-takeover?fb_action_ids=10150772059374487&fb_action_types=news.reads&fb_ref=fb_opengraph&fb_source=other_multiline

by **Tee09** » Wed 5/02/12 11:02 am

jallengarry wrote:
SkiUMahLaw wrote:
Now the GOP has, despite wanting to adjourn yesterday and having this issue being discussed as a major issue for, oh, about a year, come up with the idea of putting infrastructure only amounts in the bonding bill, which would require 60% approval to pass-- and just came up with this idea today, not mentioning it to the Governor or the Vikings at all until, oh, an hour ago.

Clearly, they're trying to pass the buck to the DFL, despite the fact that 1.) the amount in the bonding bill won't come close to the amount negotiated and bandied about for about two months and has passed committee, and 2.) the Vikings haven't promised to build a stadium for that amount, which would most certainly require them to shoulder all the cost for the stadium.

Unfortunately, it appears clear that the GOP doesn't have the votes to pass the bill that has made it through committee, so they are trying anything to avoid the blame when this thing blows up.

Very true....here's Seifert's take slamming the GOP

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/41553/vikings-stadium-republican-takeover?fb_action_ids=10150772059374487&fb_action_types=news.reads&fb_ref=fb_opengraph&fb_source=other_multiline

So...LA Vikings?

by **JWG** » Wed 5/02/12 12:21 pm

Tee09 wrote:So...LA Vikings?

I welcome the St. Louis Rams into the NFC North.

by **Tee09** » Wed 5/02/12 12:22 pm

JWG wrote:
Tee09 wrote:So...LA Vikings?

I welcome the St. Louis Rams into the NFC North.

The two free wins a year would be nice.

by **Kelor** » Wed 5/02/12 12:23 pm

Doesn't it matter to the stadium supporters that the majority of Minnesotans don't want anything to do with the funding of this? Maybe some of those GOP members are actually listening to their constituents. Just saying.

by **davescharf** » Wed 5/02/12 12:43 pm

Kelor wrote:Doesn't it matter to the stadium supporters that the majority of Minnesotans don't want anything to do with the funding of this? Maybe some of those GOP members are actually listening to their constituents. Just saying.

I thought I heard this morning that a majority was in support of it as long as General Fund $$s weren't a funding source. Granted, I've heard a lot of things, but I don't know that I've seen the actual data from a recent poll to back up whether a majority is in favor or not. All I remember seeing is that a majority of Ramsey County voters were definitely not in favor and even that seems like it's decades ago.

All this said, I'm pretty much to a point I just don't want to hear about it anymore either way. The inability of our elected officials to work together on anything because it has to be an "I win, you lose" proposition for anything is going to ruin this state for years if not generations.

by **rowshkex** » Wed 5/02/12 12:51 pm

davescharf wrote:
Kelor wrote:Doesn't it matter to the stadium supporters that the majority of Minnesotans don't want anything to do with the funding of this? Maybe some of those GOP members are actually listening to their constituents. Just saying.

I thought I heard this morning that a majority was in support of it as long as General Fund $$s weren't a funding source. Granted, I've heard a lot of things, but I don't know that I've seen the actual data from a recent poll to back up whether a majority is in favor or not. All I remember seeing is that a majority of Ramsey County voters were definitely not in favor and even that seems like it's decades ago.

All this said, I'm pretty much to a point I just don't want to hear about it anymore either way. The inability of our elected officials to work together on anything because it has to be an "I win, you lose" proposition for anything is going to ruin this state for years if not generations.

Agreed. It's just pathetic how it all comes down to reelection in the end... :ddown:

by **Chris83** » Wed 5/02/12 12:58 pm

Kelor wrote:Doesn't it matter to the stadium supporters that the majority of Minnesotans don't want anything to do with the funding of this? Maybe some of those GOP members are actually listening to their constituents. Just saying.

Then just agree to a vote, vote it down and be done with it. THIS crap just helps hammer home the belief that our elected officials have nothing better to do than to waste time and money. What they proposed isn't dead on arrival, it's dead on the drawing board...or even before that. Ridiculous. :ddown:

by **Riff Raff** » Wed 5/02/12 1:07 pm

Kelor wrote:Doesn't it matter to the stadium supporters that the majority of Minnesotans don't want anything to do with the funding of this? Maybe some of those GOP members are actually listening to their constituents. Just saying.

