GOPHERS vs. Denver

[streakygopher]

I read through some of the past 20 posts and I must say there is a lot of criticism about individual players lack of "pride for the M (yawn)", laziness etc. Well, I'm going to postulate that every one of those kids cares about the outcome of each game, they care about their teammates and they care about their individual performances. The only professionals on the ice are the guys wearing suits, and, so far this year, it's Hakstol 1-0-1, Gwodecky 2-0 and Lucia 0-1-1 / 0-2-0.

This team is a mess right now...but the players are doing all they can - and they want it worse than the fans do.

[st8ofhockey]

I read through some of the past 20 posts and I must say there is a lot of criticism about individual players lack of "pride for the M (yawn)", laziness etc. Well, I'm going to postulate that every one of those kids cares about the outcome of each game, they care about their teammates and they care about their individual performances. The only professionals on the ice are the guys wearing suits, and, so far this year, it's Hakstol 1-0-1, Gwodecky 2-0 and Lucia 0-1-1 / 0-2-0.

This team is a mess right now...but the players are doing all they can - and they want it worse than the fans do.

While I agree that the players do care about each game, their performance has clearly demonstrated they aren't caring enough. The finesse team of 5 years ago that could outhustle, beat guys to the puck, win those odd man rushes, etc... is gone, and that stems, IMO, partly from a lack of personal motivation. Like has been mentioned ad nauseum in this thread, these kids have the talent. They were top recruits and award winners at the high school level, and clearly "good" enough to be NHL-draft worthy. So how else to you account for those fundamental mistakes, being caught totally out of position, bad giveaways, passes up the middle of the ice, etc... other than by saying they need to mentally step it up a notch and play at the level they're capable of? While Lucia is by no means above rebuke, he shouldn't be the scapegoat either...

[streakygopher]

While I agree that the players do care about each game, their performance has clearly demonstrated they aren't caring enough. The finesse team of 5 years ago that could outhustle, beat guys to the puck, win those odd man rushes, etc... is gone, and that stems, IMO, partly from a lack of personal motivation. Like has been mentioned ad nauseum in this thread, these kids have the talent. They were top recruits and award winners at the high school level, and clearly "good" enough to be NHL-draft worthy. So how else to you account for those fundamental mistakes, being caught totally out of position, bad giveaways, passes up the middle of the ice, etc... other than by saying they need to mentally step it up a notch and play at the level they're capable of? While Lucia is by no means above rebuke, he shouldn't be the scapegoat either...

...Or, maybe the simple fact that much (not all) of this trumpeted talent isn't performing is proof that they are not capable of raising their game to meet the competition? Quod Erat Demonstrandum

[DMP]

I just heard something interesting on the Don Lucia Show podcast. Denver rolled three lines all weekend maybe giving 1 or 2 shifts to its fourth line. Don said that he wants to develop those 4th line players, all his players, so he doesn't do that. I think he stated in the playoffs he may strip down to three but not now. Also, consider that Denver put Cheverie in both nights. Denver appears to be in playoff mode already. Maybe that's not necessarily a good thing long term. We'll see.

Assuming Minnesota doesn't completely soil the bed linens this season, DU's two wins against us should pay huge dividends in the PWR, and I'm sure that fact didn't escape Gwoz.

[Bigbeer]

I'm not gonna go back and read all this thread...I can guess. We're 4 games in against 2 of the best teams in the country...calm down...I'd rather be playing well at the end of the year than the beginning.

[MAP]

[quote="streakygopher
...Or, maybe the simple fact that much (not all) of this trumpeted talent isn't performing is proof that they are not capable of raising their game to meet the competition? Quod Erat Demonstrandum[/quote]

Streaky, I think you have it. This team is simply not that talented. Who are the goal scorers? Hoeffel...he has two thirds of our total goal production... Schroeder...who else? Maybe Budish can pitch in-I'd like to see him parked in front of the goalie on the power play. The rest of the players look like third and fourth liners who can't step up. I'm not forgetting Fischer and White who have been busts. I was in my usual front row seats on Saturday and I saw effort but no results. That does not translate to talent.

[Cardinal]

Other problem is that the Gophers are playing without its top line.

Stoa, Okposo and OBrien at forward
EJ and Bickel on defense

(ok..maybe not Bickel but there's a prob here anyways)

Really? Wow.

