Vikings 2012 Season: Gentlemen, We Are Hosed

[gopher6]

these are jerks who voted no stadium

The Vikings stadium proposal was shot down in its third house committee. A lot of you were asking for the nine names who voted against the proposal. Here are the names. Enjoy...

Marion Greene, Frank Hornstein, Bev Scalze, Steve Simon, Ryan Winkler, Joyce Peppin, Rich Murray, David Hancock and Duane Quam.



Read more: http://www.kfan.com/pages/psn_powertrip ... z1sJow2HUs

[Ben]

The committee did it's job by killing a bad bill. Now the Vikings have 4 choices: Pull their head out of their ass and get a legitimate proposal ready for next year (Most likely), relocate (least likely, as there's nowhere to go), sell the team, or build a new stadium themselves.

And if anyone says "OH NO! THEY'RE GOING TO PACK UP AND MOVE TO LOS ANGELES!!!" take a deep breath and relax. LA is a pipe dream for everyone right now. The stadium's nowhere near being built, and AEG has conditions that the NFL's refusing to accept for playing in it.

[SkiUMahLaw]

The committee did it's job by killing a bad bill. Now the Vikings have 4 choices: Pull their head out of their ass and get a legitimate proposal ready for next year (Most likely), relocate (least likely, as there's nowhere to go), sell the team, or build a new stadium themselves.

And if anyone says "OH NO! THEY'RE GOING TO PACK UP AND MOVE TO LOS ANGELES!!!" take a deep breath and relax. LA is a pipe dream for everyone right now. The stadium's nowhere near being built, and AEG has conditions that the NFL's refusing to accept for playing in it.

Personally, I would have liked to see it go to the floor so it could be voted down by the entire body, but I agree with the rest of your post.

[Handyman]

Yeah, your Gopher tickets will now be almost as hot a commodity as a Swarm ticket. I'm to the point where I hope the Vikings leave. Just so I can see the comedy of watching everyone who was against the stadium turn around and start looking for someone other than themselves to blame.

They will blame Zygi...it is obviously his fault. I mean it wasnt like he did everything the state asked of him or anything.

Maybe he should have threatened to contract the team...work the jerkoff Pohlads.

[Handyman]

The committee did it's job by killing a bad bill. Now the Vikings have 4 choices: Pull their head out of their ass and get a legitimate proposal ready for next year (Most likely), relocate (least likely, as there's nowhere to go), sell the team, or build a new stadium themselves.

And if anyone says "OH NO! THEY'RE GOING TO PACK UP AND MOVE TO LOS ANGELES!!!" take a deep breath and relax. LA is a pipe dream for everyone right now. The stadium's nowhere near being built, and AEG has conditions that the NFL's refusing to accept for playing in it.

Your thesis would work if LA was the only spot to move to. It isnt, in fact it isnt even the one Vikes fans should worry about since most likely the Chargers will move there before the Vikes. I have heard 2-3 names of cities thrown around. (because 2-3 teams may relocate)

There is no time for a bill next year...next legislative session starts in what September. If the Vikes play this year without a lease they will be gone next year because the league wont stop them at that point. Zygi will sell to the highest bidder who will walk away from here. (or he will sell locally to the city that wants the team)

And lets not pretend the bill was shot down because it was poorly written, even if you are right and it was written like crap it still would have been shot down if it was perfect. Minneapolis never had the votes for this.

[DrunkHockeyGuy]

Handy

You seem to be in the "know" more than I am. How is it that Anoka couldn't approve the plan withour a referendum, yet Minneapolis was given the ok to vote with just their council? Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Anoka told they had to have a public referendum.

Love like hell that Anoka was all in on this and had the rug pulled out only to see it fail. Absolute BS.

[sunbone]

Yeah, your Gopher tickets will now be almost as hot a commodity as a Swarm ticket. I'm to the point where I hope the Vikings leave. Just so I can see the comedy of watching everyone who was against the stadium turn around and start looking for someone other than themselves to blame.

They will blame Zygi...it is obviously his fault. I mean it wasnt like he did everything the state asked of him or anything.

Maybe he should have threatened to contract the team...work the jerkoff Pohlads.

I agree with you on a lot of this stuff, Handy. But the way you vilify the Pohlads and are ready to nominate the Wilfs for sainthood is pretty ridiculous. If the Twins don't start upping the payroll in the next few years I will be right there with you ripping them. But you rip the Pohlads for maximizing profits in their new stadium, why is it you think Zygi wants a new stadium? For the fans? Do you think if and when he gets a new stadium all that money is going back into the team? And why do you think Zygi wanted the stadium in Arden Hills? Because he is really a north suburban boy at heart? And Zygi learned his lesson and did not threaten to move....yet. That is coming, whether through one of his minions or through Goodell. I want the Vikings to get a new stadium but I am not blind to the reasons why the Wilfs want it.

[sec 16 row16 seat 16 17]

so long its been good to know you.

[ex_goldy]

Yeah, your Gopher tickets will now be almost as hot a commodity as a Swarm ticket. I'm to the point where I hope the Vikings leave. Just so I can see the comedy of watching everyone who was against the stadium turn around and start looking for someone other than themselves to blame.

They will blame Zygi...it is obviously his fault. I mean it wasnt like he did everything the state asked of him or anything.

Maybe he should have threatened to contract the team...work the jerkoff Pohlads.

I love it! The Pohlad path won't play out though due to time constraints. They have a year to craft something and no one will do it with their name on it. Can there be a more lame job in the world than to be a politician? You have to spend money on something and hide that you were ever for it in the first place (simplified) or half of the people will hate you.

Before contraction to be a true Pohlad follower he needs to come up with a proposal that 'gives' the money for the stadium to the state to look like a hero, then put in the contract (that no one in the state read, only the press) that the money he was giving is a loan. then it's contraction, then it's get it built promising to pay the state something (couple hundred mill, who's counting?) then not pay it. Stadium is built, you got no reason to pay off anyone.

Should there be a 'Carl' clause in the new stadium bill? Something like "In order to make sure the citizens of the state of Minnesota aren't ripped off, the final stages of completion will be paid for by using the owners share of the $ they promised would be their responsibility. " that way it doesn't get done until they pay up and the state isn't holding up a tab that no one pays.

[Armadillo]

I love how it's suddenly unreasonable to ask NFL owners to pony up more than 1/3 the cost of a friggin' palace, when you know the prices of everything at a new stadium will SKYROCKET. How do we as fans and taxpayers come out ahead with this, again?

[Bladepuller]

Handy

You seem to be in the "know" more than I am. How is it that Anoka couldn't approve the plan withour a referendum, yet Minneapolis was given the ok to vote with just their council? Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Anoka told they had to have a public referendum.

Love like hell that Anoka was all in on this and had the rug pulled out only to see it fail. Absolute BS.

The Anoka County board at the time were adamant that they wanted a roofed stadium of some sort so that the investment would be for a venue that would be used for more than a min. of 10 NFL games a year. There have been a number of changes on he board since then and your county commissioner, who is now the chair of the board as opposed to being the contrarion (Sound like someone familiar? ) she was then. The Vikings walked because they did not want to but the $$$ into a roof. There is a school of thought that the Vikes were just using Anoka Co. for leverage. Again, sound familiar?
There was no referendum needed, by statute, in Anoka Co; there is a referendum needed, by statute, in the city of Mpls., by some legal opinions.
Dick Lang was on the county board at the time and we are buddies.

[ex_goldy]

I love how it's suddenly unreasonable to ask NFL owners to pony up more than 1/3 the cost of a friggin' palace, when you know the prices of everything at a new stadium will SKYROCKET. How do we as fans and taxpayers come out ahead with this, again?

You want what? This has nothing to do with the public until the ball is snapped. This is about one owner telling us what he wants in order to make the most money he possibly can. All the other owners get it, he should too. And there are plenty of other people that want to play his game. I sound like a stadium backer but I'm not. I liked the metrodome. It had a roof, had individual seat backs, twins, vikings, and gophers all played there. Over 50,000 people fit in there. It is a football stadium. It just doesn't compete with other teams. Indy had exact same stadium, it's already torn down and a new one is in place. Vancouver had one, they're converting it to a retractable roof. I guess it's time to build anew. I'm in favor of the downtown site though. All the lite rail and parking is there. the basilica is closeby in case you want to go throw down some 'hail marys'.