It shouldn't matter to them. Their job is to vote for what he/she feels is best for the state. A majority of Minnesotans (and I would suspect taxpayers of any state) never want any of their money used for anything.

by **Armadillo** » Wed 5/02/12 1:40 pm

Riff Raff wrote:
Kelor wrote:Doesn't it matter to the stadium supporters that the majority of Minnesotans don't want anything to do with the funding of this? Maybe some of those GOP members are actually listening to their constituents. Just saying.

It shouldn't matter to them. Their job is to vote for what he/she feels is best for the state. A majority of Minnesotans (and I would suspect taxpayers of any state) never want any of their money used for anything.

So an elected representative shouldn't listen to his or her constituents, whom they represent?

Hoo-kay.

by **streakygopher** » Wed 5/02/12 2:10 pm

Armadillo wrote:
Riff Raff wrote:
Kelor wrote:Doesn't it matter to the stadium supporters that the majority of Minnesotans don't want anything to do with the funding of this? Maybe some of those GOP members are actually listening to their constituents. Just saying.

It shouldn't matter to them. Their job is to vote for what he/she feels is best for the state. A majority of Minnesotans (and I would suspect taxpayers of any state) never want any of their money used for anything.

So an elected representative shouldn't listen to his or her constituents, whom they represent?

Hoo-kay.

This is a slippery slope argument. Federalist Paper #63 by Madison gives cause for a "well constructed senate." In part,

...but some who will be “stimulated by some irregular passion or some illicit advantage or misled by the artful misrepresentations of interested men may call for measures which they themselves will afterwards be the most ready to lament and condemn”. The cool deliberate body will save them from themselves, “from the tyranny of their own passions”, if this should happen.

Yes, elected officials answer to their constituency. However, there are times that elected officials do "what is right" for their nation...or state...despite public opinion to the contrary.

by **Handyman** » Wed 5/02/12 2:13 pm

Didnt you ever take Civics Dillo...both definitions of elected officials are correct. Yes they should listen, but it is their job to vote in the best interests not for exactly everything they want. Unless they were elected with 100% of the vote it would be impossible to do that anyways since no two citizens agree on everything ever. If all that mattered was the opinion of the constituents then this country would be a much different place.

And anytime Kelor wants to cite his "fact" about what the people want I know I will be interested to see it. I wont hold my breathe though since I was never asked by anyone nor was anyone in my family, my friends or anyone I have ever hung out with (as far as I know) so the numbers are a lie

by **Riff Raff** » Wed 5/02/12 2:19 pm

Armadillo wrote:
Riff Raff wrote:
Kelor wrote:Doesn't it matter to the stadium supporters that the majority of Minnesotans don't want anything to do with the funding of this? Maybe some of those GOP members are actually listening to their constituents. Just saying.

It shouldn't matter to them. Their job is to vote for what he/she feels is best for the state. A majority of Minnesotans (and I would suspect taxpayers of any state) never want any of their money used for anything.

So an elected representative shouldn't listen to his or her constituents, whom they represent?

Hoo-kay.

I assumed (maybe incorrectly and if so I apoligize) that your statement that the majority of the state does not want public funding was based on the various polls that have been published. I'm not sure how else you would conclude as such. Those type of polls are BS - people hate being taxed, and never are "for" their money being used for anything. So yes, politicians should not vote along the lines of said polls....they should vote for what they feel is best for the state.

edit - just realized Kelor had the first post, not you Dillo....my bad

by **Armadillo** » Wed 5/02/12 2:22 pm

Handyman wrote:Didnt you ever take Civics Dillo...both definitions of elected officials are correct. Yes they should listen, but it is their job to vote in the best interests not for exactly everything they want. Unless they were elected with 100% of the vote it would be impossible to do that anyways since no two citizens agree on everything ever. If all that mattered was the opinion of the constituents then this country would be a much different place.

And anytime Kelor wants to cite his "fact" about what the people want I know I will be interested to see it. I wont hold my breathe though since I was never asked by anyone nor was anyone in my family, my friends or anyone I have ever hung out with (as far as I know) so the numbers are a lie

I worded my original post poorly. That was my fault, and I take full responsibility for it.

What I MEANT to type was, "Eat a wiener, Dexter." :wave:

Seriously, I understand what you're saying, but I still maintain that since the electorate sent the person to Washington (or St. Paul), then their views should be expressed. Otherwise, what's to stop politicians from lying and pandering to get elected, then turning around and thumbing their nose at...

...right.

by **Handyman** » Wed 5/02/12 2:47 pm

Armadillo wrote:
What I MEANT to type was, "Eat a wiener, Dexter."