[ScoobyDoo]

I just heard something interesting on the Don Lucia Show podcast. Denver rolled three lines all weekend maybe giving 1 or 2 shifts to its fourth line. Don said that he wants to develop those 4th line players, all his players, so he doesn't do that. I think he stated in the playoffs he may strip down to three but not now. Also, consider that Denver put Cheverie in both nights. Denver appears to be in playoff mode already. Maybe that's not necessarily a good thing long term. We'll see.

Assuming Minnesota doesn't completely soil the bed linens this season, DU's two wins against us should pay huge dividends in the PWR, and I'm sure that fact didn't escape Gwoz.

True, but losing to Denver and UND is not going to kill our PWR either. Losing to UAA this weekend will. As long as you beat the teams you're supposed to beat consistently you are likely to make the NCAA tournament. If you look last year they got swept by Mankato, Wisconsin, and Colorado College last year. All 3 of those teams were not NCAA teams last year. That's what killed them.

[kmd]

True, but losing to Denver and UND is not going to kill our PWR either. Losing to UAA this weekend will. As long as you beat the teams you're supposed to beat consistently you are likely to make the NCAA tournament. If you look last year they got swept by Mankato, Wisconsin, and Colorado College last year. All 3 of those teams were not NCAA teams last year. That's what killed them.

I don't think it's that clear cut whether a loss to a TUC hurts more or less in the Pairwise than a loss to a non-TUC. You really don't know until you look at the final pairwise rankings, and see if you'd get gain more comparisons by having a marginally higher TUC record at the expense of a marginally lower RPI, or vice versa. It seems like there's always some situation at the end of the year where somebody would have been better off being swept by an unranked team in the first round of the conference tourney as opposed to moving on and going 1-1/0-2 against TUC in the finals.

[alignrock]

I call WAY TOO EARLY on the pairwise math.

Let's just score a goal and go from there.

[skatingopher]

If this team continues to suck, I wonder if we should expect to see Schroeder leave mid-season?

[g_manpucker]

If this team continues to suck, I wonder if we should expect to see Schroeder leave mid-season?

Schroeder wasn't drafted by the Snow-ball in New York so I wouldn't worry about that!

[Orion]

If this team continues to suck, I wonder if we should expect to see Schroeder leave mid-season?

Schroeder wasn't drafted by the Snow-ball in New York so I wouldn't worry about that!

Ness?

[Franklin]

I'm not gonna go back and read all this thread...I can guess. We're 4 games in against 2 of the best teams in the country...calm down...I'd rather be playing well at the end of the year than the beginning.

Agree, Hakstol's teams have started out slow in the past and have gone onto the Frozen Four. A couple of years ago there was talk about firing him.

I would much rather see the team continuously improving through the course of the season.

[Greyeagle]

I would much rather see the team continuously improving through the course of the season.

I've only seen a few periods on TV but it certainly sounds like the opportunity for improvement is there.

[momo]

I'm not gonna go back and read all this thread...I can guess. We're 4 games in against 2 of the best teams in the country...calm down...I'd rather be playing well at the end of the year than the beginning.

Agree, Hakstol's teams have started out slow in the past and have gone onto the Frozen Four. A couple of years ago there was talk about firing him.

I would much rather see the team continuously improving through the course of the season.

while i am not ready to call for lucias head i do have to admit that i have become somewhat concerned, just like there is a patten of the sioux starting slow and finishing strong, we seem to have created a pattern of our own over the last 2+ years. as with any company,business,sports franchise,etc. "the speed of the leader determines the rate of the pack" in my years of watching sports i have seen good coaches make average teams very good, and i have seen bad/stale coaches make good teams average or worst, i am not saying that tdon is a bad coach, but there is something not right with the program right now. i don't beleive that a couple/three missed recruits are the problem,maybe some of it, but definately not all, i honestly think that lucias coaching philosophy/style/recruiting changed when his son joined the team,no fault of tonys.

[DMP]

I just heard something interesting on the Don Lucia Show podcast. Denver rolled three lines all weekend maybe giving 1 or 2 shifts to its fourth line. Don said that he wants to develop those 4th line players, all his players, so he doesn't do that. I think he stated in the playoffs he may strip down to three but not now. Also, consider that Denver put Cheverie in both nights. Denver appears to be in playoff mode already. Maybe that's not necessarily a good thing long term. We'll see.

Assuming Minnesota doesn't completely soil the bed linens this season, DU's two wins against us should pay huge dividends in the PWR, and I'm sure that fact didn't escape Gwoz.