[SkiUMahLaw]

Your thesis would work if LA was the only spot to move to. It isnt, in fact it isnt even the one Vikes fans should worry about since most likely the Chargers will move there before the Vikes. I have heard 2-3 names of cities thrown around. (because 2-3 teams may relocate)

There is no time for a bill next year...next legislative session starts in what September. If the Vikes play this year without a lease they will be gone next year because the league wont stop them at that point. Zygi will sell to the highest bidder who will walk away from here. (or he will sell locally to the city that wants the team)

And lets not pretend the bill was shot down because it was poorly written, even if you are right and it was written like crap it still would have been shot down if it was perfect. Minneapolis never had the votes for this.

The Bill was bad because it still didn't nail down a funding mechanism. There was never going to be anything more than tepid agreement when you're talking about diverting pulltab revenues (which otherwise go to pay for LOCAL charitable sources such as youth athletics and hockey) and instead giving it to the Vikings. The Mystic tribe killed racino and the idea that the White Earth tribe would be allowed to open a Metro casino was a non-starter with the other tribes. It was a bad bill and rushed to the legislature, who spent comparatively little time in working through it. Simply put, you never would have found support among the legislature's leaders to make this happen this year-- it was the hot potato that nobody wanted to be holding when the music stopped.

The Twins were relatively very upfront with their desire about a local sales tax to fund Target Field-- but that was in a different economic climate, and Hennepin County did the heavy lifting. The Vikes have constantly harped on gambling to fund theirs, without really playing their politics very well. The metro tribes have a very strong lobby, and they don't like anyone infringing on their territory. The Vikes haven't yet figured this out. The Vikes totally burned Anoka County, and there never was enough support in Ramsey County to do Arden Hills-- having St. Paul foot the tax burden of a stadium in the suburbs wasn't going to work with the St. Paul delegation. It's really Minneapolis or bust.

I think Wilf gives it one more try this next year. Then he sells the team. The cost for relocating a team (relocation fee to other owners) would rival the Vikes proposed contribution to a stadium-- and that's without a suitable place to move to.

[Handyman]

I agree with you on a lot of this stuff, Handy. But the way you vilify the Pohlads and are ready to nominate the Wilfs for sainthood is pretty ridiculous. If the Twins don't start upping the payroll in the next few years I will be right there with you ripping them. But you rip the Pohlads for maximizing profits in their new stadium, why is it you think Zygi wants a new stadium? For the fans? Do you think if and when he gets a new stadium all that money is going back into the team? And why do you think Zygi wanted the stadium in Arden Hills? Because he is really a north suburban boy at heart? And Zygi learned his lesson and did not threaten to move....yet. That is coming, whether through one of his minions or through Goodell. I want the Vikings to get a new stadium but I am not blind to the reasons why the Wilfs want it.

The Pohlad's can do whatever they choose I just think it was funny they have basically lied, cheated and stole and yet somehow were able convince the legislature to break the rules and get their stadium. Up the payroll...hah it is only going to go down unless you think they are gonna use the money they save on Pavano next year to sign anyone. I wouldnt go holding your breathe on that one.

As for the Wilfs, they arent saints, but they have at least poured a ton of cash into the team. (they borrowed to sign jared allen for Parise sakes) They were promised a stadium deal much like the Twins got back when the Twins got theirs and now the Legislature is backing down. They got backdoored plain and simple. Beyond that I dont much back their plays on most stuff including the abandoning of the Blaine plan or their choices in the front office.

Remember I only supported one team getting a stadium, the Gophers. I didnt want the Twins to get theirs or the Vikes. But what is good for the goose is good for the gander and Zygi did what he said so it is time for the Legs to sack up or feel the backlash.

I think the Wilf is already looking for buyers, he knows he has no chance to get a bill through. The votes arent there, and they wont be in the next session either, unless Dayton screws over the schools again and borrows all of their money. If they cant break the referendum no deal will pass period.

[Handyman]

I love how it's suddenly unreasonable to ask NFL owners to pony up more than 1/3 the cost of a friggin' palace, when you know the prices of everything at a new stadium will SKYROCKET. How do we as fans and taxpayers come out ahead with this, again?

Who said that?

BTW the Wilfs are paying $427 million, the State $398 million and Minneapolis $150 million. Now I may suck at math but 43% is > 1/3

[rowshkex]

I love how it's suddenly unreasonable to ask NFL owners to pony up more than 1/3 the cost of a friggin' palace, when you know the prices of everything at a new stadium will SKYROCKET. How do we as fans and taxpayers come out ahead with this, again?

Who said that?

BTW the Wilfs are paying $427 million, the State $398 million and Minneapolis $150 million. Now I may suck at math but 43% is > 1/3

Your math skills are to be commended. However, they should be putting up AT LEAST half, in my opinion... However, we all know there's no way in hell that happens.

[kmd]

I love how it's suddenly unreasonable to ask NFL owners to pony up more than 1/3 the cost of a friggin' palace, when you know the prices of everything at a new stadium will SKYROCKET. How do we as fans and taxpayers come out ahead with this, again?

You want what? This has nothing to do with the public until the ball is snapped. This is about one owner telling us what he wants in order to make the most money he possibly can. All the other owners get it, he should too. And there are plenty of other people that want to play his game. I sound like a stadium backer but I'm not. I liked the metrodome. It had a roof, had individual seat backs, twins, vikings, and gophers all played there. Over 50,000 people fit in there. It is a football stadium. It just doesn't compete with other teams. Indy had exact same stadium, it's already torn down and a new one is in place. Vancouver had one, they're converting it to a retractable roof. I guess it's time to build anew. I'm in favor of the downtown site though. All the lite rail and parking is there. the basilica is closeby in case you want to go throw down some 'hail marys'.

Isn't he asking for more money than any owner has ever gotten before? I'd like to see a stadium deal go through eventually, but I'm also glad that our government is finally taking a stand to prevent further escalation in how much owners can extort a city for handouts. The $550 million he's asking for from the state/city is equal to the entire cost of Ford Field (when adjusted to 2012 dollars).

[sunbone]

As for the Wilfs, they arent saints, but they have at least poured a ton of cash into the team. (they borrowed to sign jared allen for Parise sakes) They were promised a stadium deal much like the Twins got back when the Twins got theirs and now the Legislature is backing down. They got backdoored plain and simple. Beyond that I dont much back their plays on most stuff including the abandoning of the Blaine plan or their choices in the front office.

Remember I only supported one team getting a stadium, the Gophers. I didnt want the Twins to get theirs or the Vikes. But what is good for the goose is good for the gander and Zygi did what he said so it is time for the Legs to sack up or feel the backlash.

I think the Wilf is already looking for buyers, he knows he has no chance to get a bill through. The votes arent there, and they wont be in the next session either, unless Dayton screws over the schools again and borrows all of their money. If they cant break the referendum no deal will pass period.

You know I couldn't stand Contractin' Carl, but to be fair he was never making money on the team when they were in the Dome. And Zygi has poured money into the team. But he has not lost money on them for even one year, and he still wouldn't lose money if they stayed in the Dome another 20 years. He just wouldn't make as much. Anyways, a site should have been agreed upon years ago along with a funding source and the stadium should be done or under construction. Typical Minnesota, we'll wait and wait and wait as the costs continue to rise on something that should have been done by now and it will cost twice as much.

[gopher6]

final queens schedule 0-16 see ya
http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_20 ... sed-by-nfl

[Armadillo]

I love how it's suddenly unreasonable to ask NFL owners to pony up more than 1/3 the cost of a friggin' palace, when you know the prices of everything at a new stadium will SKYROCKET. How do we as fans and taxpayers come out ahead with this, again?

Who said that?

BTW the Wilfs are paying $427 million, the State $398 million and Minneapolis $150 million. Now I may suck at math but 43% is > 1/3

Shut up, I explain.

I personally think the Wilfs should pay for 100% of the new stadium. I don't care how unrealistic that is.

[dxmnkd316]

Just so I can see the comedy of watching everyone who was against the stadium turn around and start looking for someone other than themselves to blame.

Screw that noise. I'll take the credit and the Wilfs can take the blame. I'll add it to my sig line if they leave.

I'm proud of the state for standing up and telling the billionaire extortion artists to pound sand. YOU CAN BUILD A GORGEOUS STADIUM FOR $735 MILLION!!!!!! 25% less than what he's asking.

