Garth Snow's comments

[ShootThePuck]

"I was under the impression he left on his own because Lucia didn't offer his kid a scholarship???? Of course this 3rd/4th/ or even 5th hand speculation based on something somebody may or may not have overheard in bar while having over consumed.....so take it for what it's worth"



Nope. He was given a choice. Quietly resign and get a one year severance package or be fired and get nothing.

[ShootThePuck]

by Hammy » Tue 10/27/09 12:14 pm

ShootThePuck wrote:
I think the under development has been exacerbated by the loss of Mike Guentzel. Lucia’s winning percentage with Guentzel on staff was 61%. Without Guentzel, he is at 41%. I have inside information that Guentzel organized and ran the practices.

Hammy wrote:
Let's be honest, Guentzel was here for some of the problems too. Not to mention, Guentzel was a part of Woog's staff... are you forgeting how the program looked those last few seasons with Woog?

ShootThePuck wrote:
Looking back, letting Guentzel go after 2007-2008 was probably a knee jerk reaction to one bad season (44.6% winning percentage in 2007-2008.)

Hammy wrote:
MG's departure was not because of one season of results. I can assure you of that.


Looking back through the seasons:

Wins
With Guentzel
00-01 27
01-02 32
02-03 28
03-04 27
04-05 28
05-06 27
06-07 31
07-08 19

Without Guentzel
08-09 17

Honestly, I don't see a problem with 2000-2007. Any program in the country would be happy with those win totals. So, there really wasn't much of a problem until 07-08 when everything that could go wrong did go wrong.

As for attributing to Guentzel to Woog, I don't know. After listening to Woog all of these years on the tv, I am simply amazed we won as many games as we did under is reign. I think the talent of the teams carried Woog.

I agree on the health issue for last season as a major factor, but I think the issue goes deeper. Talent alone is no longer enough to succeed in the WCHA. The coach must have a major impact in driving the players. Last year, his health impacted that drive. But, there is more going on here. I am certain the agents are part of the problem, too.

I agree that Guentzel departure was many years in coming. But, I don't think Lucia understood how much Guentzel was doing and how big of an impact he had on the program. I doubt Lucia's ego will ever allow him to admit the benefits of Guentzel. Hopefully, Guentzel will get a shot back in the NCAA and prove his abilities.

[ScoobyDoo]

As for attributing to Guentzel to Woog, I don't know. After listening to Woog all of these years on the tv, I am simply amazed we won as many games as we did under is reign. I think the talent of the teams carried Woog.

You think Woog wasn't a good coach? He may have got pushed out at the end and never won the big one but his run of 12 NCAA berths, four WCHA regular season titles, three WCHA playoff titles, and 6 frozen four appearances speak for themselves.

[MNMD]

[quote="sagard"]
Wheeler was VERY good at the "U", just unloved by some. /quote]

Thanks for mentioning Wheeler. A great example for our recent struggles at the "U". Goal totals of 9, 18, and 15 hardly qualify as a VERY good career at the University of MN. Especially not for a 5th overall selection in the NHL draft!! These numbers would be VERY good for a 3rd or 4th line center, not a premium recruit.

Wheeler's obvious talent was then showcased by a superb rookie year for the Bruins (21G, 24A, +36 +/-), playing against the best players in the world.

I'm not a hater. On the contrary, I want to see these guys succeed in the Maroon and Gold, not just after they leave here.

[Elm Grove Gopher]

No offense to anyone, but why do we care what Garth Snow says? Geez. Let this thread go.

Garth Brooks may be a better GM.

[ShootThePuck]

Scooby wrote:
You think Woog wasn't a good coach? He may have got pushed out at the end and never won the big one but his run of 12 NCAA berths, four WCHA regular season titles, three WCHA playoff titles, and 6 frozen four appearances speak for themselves.


When a coach is in place, we really don't get to know them very well at all. The tv interviews are brief and unrevealing. The paper only gives single sentence quotes. I actually liked him when he coached and thought he did well. Now that he has been in the booth and I have listened to him for 10 years, I am suprised the team did as well as they did. I would suspect the players were often confused. His record is solid, but I still believe the talent carried him.

[ScoobyDoo]

When a coach is in place, we really don't get to know them very well at all. The tv interviews are brief and unrevealing. The paper only gives single sentence quotes. I actually liked him when he coached and thought he did well. Now that he has been in the booth and I have listened to him for 10 years, I am suprised the team did as well as they did. I would suspect the players were often confused. His record is solid, but I still believe the talent carried him.

You're in the minority. Both on your opinion of him as a coach, and as a commentator. I feel confident in saying that he's forgotten more about hockey then you'll ever know.

[vaneksnipe]

Elm Grove Gopher wrote:
No offense to anyone, but why do we care what Garth Snow says? Geez. Let this thread go.

Garth Brooks may be a better GM.

The intent of my original post had zero to do with my endorsement of Garth Snow as a hockey genius or even a competent NHL GM for that matter. I just thought it was interesting that myself and many others blew him off a few years back and thought he was a blowhard shooting his mouth off. So my question was..... Could he be correct in his analysis? I think he nailed it personally and it is not just an isolated incident with Okposo.

[Hammy]

As for attributing to Guentzel to Woog, I don't know.

An argument that alludes to MG being a big part of the success for the good seasons yet disregards his accountability on the teams he helped coach that were not as good is not very balanced. That is political double talk that doesn’t hold water… especially when his responsibilities in both situations were essentially the same.

If you want to give him a certain amount of credit for good seasons, that is fine. But then he deserves an equal “credit” for the years that were not so good (whether he was an assistant for Woog or Lucia). You can’t have it both ways where he only gets the glory but none of the blame.