Armadillo wrote:
Seriously, I understand what you're saying, but I still maintain that since the electorate sent the person to Washington (or St. Paul), then their views should be expressed. Otherwise, what's to stop politicians from lying and pandering to get elected, then turning around and thumbing their nose at...

...right.

They should hear them out yes...but I trust the electorate about a millimeter more than I trust the politicians

by **Don Adams Wheel of Justice** » Wed 5/02/12 7:35 pm

Democracy is the worst form of government in the world except for all the other ones.

by **Hobey Baker** » Thu 5/03/12 12:36 am

You are in charge. How would you solve the funding issue for a Vikings stadium?

1. Collect a % of alcohol monies sold on Sunday (something that doesnt exist now)
2. State run Casino
3. Racino

by **Handyman** » Thu 5/03/12 1:49 am

Might as well ask which is more real Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny because none of those three are happening.

by **rowshkex** » Thu 5/03/12 2:07 am

Can't I pick several other options, dwell on them, frame my political career from them, and then pass the blame off when I can't choose one?

D*** IT ALL.

by **monty** » Thu 5/03/12 8:28 am

I think what the Repubs are saying in the latest proposal is a new stadium is infrastructure like a new road or bridge and that most infrastructure gets paid with a bonding bill.

For those of you who think that Vikings football is an integral part of our society than you should probably like the latest proposal.

by **Bertogliat** » Thu 5/03/12 9:06 am

Hobey Baker wrote:You are in charge. How would you solve the funding issue for a Vikings stadium?

1. Collect a % of alcohol monies sold on Sunday (something that doesnt exist now)
2. State run Casino
3. Racino

2 and 3. Except #2 should state White Earth Indian Casino in Arden Hills which will give a billion dollars to the state.

Racino wont expand gambling, it will shift it from the non tax paying (tribal casinos to the tax paying race tracks). Same goes with the White Earth casino.

I gamble. The current laws don't stop me or slow me down. They just greatly reduce the state's take. It is complete Insanity (read that as well paying indian lobby).

The big problem is if they built the dome right the first time around we wouldn't have to replace it with THREE stadiums. The late 70s and early 80s sucked. The dome was built like the Ford Mustangs and Chevy Camaros of that era.

:ddown:

by **Cardinal** » Thu 5/03/12 11:41 am

GOP abandons last-minute stadium plan. As you were.

Edit: House will vote on plan that is (was?) on House / Senate floors on Monday, allegedly.

by **Bladepuller** » Thu 5/03/12 11:47 am

Ryan Cardinal wrote:GOP abandons last-minute stadium plan. As you were.

WOW!

More childish drama than than .....50201? :anger:

Carry on & thanks for the update.

by **greydogg** » Thu 5/03/12 11:52 am

Bladepuller wrote:
Ryan Cardinal wrote:GOP abandons last-minute stadium plan. As you were.

WOW! More childish drama than than .....50201?
Carry on & thanks for the update.

More drama than Nevada, Iowa?

by **fightclub30** » Thu 5/03/12 12:37 pm

Bertogliat wrote:
Hobey Baker wrote:You are in charge. How would you solve the funding issue for a Vikings stadium?

1. Collect a % of alcohol monies sold on Sunday (something that doesnt exist now)
2. State run Casino
3. Racino

2 and 3. Except #2 should state White Earth Indian Casino in Arden Hills which will give a billion dollars to the state.

Racino wont expand gambling, it will shift it from the non tax paying (tribal casinos to the tax paying race tracks). Same goes with the White Earth casino.

I gamble. The current laws don't stop me or slow me down. They just greatly reduce the state's take. It is complete Insanity (read that as well paying indian lobby).

The big problem is if they built the dome right the first time around we wouldn't have to replace it with THREE stadiums. The late 70s and early 80s sucked. The dome was built like the Ford Mustangs and Chevy Camaros of that era.

THIS! I don’t understand how people (some of which have no moral compass) call it an expansion of gambling. Okay, I have an alcoholic in my family. I demand we stop building bars a liquor stores because that is an expansion of alcoholism!!!!

by **Jupiter** » Thu 5/03/12 12:45 pm

Follow the money....

Meaning... The Indian Casino lobby has tons of it and will continue to spend that money in order to keep the monopoly that they currently have running smoothly.

by **ScoobyDoo** » Thu 5/03/12 1:39 pm

Ryan Cardinal wrote:GOP abandons last-minute stadium plan. As you were.

Edit: House will vote on plan that is (was?) on House / Senate floors on Monday, allegedly.

So, they blew up the original plan for the crap that caused all the drama and now their dropping it?

Wow.

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