[Dolphin275]

Just so I can see the comedy of watching everyone who was against the stadium turn around and start looking for someone other than themselves to blame.

Screw that noise. I'll take the credit and the Wilfs can take the blame. I'll add it to my sig line if they leave.

I'm proud of the state for standing up and telling the billionaire extortion artists to pound sand. YOU CAN BUILD A GORGEOUS STADIUM FOR $735 MILLION!!!!!! 25% less than what he's asking.

I don't follow the cost of a new stadium. But, can you really build a nice one for $735 Million?
This isn't meant as a sarcastic comment.
What is the difference between the one billion he wants, and the $735 Million?
I would think you would be able to build one for the lesser amount

[kmd]

Just so I can see the comedy of watching everyone who was against the stadium turn around and start looking for someone other than themselves to blame.

Screw that noise. I'll take the credit and the Wilfs can take the blame. I'll add it to my sig line if they leave.

I'm proud of the state for standing up and telling the billionaire extortion artists to pound sand. YOU CAN BUILD A GORGEOUS STADIUM FOR $735 MILLION!!!!!! 25% less than what he's asking.

I don't follow the cost of a new stadium. But, can you really build a nice one for $735 Million?
This isn't meant as a sarcastic comment.
What is the difference between the one billion he wants, and the $735 Million?
I would think you would be able to build one for the lesser amount

Cost of all NFL stadiums built in the last decade, all prices are adjusted for 2012 dollars, per wikipedia:
Metlife Stadium: 1.7 billion
Cowboys Stadium: 1.4 billion
Soldier Field (renovated): 798 million
Lucas Oil Stadium: 777 million
Lincoln Financial Field: 647 million
Century Link Field: 556 million
Ford Field: 556 million
University of Phoenix Stadium: 525 million
Reliant Stadium: 455 million
Gillette Stadium: 420 million

[Ben]

The Vikings share still isn't dick. The G-4 program will contribute $200m of the $427m from the Vikings. The rest will either come from PSLs and Naming Rights or will simply be leveraged against the franchise.

[dxmnkd316]

Just so I can see the comedy of watching everyone who was against the stadium turn around and start looking for someone other than themselves to blame.

Screw that noise. I'll take the credit and the Wilfs can take the blame. I'll add it to my sig line if they leave.

I'm proud of the state for standing up and telling the billionaire extortion artists to pound sand. YOU CAN BUILD A GORGEOUS STADIUM FOR $735 MILLION!!!!!! 25% less than what he's asking.

I don't follow the cost of a new stadium. But, can you really build a nice one for $735 Million?
This isn't meant as a sarcastic comment.
What is the difference between the one billion he wants, and the $735 Million?
I would think you would be able to build one for the lesser amount

Cost of all NFL stadiums built in the last decade, all prices are adjusted for 2012 dollars, per wikipedia:
Metlife Stadium: 1.7 billion
Cowboys Stadium: 1.4 billion
Soldier Field (renovated): 798 million
Lucas Oil Stadium: 777 million
Lincoln Financial Field: 647 million
Century Link Field: 556 million
Ford Field: 556 million
University of Phoenix Stadium: 525 million
Reliant Stadium: 455 million
Gillette Stadium: 420 million

Two asterisks:
Metlife had two teams funding it
Jerryworld was funded by... well, Jerry

Lucas Oil is what I was guessing at.

[dxmnkd316]

The Vikings share still isn't dick. The G-4 program will contribute $200m of the $427m from the Vikings. The rest will either come from PSLs and Naming Rights or will simply be leveraged against the franchise.

DING DING!

Not only that, Zigi will bend the fans over the table and rape them with a 50% hike in ticket prices, $10 for a beer, and who knows what else.

Anyone who thinks the Wilfs will spend a penny on this is delusional. Until I see some substantial cash from them, I say screw 'em.

[rowshkex]

The Vikings share still isn't dick. The G-4 program will contribute $200m of the $427m from the Vikings. The rest will either come from PSLs and Naming Rights or will simply be leveraged against the franchise.

DING DING!

Not only that, Zigi will bend the fans over the table and rape them with a 50% hike in ticket prices, $10 for a beer, and who knows what else.

Anyone who thinks the Wilfs will spend a penny on this is delusional. Until I see some substantial cash from them, I say screw 'em.

Yup. He never has and never will care about the fans. It's hard to believe that anyone with that much money does. They care about their wallets. Period.

[kmd]

Two asterisks:
Metlife had two teams funding it
Jerryworld was funded by... well, Jerry

Lucas Oil is what I was guessing at.

I thought about adding asterisks like that, but decided against it.

The city of Arlington put $325 million towards Jerryworld , which was originally projected to be only $650 million (in 2005 dollars). He also got a $150 million loan from the NFL. So the amount (after inflation) and percentage of funding local government was willing to provide in the original plan is actually somewhat comparable to what the Vikings are asking for.

[Handyman]

Typical Minnesota, we'll wait and wait and wait as the costs continue to rise on something that should have been done by now and it will cost twice as much.

Yep...they delay and delay figuring it will work itself out later and everything will be fine and then when it hits the fan they wonder why everything is a mess. It should have never reached this point it should have been worked out a long time ago. Minneapolis jumping in at the 11th hour to keep the Vikes downtown despite not having a site that really works (even the proposed site isnt that great it just was the only one that worked) pretty much screwed everyone.

[Handyman]

DING DING!

Not only that, Zigi will bend the fans over the table and rape them with a 50% hike in ticket prices, $10 for a beer, and who knows what else.

Anyone who thinks the Wilfs will spend a penny on this is delusional. Until I see some substantial cash from them, I say screw 'em.

And yet dont you just love going to Target Field where the Pohlad's do the same thing? Hell they raised ticket prices in year 2 of the stadium...something almost unheard of. (not to mention have cut payroll along with it)

So what is the difference between paying off one extortionist (who spent a decade lying and screwing over the fans to the point he was going to just disband the franchise) as opposed to the other?

Hey let's prove our point though...whether you like it or not it will cost more 10 years down the line when they try to get another team here. (and they will) Remember the Legislature could have figured this out years ago when costs were lower and the money existed but they wanted to push and push and wait until the last minute. Well here we are.

[ex_goldy]

If the Vikings leave and 10 years from now people want a team would it pass a referendum? Isn't that going to be required?
I predict next year the Vikings get a stadium but Wilf needs to pony up more than what the NFL is giving him and all profits if the team is sold. He should be locked in here. According to Ted Mondale Minnesota is going to get $18-$20 million in tax revenue on a $1 + Billion investment. So does that mean payback is in 100 years? The public needs to get a return and payback a portion of the stadium. Tax them for 5 years with a decreasing tax rate every year. He's going to make something like $100 mill a year on everything from the nfl. 1st year 50%, 2nd year 40%.. something like that to cover $400 mill or so.

[Handyman]

Yeah cause if you were him you would take that deal...

[ScoobyDoo]

As long as other communities are willing to pay we have to pay. So, pay the man. We could have saved bucketloads of cash if we had built the thing already. The longer we wait the steeper the price.

Or, let them leave. And watch us be just dumb enough to pay double to get someone back in 10 years. And they won't be Purple and they won't be called the Vikings.

[davescharf]

As long as other communities are willing to pay we have to pay. So, pay the man. We could have saved bucketloads of cash if we had built the thing already. The longer we wait the steeper the price.

Or, let them leave. And watch us be just dumb enough to pay double to get someone back in 10 years. And they won't be Purple and they won't be called the Vikings.

But then we can have 'Viking Day' like the Wild did for the tribute to the North Stars

[Five-HoleFrenzy]

As long as other communities are willing to pay we have to pay. So, pay the man. We could have saved bucketloads of cash if we had built the thing already. The longer we wait the steeper the price.

Or, let them leave. And watch us be just dumb enough to pay double to get someone back in 10 years. And they won't be Purple and they won't be called the Vikings.

I'd miss purple but the decades of futility that is the Vikings I wouldn't

[Hobey Baker]

The Vikes have waited their turn and got screwed.