True, but losing to Denver and UND is not going to kill our PWR either. Losing to UAA this weekend will. As long as you beat the teams you're supposed to beat consistently you are likely to make the NCAA tournament. If you look last year they got swept by Mankato, Wisconsin, and Colorado College last year. All 3 of those teams were not NCAA teams last year. That's what killed them.

The losses don't kill them in the PWR, but unless we sweep the next series with both UND and DU , we're behind the eightball on comparisons with two teams right out of the chute. If we split, we'd need to overcome them in the remaining three comparison categories to win the comparisons 4-3.

Winning the RPI comparison against two teams you've gone 1-3 against is no easy feat.

My apologies, Alignrock

[skatingopher]

I just heard something interesting on the Don Lucia Show podcast. Denver rolled three lines all weekend maybe giving 1 or 2 shifts to its fourth line. Don said that he wants to develop those 4th line players, all his players, so he doesn't do that. I think he stated in the playoffs he may strip down to three but not now. Also, consider that Denver put Cheverie in both nights. Denver appears to be in playoff mode already. Maybe that's not necessarily a good thing long term. We'll see.

Assuming Minnesota doesn't completely soil the bed linens this season, DU's two wins against us should pay huge dividends in the PWR, and I'm sure that fact didn't escape Gwoz.

True, but losing to Denver and UND is not going to kill our PWR either. Losing to UAA this weekend will. As long as you beat the teams you're supposed to beat consistently you are likely to make the NCAA tournament. If you look last year they got swept by Mankato, Wisconsin, and Colorado College last year. All 3 of those teams were not NCAA teams last year. That's what killed them.

The losses don't kill them in the PWR, but unless we sweep the next series with both UND and DU , we're behind the eightball on comparisons with two teams right out of the chute. If we split, we'd need to overcome them in the remaining three comparison categories to win the comparisons 4-3.

Winning the RPI comparison against two teams you've gone 1-3 against is no easy feat.

My apologies, Alignrock

1-3? Did we win a game I don't know about?

[bonesaw]

I just heard something interesting on the Don Lucia Show podcast. Denver rolled three lines all weekend maybe giving 1 or 2 shifts to its fourth line. Don said that he wants to develop those 4th line players, all his players, so he doesn't do that. I think he stated in the playoffs he may strip down to three but not now. Also, consider that Denver put Cheverie in both nights. Denver appears to be in playoff mode already. Maybe that's not necessarily a good thing long term. We'll see.

Assuming Minnesota doesn't completely soil the bed linens this season, DU's two wins against us should pay huge dividends in the PWR, and I'm sure that fact didn't escape Gwoz.

True, but losing to Denver and UND is not going to kill our PWR either. Losing to UAA this weekend will. As long as you beat the teams you're supposed to beat consistently you are likely to make the NCAA tournament. If you look last year they got swept by Mankato, Wisconsin, and Colorado College last year. All 3 of those teams were not NCAA teams last year. That's what killed them.

The losses don't kill them in the PWR, but unless we sweep the next series with both UND and DU , we're behind the eightball on comparisons with two teams right out of the chute. If we split, we'd need to overcome them in the remaining three comparison categories to win the comparisons 4-3.

Winning the RPI comparison against two teams you've gone 1-3 against is no easy feat.

My apologies, Alignrock

1-3? Did we win a game I don't know about?

RPI takes in to account emotional victories, didn't you know that?

[dxmnkd316]

RPI takes in to account emotional victories, didn't you know that?

that's the big argument for the krach. It takes those into account and compensates accordingly.

[DMP]

True, but losing to Denver and UND is not going to kill our PWR either. Losing to UAA this weekend will. As long as you beat the teams you're supposed to beat consistently you are likely to make the NCAA tournament. If you look last year they got swept by Mankato, Wisconsin, and Colorado College last year. All 3 of those teams were not NCAA teams last year. That's what killed them.

The losses don't kill them in the PWR, but unless we sweep the next series with both UND and DU , we're behind the eightball on comparisons with two teams right out of the chute. If we split, we'd need to overcome them in the remaining three comparison categories to win the comparisons 4-3.

Winning the RPI comparison against two teams you've gone 1-3 against is no easy feat.

My apologies, Alignrock

1-3? Did we win a game I don't know about?

RPI takes in to account emotional victories, didn't you know that?

I was trying (and apparently making a poor effort at explaining) to say is that assuming we split the next series against DU, we would be 1-3 against them. Amidst all the despair I forgot we actually salvaged a tie against UND, and a split against them would put us 1-2-1 against the dreaded foes from sugar beet country.