Our legislators have had 10 years to find the proper mechanism to fund a stadium for the Vikes. Here are a few:

1. Indian Participation (tax them, have them pay or participate w/ casino)
2. State run Casinos
3. Raceino / slots at Canteburry
4. 1/2 to 1 cent sales tax (state wide preferred but could do county)
5. Increase sales tax on out of town car rentals and hotel stays (see Arizona)

This isn't that difficult and itsn't about supporting Billionaires ... it simply comes down to what is best for the city of MPLS and the state of MN. I view the new football stadium as a welcome additon to the community. I like the fact that we are creating 7-8 thousand contruction jobs. I enjoy having the NFL here! Do you hear many complain about the X, TCF or Target Field???

[sunbone]

Just so I can see the comedy of watching everyone who was against the stadium turn around and start looking for someone other than themselves to blame.

Screw that noise. I'll take the credit and the Wilfs can take the blame. I'll add it to my sig line if they leave.

I'm proud of the state for standing up and telling the billionaire extortion artists to pound sand. YOU CAN BUILD A GORGEOUS STADIUM FOR $735 MILLION!!!!!! 25% less than what he's asking.

I guess we see things differently. 25 years from now the Wilfs won’t even own the team. I would rather still have the Vikings here than be able to say, “boy, we really showed that Zygi what we are made of!”

[SkiUMahLaw]

The Vikes have waited their turn and got screwed.

Our legislators have had 10 years to find the proper mechanism to fund a stadium for the Vikes. Here are a few:

1. Indian Participation (tax them, have them pay or participate w/ casino)
2. State run Casinos
3. Raceino / slots at Canteburry
4. 1/2 to 1 cent sales tax (state wide preferred but could do county)
5. Increase sales tax on out of town car rentals and hotel stays (see Arizona)

This isn't that difficult and itsn't about supporting Billionaires ... it simply comes down to what is best for the city of MPLS and the state of MN. I view the new football stadium as a welcome additon to the community. I like the fact that we are creating 7-8 thousand contruction jobs. I enjoy having the NFL here! Do you hear many complain about the X, TCF or Target Field???

I really don't understand the 10 years and "waiting their turn" angle. As I see it, the Vikes got their turn with the Dome and it was the Twins and Gophers who had to wait.

The U waited 35 years to have an on-campus stadium.

The Twins (forced into the dome by the Griffiths' lack of cash in the late 1970s) started asking for a new stadium in 1993 and finally got it approved in 2005.

The Vikes finally got the Dome in 1977 after waiting for 16 years at the Met. Now they are waiting on a new Dome?

So I have no sympathy for "waiting for ten years." They got theirs in 1980. They're now last in line. They will wait. They will wait some more. Even when they had a deal ready to go, they still scuttled it. Remember, it was the Vikings that screwed Anoka County in the early 2000s. They wanted a better deal and were willing to wait. So wait they will. Their attitude alone is something akin to, "you owe us" instead of, "let's do this together." I cannot sign onto that approach!

The Vikes seemed to have learned very little from the Twins experience. Pohlad wanted a new stadium done after the 1991 world series, and did about every wrong move in the book until they finally figured it out in the mid-2000s. The biggest problem is that the Vikings have not played the legislature's game-- they've tried to use a rabid fanbase to merely pressure legislators from the outside instead of playing true politics with the necessary funding sources. Increased taxes sound great, except one party won't have taxes increased one dime. Taking money from casinos works great except that the other party won't risk alienating their base for a sports team. Outstate legislators won't support a tax increase because it's a 5 hour drive to see "their" team. Metro legislators need tax revenues to pay for outdated infrastructure that the out of towners use. You aren't going to bridge these philosophical issues by Joe Vikingfan standing up and saying, "But Purple Pride!" You have to really get into bed with both parties and get your hands dirty, and get a bill that both parties hate equally. Then construction and jobs will win out. But that takes time and a dealbroker, and the Vikings keep pounding on the table and saying they have neither. Bull.

I have no objection to the state funding a portion of the stadium. But what has been proposed to date has been a pipe dream for the Vikings at Taxpayer expense, and anything less is deemed "unacceptable." Put it all on the table, including the pricetag!

[h8red]

As long as other communities are willing to pay we have to pay. So, pay the man. We could have saved bucketloads of cash if we had built the thing already. The longer we wait the steeper the price.

Or, let them leave. And watch us be just dumb enough to pay double to get someone back in 10 years. And they won't be Purple and they won't be called the Vikings.

I'd miss purple but the decades of futility that is the Vikings I wouldn't

I think the franchise has been doomed from the start. Think about it. I don't really care for the Vikings or any NFL team. The only reason I would really like them to stay is for the local economy & people's jobs. Now that I think of it,
I guess I would miss some of the futility because it's quite entertaining:
Denny Green comments/failures & his musical talents
Brutal trades such as Herschel Walker
The great show known as the Herschel Walker show!
The antics of Randy Moss, Bret Favre, et al.: whizzinator, love boat, scalping superbowl tickets, brutal choke jobs & horrible upset losses. So unbelievable you just can't make it up! How else are we going to replace this entertainment?

[Beauner]

The Vikes have waited their turn and got screwed.

Our legislators have had 10 years to find the proper mechanism to fund a stadium for the Vikes. Here are a few:

1. Indian Participation (tax them, have them pay or participate w/ casino)
2. State run Casinos
3. Raceino / slots at Canteburry
4. 1/2 to 1 cent sales tax (state wide preferred but could do county)
5. Increase sales tax on out of town car rentals and hotel stays (see Arizona)

This isn't that difficult and itsn't about supporting Billionaires ... it simply comes down to what is best for the city of MPLS and the state of MN. I view the new football stadium as a welcome additon to the community. I like the fact that we are creating 7-8 thousand contruction jobs. I enjoy having the NFL here! Do you hear many complain about the X, TCF or Target Field???

I am so sick of people trying to "stick it" to the Wilfs. They have done nothing but try to field a quality team in Minnesota for a tortured franchise, but because they want to build an incredible stadium for Vikings fans to be proud of and love and potentially bring a Super Bowl to Minnesota. Vikings "fans" would rather just stick it to Zygi and tell him to off and apparently so would the legislature. People don't seem to realize that in 30 years, the Wilfs will probably not own the team anymore. So you're not just sticking it to the Wilfs, you're sticking it to the state who is losing a valuable piece of our sports landscape and our state.

Ask Indianapolis how much money they got from the Super Bowl. Look at how much that did for their city. From many reports, Indianapolis is now "in the running" for the loose cycle of Super Bowl towns. If the Vikings build the stadium Zygi wants, the NFL will likely reward Minnesota with a Super Bowl. If it is done right, we could easily join that rotation, especially if the stadium is a hit with fans.

Typical of Minnesota to ing this ing thing up.

[Hobey Baker]

The Vikes have waited their turn and got screwed.

Our legislators have had 10 years to find the proper mechanism to fund a stadium for the Vikes. Here are a few:

1. Indian Participation (tax them, have them pay or participate w/ casino)
2. State run Casinos
3. Raceino / slots at Canteburry
4. 1/2 to 1 cent sales tax (state wide preferred but could do county)
5. Increase sales tax on out of town car rentals and hotel stays (see Arizona)

This isn't that difficult and itsn't about supporting Billionaires ... it simply comes down to what is best for the city of MPLS and the state of MN. I view the new football stadium as a welcome additon to the community. I like the fact that we are creating 7-8 thousand contruction jobs. I enjoy having the NFL here! Do you hear many complain about the X, TCF or Target Field???

I really don't understand the 10 years and "waiting their turn" angle. As I see it, the Vikes got their turn with the Dome and it was the Twins and Gophers who had to wait.

The U waited 35 years to have an on-campus stadium.

The Twins (forced into the dome by the Griffiths' lack of cash in the late 1970s) started asking for a new stadium in 1993 and finally got it approved in 2005.

The Vikes finally got the Dome in 1977 after waiting for 16 years at the Met. Now they are waiting on a new Dome?

So I have no sympathy for "waiting for ten years." They got theirs in 1980. They're now last in line. They will wait. They will wait some more. Even when they had a deal ready to go, they still scuttled it. Remember, it was the Vikings that screwed Anoka County in the early 2000s. They wanted a better deal and were willing to wait. So wait they will. Their attitude alone is something akin to, "you owe us" instead of, "let's do this together." I cannot sign onto that approach!

The Vikes seemed to have learned very little from the Twins experience. Pohlad wanted a new stadium done after the 1991 world series, and did about every wrong move in the book until they finally figured it out in the mid-2000s. The biggest problem is that the Vikings have not played the legislature's game-- they've tried to use a rabid fanbase to merely pressure legislators from the outside instead of playing true politics with the necessary funding sources. Increased taxes sound great, except one party won't have taxes increased one dime. Taking money from casinos works great except that the other party won't risk alienating their base for a sports team. Outstate legislators won't support a tax increase because it's a 5 hour drive to see "their" team. Metro legislators need tax revenues to pay for outdated infrastructure that the out of towners use. You aren't going to bridge these philosophical issues by Joe Vikingfan standing up and saying, "But Purple Pride!" You have to really get into bed with both parties and get your hands dirty, and get a bill that both parties hate equally. Then construction and jobs will win out. But that takes time and a dealbroker, and the Vikings keep pounding on the table and saying they have neither. Bull.

I have no objection to the state funding a portion of the stadium. But what has been proposed to date has been a pipe dream for the Vikings at Taxpayer expense, and anything less is deemed "unacceptable." Put it all on the table, including the pricetag!

You couldn't be more off. The Wilfs have done everything the Legislature has asked of them. Wait your turn. We need to do TCF BAnk. Find a partner ... Anoka. Don't put the gun to our heads!! Get in bed with Minneapolis. Make sure you put in enough money.

As for the Dome, Calvin wanted the Dome to guarantee revenue or he was moving to St Pete.

Fund the stadium with Gambling money .. nothing at tax payer expense! Gambling money is all by choice. It already exists and why let the Indians enjoy the entire pie (unless they want to participate).

It is so simple.

[Armadillo]

but because they want to build an incredible stadium for Vikings fans to be proud of and love and potentially bring a Super Bowl to Minnesota. Vikings "fans" would rather just stick it to Zygi and tell him to off and apparently so would the legislature.

Oh Sweet Jesus Lemonade...

Are you high? If all the Wilfs want to do is "build an incredible stadium for Vikings fans to be proud of and love," THEN THEY CAN BUILD THE G**DAMN THING THEMSELVES!!! It's not like they COULDN'T afford it!

Oh man, trying to guilt-trip taxpayers into giving themselves a prostate exam...I thought I'd seen everything...

[jallengarry]

If it was so simple...it would be done.

[Don Adams Wheel of Justice]

This much is simple. The Vikings will not stay unless a new stadium is built. The Vikings will not pay for all of it themselves. Public money is a must. I feel like the"pay for it yourself" group just wants to blame the Vikings for leaving instead of dealing with the reality of the situation.

[Orion]

Why is it the Vikings are getting screwed because the Twins got a stadium? The way I see thing it was the Twins by way of Hennipenn county and the legislature that screwed the residents of the county.

Secondly, they want a new stadium to be more profittable right? How much more per year do they want? At what point would it be cheaper for the state to just pay them X amount per year to stay in the dome? Or better yet, pay them by way of a team performance incentive plan.

[Beauner]

but because they want to build an incredible stadium for Vikings fans to be proud of and love and potentially bring a Super Bowl to Minnesota. Vikings "fans" would rather just stick it to Zygi and tell him to off and apparently so would the legislature.

Oh Sweet Jesus Lemonade...

Are you high? If all the Wilfs want to do is "build an incredible stadium for Vikings fans to be proud of and love," THEN THEY CAN BUILD THE G**DAMN THING THEMSELVES!!! It's not like they COULDN'T afford it!

Oh man, trying to guilt-trip taxpayers into giving themselves a prostate exam...I thought I'd seen everything...

What part of my post was guilt-tripping the taxpayers?
Especially since I don't support raising the taxes to pay for the stadium. In fact, I didn't mention taxpayers at all.
We have 209731895 other options. Including using casinos/raceinos/Native American funding. What pisses me off is that people are so shortsighted because the team sucked last year that they're just going to say "Good riddance, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out," rather than actually try to figure something out to keep them here.

My ideal scenario involves the White Earth tribe's deal along with the Wilf's money. White Earth was reportedly offering 400+ million, the Wilfs will offer 425ish million up. That is 825 million at least. If the other tribes want to keep their gambling portion, have them offer some money up too. Build a joint casino in downtown, and split the profits by money donated to the building of the stadium. This seems like a great way for the tribes well outside of the suburban ring (far north, etc.) to increase profits for themselves, as well as get their name some positive publicity. So, for example, if Tribe A donates 200 million out of the total 600 million (completely made up number just to make this make sense) to build the stadium/downtown casino, they get 33.33% of the profits from said downtown casino. Tribe B donates 50 million? They get 1/12th of the profits. Tribe C donates 300 million? They get 50% of the profits. Etc. etc. etc. until we get the stadium paid for and the downtown casino built.
In my scenario, the state would build the casino downtown and pay for the construction etc., and the tribes and Vikings would pay for building the stadium. The Vikings would then pay the state back for the construction of the casino with their earnings from the stadium/parking etc. In recognition to the tribes that donated, the Vikings could build in some murals recognizing the tribes, their history, etc. and offer travel packages to those casinos on their reservations, etc. as a tip of the cap for the help in keeping them in Minnesota.

But nobody in the legislature has the ing balls to stand up and do something like that to keep the Vikings here.

[SkiUMahLaw]

You couldn't be more off. The Wilfs have done everything the Legislature has asked of them. Wait your turn. We need to do TCF BAnk. Find a partner ... Anoka. Don't put the gun to our heads!! Get in bed with Minneapolis. Make sure you put in enough money.

As for the Dome, Calvin wanted the Dome to guarantee revenue or he was moving to St Pete.

Fund the stadium with Gambling money .. nothing at tax payer expense! Gambling money is all by choice. It already exists and why let the Indians enjoy the entire pie (unless they want to participate).

It is so simple.

I have a hard time saying the legislature can be consistent with anything, much less giving direction to the Wilfs.

(By the way, the Tampa group "bought" the Twins in 1984, which was after they were in the Dome).

I don't disagree that gambling could be a part of any solution, but you are completely underestimating the very strong lobby against gambling interests, both from the morality police and the Native American tribes-- some of it valid, and some not so much. But that's politics, and the Wilfs are getting worked right now politically. Simply saying "they've done everything" implies the Vikes are thus owed something from the public. Were that the case, where do I sign up for mine???

I don't shed any tears for the Wilfs. If they want taxpayers to give them a handout, they have to play by the public's rules. And that means letting the process play itself out. I also don't blame them for considering alternative options; but I don't see any options for the Wilfs other than waiting for the deal to work itself out or selling the team. Los Angeles is truly not an immediate option for at least three years; and if there is another market out there capable of hosting this team, let me know. San Antonio maybe? But if Red couldn't move the team there, does it make that market even viable any longer?

[Hobey Baker]

If it was so simple...it would be done.

You are honestly telling me that with a little bit of authority and about 1/2 hours time that you couldn't figure this thing out??? I listed 5 funding mechanisms .. honestly it isnt that tough and is that simple.

[The Rube]

For funding, make it some sort of voluntary thing: Vikings Beer, Vikings lotto, (insert other purchase or entertainment option where the consumer can CHOOSE to partake in), with the proceeds/taxes going to the stadium.

And have a public vote, something that some in the state/city are trying to circumvent. THAT is what REALLY gets me.

I don't want to pay for a new stadium. I am not a fan of the Vikings. I don't care whether they are here or not. It's nice, sure, but I wouldn't miss them. However, if one of my friends wants them here, and is willing to pay for them, I won't oppose them. Go ahead, send them a contribution.

[dxmnkd316]

The Vikes have waited their turn and got screwed.

Our legislators have had 10 years to find the proper mechanism to fund a stadium for the Vikes. Here are a few:

1. Indian Participation (tax them, have them pay or participate w/ casino)
2. State run Casinos
3. Raceino / slots at Canteburry
4. 1/2 to 1 cent sales tax (state wide preferred but could do county)
5. Increase sales tax on out of town car rentals and hotel stays (see Arizona)

This isn't that difficult and itsn't about supporting Billionaires ... it simply comes down to what is best for the city of MPLS and the state of MN. I view the new football stadium as a welcome additon to the community. I like the fact that we are creating 7-8 thousand contruction jobs. I enjoy having the NFL here! Do you hear many complain about the X, TCF or Target Field???

I really don't understand the 10 years and "waiting their turn" angle. As I see it, the Vikes got their turn with the Dome and it was the Twins and Gophers who had to wait.

The U waited 35 years to have an on-campus stadium.

The Twins (forced into the dome by the Griffiths' lack of cash in the late 1970s) started asking for a new stadium in 1993 and finally got it approved in 2005.

The Vikes finally got the Dome in 1977 after waiting for 16 years at the Met. Now they are waiting on a new Dome?

So I have no sympathy for "waiting for ten years." They got theirs in 1980. They're now last in line. They will wait. They will wait some more. Even when they had a deal ready to go, they still scuttled it. Remember, it was the Vikings that screwed Anoka County in the early 2000s. They wanted a better deal and were willing to wait. So wait they will. Their attitude alone is something akin to, "you owe us" instead of, "let's do this together." I cannot sign onto that approach!

The Vikes seemed to have learned very little from the Twins experience. Pohlad wanted a new stadium done after the 1991 world series, and did about every wrong move in the book until they finally figured it out in the mid-2000s. The biggest problem is that the Vikings have not played the legislature's game-- they've tried to use a rabid fanbase to merely pressure legislators from the outside instead of playing true politics with the necessary funding sources. Increased taxes sound great, except one party won't have taxes increased one dime. Taking money from casinos works great except that the other party won't risk alienating their base for a sports team. Outstate legislators won't support a tax increase because it's a 5 hour drive to see "their" team. Metro legislators need tax revenues to pay for outdated infrastructure that the out of towners use. You aren't going to bridge these philosophical issues by Joe Vikingfan standing up and saying, "But Purple Pride!" You have to really get into bed with both parties and get your hands dirty, and get a bill that both parties hate equally. Then construction and jobs will win out. But that takes time and a dealbroker, and the Vikings keep pounding on the table and saying they have neither. Bull.

I have no objection to the state funding a portion of the stadium. But what has been proposed to date has been a pipe dream for the Vikings at Taxpayer expense, and anything less is deemed "unacceptable." Put it all on the table, including the pricetag!

You and I? We think alike. You state with eloquence what I am thinking.

[Hobey Baker]

The Vikes have waited their turn and got screwed.

Our legislators have had 10 years to find the proper mechanism to fund a stadium for the Vikes. Here are a few:

1. Indian Participation (tax them, have them pay or participate w/ casino)
2. State run Casinos
3. Raceino / slots at Canteburry
4. 1/2 to 1 cent sales tax (state wide preferred but could do county)
5. Increase sales tax on out of town car rentals and hotel stays (see Arizona)

This isn't that difficult and itsn't about supporting Billionaires ... it simply comes down to what is best for the city of MPLS and the state of MN. I view the new football stadium as a welcome additon to the community. I like the fact that we are creating 7-8 thousand contruction jobs. I enjoy having the NFL here! Do you hear many complain about the X, TCF or Target Field???

I really don't understand the 10 years and "waiting their turn" angle. As I see it, the Vikes got their turn with the Dome and it was the Twins and Gophers who had to wait.

The U waited 35 years to have an on-campus stadium.

The Twins (forced into the dome by the Griffiths' lack of cash in the late 1970s) started asking for a new stadium in 1993 and finally got it approved in 2005.

The Vikes finally got the Dome in 1977 after waiting for 16 years at the Met. Now they are waiting on a new Dome?

So I have no sympathy for "waiting for ten years." They got theirs in 1980. They're now last in line. They will wait. They will wait some more. Even when they had a deal ready to go, they still scuttled it. Remember, it was the Vikings that screwed Anoka County in the early 2000s. They wanted a better deal and were willing to wait. So wait they will. Their attitude alone is something akin to, "you owe us" instead of, "let's do this together." I cannot sign onto that approach!

The Vikes seemed to have learned very little from the Twins experience. Pohlad wanted a new stadium done after the 1991 world series, and did about every wrong move in the book until they finally figured it out in the mid-2000s. The biggest problem is that the Vikings have not played the legislature's game-- they've tried to use a rabid fanbase to merely pressure legislators from the outside instead of playing true politics with the necessary funding sources. Increased taxes sound great, except one party won't have taxes increased one dime. Taking money from casinos works great except that the other party won't risk alienating their base for a sports team. Outstate legislators won't support a tax increase because it's a 5 hour drive to see "their" team. Metro legislators need tax revenues to pay for outdated infrastructure that the out of towners use. You aren't going to bridge these philosophical issues by Joe Vikingfan standing up and saying, "But Purple Pride!" You have to really get into bed with both parties and get your hands dirty, and get a bill that both parties hate equally. Then construction and jobs will win out. But that takes time and a dealbroker, and the Vikings keep pounding on the table and saying they have neither. Bull.

I have no objection to the state funding a portion of the stadium. But what has been proposed to date has been a pipe dream for the Vikings at Taxpayer expense, and anything less is deemed "unacceptable." Put it all on the table, including the pricetag!

You and I? We think alike. You state with eloquence what I am thinking.

Again as I stated earlier .. it is factually wrong on many levels!

[dxmnkd316]

Ask Indianapolis how much money they got from the Super Bowl.

How about you ask Indy how much it paid for a stadium first.

[dxmnkd316]

The Vikes have waited their turn and got screwed.

Our legislators have had 10 years to find the proper mechanism to fund a stadium for the Vikes. Here are a few:

1. Indian Participation (tax them, have them pay or participate w/ casino)
2. State run Casinos
3. Raceino / slots at Canteburry
4. 1/2 to 1 cent sales tax (state wide preferred but could do county)
5. Increase sales tax on out of town car rentals and hotel stays (see Arizona)

This isn't that difficult and itsn't about supporting Billionaires ... it simply comes down to what is best for the city of MPLS and the state of MN. I view the new football stadium as a welcome additon to the community. I like the fact that we are creating 7-8 thousand contruction jobs. I enjoy having the NFL here! Do you hear many complain about the X, TCF or Target Field???

I really don't understand the 10 years and "waiting their turn" angle. As I see it, the Vikes got their turn with the Dome and it was the Twins and Gophers who had to wait.

The U waited 35 years to have an on-campus stadium.

The Twins (forced into the dome by the Griffiths' lack of cash in the late 1970s) started asking for a new stadium in 1993 and finally got it approved in 2005.

The Vikes finally got the Dome in 1977 after waiting for 16 years at the Met. Now they are waiting on a new Dome?

So I have no sympathy for "waiting for ten years." They got theirs in 1980. They're now last in line. They will wait. They will wait some more. Even when they had a deal ready to go, they still scuttled it. Remember, it was the Vikings that screwed Anoka County in the early 2000s. They wanted a better deal and were willing to wait. So wait they will. Their attitude alone is something akin to, "you owe us" instead of, "let's do this together." I cannot sign onto that approach!

The Vikes seemed to have learned very little from the Twins experience. Pohlad wanted a new stadium done after the 1991 world series, and did about every wrong move in the book until they finally figured it out in the mid-2000s. The biggest problem is that the Vikings have not played the legislature's game-- they've tried to use a rabid fanbase to merely pressure legislators from the outside instead of playing true politics with the necessary funding sources. Increased taxes sound great, except one party won't have taxes increased one dime. Taking money from casinos works great except that the other party won't risk alienating their base for a sports team. Outstate legislators won't support a tax increase because it's a 5 hour drive to see "their" team. Metro legislators need tax revenues to pay for outdated infrastructure that the out of towners use. You aren't going to bridge these philosophical issues by Joe Vikingfan standing up and saying, "But Purple Pride!" You have to really get into bed with both parties and get your hands dirty, and get a bill that both parties hate equally. Then construction and jobs will win out. But that takes time and a dealbroker, and the Vikings keep pounding on the table and saying they have neither. Bull.

I have no objection to the state funding a portion of the stadium. But what has been proposed to date has been a pipe dream for the Vikings at Taxpayer expense, and anything less is deemed "unacceptable." Put it all on the table, including the pricetag!

You and I? We think alike. You state with eloquence what I am thinking.

Again as I stated earlier .. it is factually wrong on many levels!

And SkiUMahLaw batted your hanging curve into the cheap seats.

[Hobey Baker]

For funding, make it some sort of voluntary thing: Vikings Beer, Vikings lotto, (insert other purchase or entertainment option where the consumer can CHOOSE to partake in), with the proceeds/taxes going to the stadium.

And have a public vote, something that some in the state/city are trying to circumvent. THAT is what REALLY gets me.

I don't want to pay for a new stadium. I am not a fan of the Vikings. I don't care whether they are here or not. It's nice, sure, but I wouldn't miss them. However, if one of my friends wants them here, and is willing to pay for them, I won't oppose them. Go ahead, send them a contribution.

No need for a vote. Did we vote on the Guthrie? NO need for tax if you use gambling! Gambling is voluntary thing. Most wold have voted against X, TCF Bank and Target Field. Now you would get 80% yes after being in and seeing the facilities.

[rowshkex]

As long as Hennepin County pays for it again, go for it.

On a more serious note: on the bright side, if the Vikings leave, we won't have to deal with the pending sensitivity debate regarding an angry Scandinavian as the logo/mascot/name... LA will have to deal with it!

[dxmnkd316]

The approach the Vikings has taken is all wrong. Instead of saying "There is no next year" (I literally laughed out loud at work when I read that line because it's so patently absurd), they should say, "We're going to regroup and actually submit a reasonable proposal and work with the fans and legislature to build a stadium that meets the needs of the team as well as the community."

The Blaine deal was basically a go except the VIkings wanted a better deal and wouldn't guarantee 10 games a year. Reasonable in my mind when you contribute as much as they are asking the state and local governments to contribute.

[The Rube]

For funding, make it some sort of voluntary thing: Vikings Beer, Vikings lotto, (insert other purchase or entertainment option where the consumer can CHOOSE to partake in), with the proceeds/taxes going to the stadium.

And have a public vote, something that some in the state/city are trying to circumvent. THAT is what REALLY gets me.

I don't want to pay for a new stadium. I am not a fan of the Vikings. I don't care whether they are here or not. It's nice, sure, but I wouldn't miss them. However, if one of my friends wants them here, and is willing to pay for them, I won't oppose them. Go ahead, send them a contribution.

No need for a vote. Did we vote on the Guthrie? NO need for tax if you use gambling! Gambling is voluntary thing. Most wold have voted against X, TCF Bank and Target Field. Now you would get 80% yes after being in and seeing the facilities.

I would have voted for the X, against Target Field, and against the Guthrie. I just wish I had a choice.

[Hobey Baker]

And SkiUMahLaw batted your hanging curve into the cheap seats.

Hardly .. He swung and missed. This isn't about infastructure, raising taxes, playing the political game or you owe us garbage. It is about what is good for the state and city of MPLS. Our legislative leaders should understand by now that we are a better city and state because of the Vikings and the NFL. We are a better city by hosting a Super Bowl. We are better cit for hosting NCAA Final 4. We are a better city for hosting major concerts. We are a better city by drawing people in from other states to visit. We simply need a funding mechanism to build the new stadium. That is what it is all about. IMO, gambling is the easiest and most effective way to do it. We have gambling in the state but don't want to infringe on the the tribes. A state run casino and racino would produce a lot of revenue and produce revenue not only for a stadium but education, infastructure and numerous other things.

Lets not forget that the vikings lease is up and a solution needs to be found .. most understood that the dome was not an option. You can't honestly argue that the Gophers needed a stadium before the Vikings.

We will agree to disagree but it is hard to understand your position "that the right thing was done and you now see a sunny beautiful day when all i can see is a terrible storm brewing with a city and state govt not understanding what needs to be done!'

[dxmnkd316]

You can't honestly argue that the Gophers needed a stadium before the Vikings.

lolwut? You sure as hell can.

[Tee09]

You can't honestly argue that the Gophers needed a stadium before the Vikings.

I'd argue that all day long. The Gophers never should have had to move to that crap hole downtown in the first place. I blame the Vikings, as if they hadn't been here, they would have done the right thing and spent the money to fix Memorial Stadium.

[Hobey Baker]

The approach the Vikings has taken is all wrong. Instead of saying "There is no next year" (I literally laughed out loud at work when I read that line because it's so patently absurd), they should say, "We're going to regroup and actually submit a reasonable proposal and work with the fans and legislature to build a stadium that meets the needs of the team as well as the community."

The Blaine deal was basically a go except the VIkings wanted a better deal and wouldn't guarantee 10 games a year. Reasonable in my mind when you contribute as much as they are asking the state and local governments to contribute.

IN all honesty, havent they done that? The have offered to contribute $400 to $500 million. They have partnered first with Anoka and then were told to partner with MPLS and one of its three sites. What hasn't happend is our govt leaders haven't figured out how they will fund their portion of the project. It isn't the Vikes who screwed up but our legislative leaders. MPLS didn't even bid on the deal until after the Vikes announced they were going to St Paul .. think of that. The mayor and its leaders took the team for granted, just as many other in our state govt is doing right now.

I think you are honestly looking at this ass backwards .. the state and local govts need to step up! I will agree that we need a reasonable proposal but it now time for the state govt to tell us how they are going to now solve the problem they have created.

[dxmnkd316]

A $1 billion stadium is a non-starter.

[Tee09]

A $1 billion stadium is a non-starter.

Can't you make a perfectly nice stadium for 60% of that?

[Hobey Baker]

You can't honestly argue that the Gophers needed a stadium before the Vikings.

I'd argue that all day long. The Gophers never should have had to move to that crap hole downtown in the first place. I blame the Vikings, as if they hadn't been here, they would have done the right thing and spent the money to fix Memorial Stadium.

You can but they didn't! Obviously you have a very short memory.The Gophers wanted out of Memorial. The Gophers wanted to move to the dome becasue they thought it would help with recruiting. Attract kids from the warmer climate states to play in the cold.

[dxmnkd316]

A $1 billion stadium is a non-starter.

Can't you make a perfectly nice stadium for 60% of that?

75%

[Beauner]

Ask Indianapolis how much money they got from the Super Bowl.

How about you ask Indy how much it paid for a stadium first.

Yeah, you've stated that they paid 770 million in today's dollars like 40 times.
From Lucas Oil Stadium's Wikipedia page

The stadium is being financed with funds raised by the State of Indiana and the City of Indianapolis, with the Indianapolis Colts providing $100 million. Marion County has raised taxes for food and beverage sales, auto rental taxes, innkeeper's taxes, and admission taxes for its share of the costs. Meanwhile, there has been an increase in food and beverage taxes in the eight surrounding doughnut counties (with the exception of Morgan County) and the sale of Colts license plates.

The Colts provided 100 million dollars. Zygi is quadrupling that number. The Vikings stadium plan calls for 975 million. So the state and whatever else would pay 550 million (approximately, assuming Zygi's number is still 423 million). Indiana is paying 620 million (the stadium, when originally built, cost 720).
But I guess you didn't want that information brought to light.

For those who say that LA is not a realistic option for 3-4 years: LA still has the Rose Bowl, which is ready to host an NFL team for next year if necessary and the Coliseum would probably be right along side it.
In fact, the Rose Bowl has already started preliminary studies about the viability of hosting an NFL team that the league requires before a stadium is OK'd for hosting a team.

The state is screwing with the Vikings hard. The Vikings had their ideal stadium plan in Arden Hills, had a damn-near perfect deal and design, and the state basically said "We aren't even going to listen to your plan if 'MINNEAPOLIS' isn't in the first 3 words." So the Vikings leadership said "Ok, what are the plans for the Minneapolis locations." They didn't really like any of them, but it appeared like the city of Minneapolis was serious, and the state was too. Then they threw together a piss-poor plan and it got laughed off the floor. What do people expect Vikings leadership to do? They've bent over backwards to try to keep the team in Minnesota and get a deal done, already making several concessions. The legislators and our leaders keep ing them like the Gophers did to the Whioux this season.

[Tee09]

You can't honestly argue that the Gophers needed a stadium before the Vikings.

I'd argue that all day long. The Gophers never should have had to move to that crap hole downtown in the first place. I blame the Vikings, as if they hadn't been here, they would have done the right thing and spent the money to fix Memorial Stadium.

You can but they didn't! Obviously you have a very short memory.The Gophers wanted out of Memorial. The Gophers wanted to move to the dome becasue they thought it would help with recruiting. Attract kids from the warmer climate states to play in the cold.

Or I wasn't alive yet...And I've heard the administration wanted out because it was cheaper in the short term to move than it was to fix the stadium.

[Hobey Baker]

You couldn't be more off. The Wilfs have done everything the Legislature has asked of them. Wait your turn. We need to do TCF BAnk. Find a partner ... Anoka. Don't put the gun to our heads!! Get in bed with Minneapolis. Make sure you put in enough money.

As for the Dome, Calvin wanted the Dome to guarantee revenue or he was moving to St Pete.

Fund the stadium with Gambling money .. nothing at tax payer expense! Gambling money is all by choice. It already exists and why let the Indians enjoy the entire pie (unless they want to participate).

It is so simple.

I have a hard time saying the legislature can be consistent with anything, much less giving direction to the Wilfs.

(By the way, the Tampa group "bought" the Twins in 1984, which was after they were in the Dome).

I don't disagree that gambling could be a part of any solution, but you are completely underestimating the very strong lobby against gambling interests, both from the morality police and the Native American tribes-- some of it valid, and some not so much. But that's politics, and the Wilfs are getting worked right now politically. Simply saying "they've done everything" implies the Vikes are thus owed something from the public. Were that the case, where do I sign up for mine???

I don't shed any tears for the Wilfs. If they want taxpayers to give them a handout, they have to play by the public's rules. And that means letting the process play itself out. I also don't blame them for considering alternative options; but I don't see any options for the Wilfs other than waiting for the deal to work itself out or selling the team. Los Angeles is truly not an immediate option for at least three years; and if there is another market out there capable of hosting this team, let me know. San Antonio maybe? But if Red couldn't move the team there, does it make that market even viable any longer?

In isn't about the Lobby!! It is a reality but something that needs and should have been dealt with. The real issue is about finding a solution that solves the problem and we all know Gambling is the answer that both parties are too scared to confront. Dayton got worked more than anyone. His party screwed him and made him look terrible. The Wilfs aren't owed anything other than a solution and a funding mechanism which should have been done already.

As for Tampa, Calvin, the White Sox and numerous other teams used it as its bargaining chip .. which the Twins did before going to the Dome.

[Hobey Baker]

You can't honestly argue that the Gophers needed a stadium before the Vikings.

I'd argue that all day long. The Gophers never should have had to move to that crap hole downtown in the first place. I blame the Vikings, as if they hadn't been here, they would have done the right thing and spent the money to fix Memorial Stadium.

You can but they didn't! Obviously you have a very short memory.The Gophers wanted out of Memorial. The Gophers wanted to move to the dome becasue they thought it would help with recruiting. Attract kids from the warmer climate states to play in the cold.

Or I wasn't alive yet...And I've heard the administration wanted out because it was cheaper in the short term to move than it was to fix the stadium.

whatever way you look at the stadium situation, the Gophers in no way deserved a stadium before the Vikings!

[dxmnkd316]

You can't honestly argue that the Gophers needed a stadium before the Vikings.

I'd argue that all day long. The Gophers never should have had to move to that crap hole downtown in the first place. I blame the Vikings, as if they hadn't been here, they would have done the right thing and spent the money to fix Memorial Stadium.

You can but they didn't! Obviously you have a very short memory.The Gophers wanted out of Memorial. The Gophers wanted to move to the dome becasue they thought it would help with recruiting. Attract kids from the warmer climate states to play in the cold.

Or I wasn't alive yet...And I've heard the administration wanted out because it was cheaper in the short term to move than it was to fix the stadium.

whatever way you look at the stadium situation, the Gophers in no way deserved a stadium before the Vikings!

False.

[Hobey Baker]

whatever way you look at the stadium situation, the Gophers in no way deserved a stadium before the Vikings!

False.

No it is correct. TCF came out of the blue and got funding from the state. Hell building a new baseball facility / Seibert, connecting MPLS and ST Paul by light rail, fixing crosstown / 35 interchange and getting a new scoreboard at Mariucci were all on the list of things to do at the U and the state before TCF Bank.

[Tee09]

whatever way you look at the stadium situation, the Gophers in no way deserved a stadium before the Vikings!

The way I look at it is this: I went to the U and love the Gophers. I never have and never will have any use for the Vikings or their fans. The Vikings provided an avenue for my University to destroy the tradition that every other Big Ten school's students and alumni can share together. It will take another 50 years to make up the time we've lost. The lack of loyalty this encouraged also makes it so a school with 50,000 students that is surrounded by 2 million people can't fill up a very nice, but small, replacement stadium because we have "too many sports options," with the Vikings being the primary distraction. They can't move soon enough.

So you can see why I don't share your opinion on the Vikings stadium.

[dxmnkd316]

The U wanted nothing to do with Lightrail. Nice try though.

[SkiUMahLaw]

The Colts provided 100 million dollars. Zygi is quadrupling that number. The Vikings stadium plan calls for 975 million. So the state and whatever else would pay 550 million (approximately, assuming Zygi's number is still 423 million). Indiana is paying 620 million (the stadium, when originally built, cost 720).
But I guess you didn't want that information brought to light.

For those who say that LA is not a realistic option for 3-4 years: LA still has the Rose Bowl, which is ready to host an NFL team for next year if necessary and the Coliseum would probably be right along side it.
In fact, the Rose Bowl has already started preliminary studies about the viability of hosting an NFL team that the league requires before a stadium is OK'd for hosting a team.

The state is screwing with the Vikings hard. The Vikings had their ideal stadium plan in Arden Hills, had a damn-near perfect deal and design, and the state basically said "We aren't even going to listen to your plan if 'MINNEAPOLIS' isn't in the first 3 words." So the Vikings leadership said "Ok, what are the plans for the Minneapolis locations." They didn't really like any of them, but it appeared like the city of Minneapolis was serious, and the state was too. Then they threw together a piss-poor plan and it got laughed off the floor. What do people expect Vikings leadership to do? They've bent over backwards to try to keep the team in Minnesota and get a deal done, already making several concessions. The legislators and our leaders keep ing them like the Gophers did to the Whioux this season.

Let's not forget that Indy has two pro teams: the Colts and the Pacers. The Twin Cities has four. That means all teams have to share the same pot. It's a lot easier to do when you're splitting it two ways than four.

The Rose Bowl is not a long-term solution for the NFL. Why? Suites, and lack thereof. Unless the City of Pasadena is willing to really ramp up the stadium to those standards, there is no way that the Rose Bowl is anything but a short-term solution. Same thing with the Coliseum in LA. No team will move to LA without a new stadium being approved with shovels in the ground. But with that in mind, we also have two stadiums here that the Vikes could use temporarily-- neither, of course, the Vikings particularly like whatsoever.

Don't forget that the Vikes really pi$$ed a lot of legislators off-- particularly the Anoka County group-- when they pulled out of the Anoka County project almost 10 years ago. Further, Ramsey County wasn't a done deal-- why would St. Paul sign on to essentially fund the stadium in the suburbs? Considering the property tax base in St. Paul is already stretched (thanks to the state government-- a tax-exempt entity-- occupying prime spots throughout the city!), and I think you underestimate the opposition that Arden Hills would have brought up. Minneapolis was truly the only viable spot politically, and the Vikes truly refused to understand that until only recently.

I think everyone agrees that the legislature has to get its act together. But if that happens overnight, it usually results in a big failure that everyone is unhappy with. I would rather see them take their time and do it right. But that takes leadership, and I am just not seeing any legislators with power on either side of the aisle (Kreisel is the big exception, but he has no authority within his party and is a lame duck) willing to stick their necks out and make it happen. For this to get done, you have to get the majority leader and speakers on board to at least make it a worthwhile issue, and they have simply expressed little interest in doing so-- and risk, potentially, giving the governor a {gasp} political victory. Again, that's politics, and the Vikes simply have not played the game well at all.

And TCF was definitely deserved for the U. If the U ever threatens to pick up and move to Los Angeles or Tampa, please call me. Considering TCF was the first athletic building built by the state for a revenue sport at the U since the, oh, 1930s, it was due. (Mariucci was built without state funds!)

[dxmnkd316]

If the U ever threatens to pick up and move to Los Angeles or Tampa, please call me. Considering TCF was the first athletic building built by the state for a revenue sport at the U since the, oh, 1930s, it was due. (Mariucci was built without state funds!)

Oh snap. You just knocked that hanging curve from University Ave to LA. Destroyed.