Don’t get me wrong… I like MG a lot. He was always very nice to me so I have nothing negative to say about him as an individual. I also think he is a good coach. But let’s be a little more balanced….

[Handyman]

Scooby wrote:
You think Woog wasn't a good coach? He may have got pushed out at the end and never won the big one but his run of 12 NCAA berths, four WCHA regular season titles, three WCHA playoff titles, and 6 frozen four appearances speak for themselves.


When a coach is in place, we really don't get to know them very well at all. The tv interviews are brief and unrevealing. The paper only gives single sentence quotes. I actually liked him when he coached and thought he did well. Now that he has been in the booth and I have listened to him for 10 years, I am suprised the team did as well as they did. I would suspect the players were often confused. His record is solid, but I still believe the talent carried him.

Woog may sound crazy on tv now, but when he first took over on the broadcasts he was aces. I think age is catching up to him. When he talks about strategy and the "Xs and Os" there is no one better but his mind tends to wander. I still say some of the best games I watched were when he and Sauer were in the booth together telling stories. (or anyone hell even Greg Sheppard!)

Woog has won everywhere he coached whether it was with the Vulcans (2 Junior National Titles) or with South St. Paul (4 State Tourny bids), and his nearly 400 wins at the U is far and away the best. The man is an excellent coach and I can honestly say I have learned more from the tidbits he gives during broadcasts than I have from my friends who played hockey all their life. Woog is only looked down upon at all because Skarda hit the post...if that shot goes in he is probably still coaching today.

As for the MG dead horse...how much did CC improve when he went there...

[Elm Grove Gopher]

Having used Garth Snow's name 3 times in the opening paragraph of your posting, IMO you cited Garth Snow's opinion to validate your own.

That being said, Snow's ability as a GM is very relevant. You could have cited many other hockey people whose abilities are far superior but those individuals have not (or at least have not felt strongly enough to publicly share) the same opinion shared by Snow.

Listen..I think Lucia has issues. Citing Snow to validate (any of) these positions provides a weak argument. His credibility is almost non-existent.

Just my two cents worth...and as I was the one to say let this thing go, I am retiring from this thread.

[Cardinal]

Wheeler was VERY good at the "U", just unloved by some. /quote]

Thanks for mentioning Wheeler. A great example for our recent struggles at the "U". Goal totals of 9, 18, and 15 hardly qualify as a VERY good career at the University of MN. Especially not for a 5th overall selection in the NHL draft!! These numbers would be VERY good for a 3rd or 4th line center, not a premium recruit.

Wheeler's obvious talent was then showcased by a superb rookie year for the Bruins (21G, 24A, +36 +/-), playing against the best players in the world.

I'm not a hater. On the contrary, I want to see these guys succeed in the Maroon and Gold, not just after they leave here.

Wheeler was playing with guys like Evan Kaufmann and Ben Gordon while he was here, so that's a big reason why his numbers weren't great ... not to mention the fact he had to play out of position. Put Wheeler on a wing with Schroeder in the middle and Blake would have done just as well or better than Stoa did last year playing with Schroeder.

[ShootThePuck]

Scooby wrote:
You're in the minority. Both on your opinion of him as a coach, and as a commentator. I feel confident in saying that he's forgotten more about hockey then you'll ever know.



I will agree with you, it is an opinion and certainly not a fact.

But, I am not certain what my hockey knowledge vs his has to do with anything. Considering his chosen profession vs. mine, he should have more knowledge. Based on your logic, then no one should comment on anything unless they have the greatest knowledge of anyone.

I will say it, again. I liked him when he coached, but based on my listening to him for 10 years, I would suspect his players were often confused. And, I think his players carried him. It's just my opinion. You have the right to disagree and you could certainly be right.

[Melvin]

Scooby wrote:
Woog has won everywhere he coached whether it was with the Vulcans (2 Junior National Titles) or with South St. Paul (4 State Tourny bids), and his nearly 400 wins at the U is far and away the best. The man is an excellent coach and I can honestly say I have learned more from the tidbits he gives during broadcasts than I have from my friends who played hockey all their life. Woog is only looked down upon at all because Skarda hit the post...if that shot goes in he is probably still coaching today.ere...

People forget that Wooger was the third in wins in NCAA history. You don’t get to that level by being a hack.

[Dolphin275]

Scooby wrote:
Woog has won everywhere he coached whether it was with the Vulcans (2 Junior National Titles) or with South St. Paul (4 State Tourny bids), and his nearly 400 wins at the U is far and away the best. The man is an excellent coach and I can honestly say I have learned more from the tidbits he gives during broadcasts than I have from my friends who played hockey all their life. Woog is only looked down upon at all because Skarda hit the post...if that shot goes in he is probably still coaching today.ere...

People forget that Wooger was the third in wins in NCAA history. You don’t get to that level by being a hack.

I agree, you don't have that much success and not know what the Heck your doing..

Maybe it's because I'm originally from South Saint Paul and I'm bias...

[ShootThePuck]

Hammy wrote:
"An argument that alludes to MG being a big part of the success for the good seasons yet disregards his accountability on the teams he helped coach that were not as good is not very balanced. That is political double talk that doesn’t hold water… especially when his responsibilities in both situations were essentially the same.

If you want to give him a certain amount of credit for good seasons, that is fine. But then he deserves an equal “credit” for the years that were not so good (whether he was an assistant for Woog or Lucia). You can’t have it both ways where he only gets the glory but none of the blame.

Don’t get me wrong… I like MG a lot. He was always very nice to me so I have nothing negative to say about him as an individual. I also think he is a good coach. But let’s be a little more balanced…."



MG certainly had the same title under both, but his role was very different. I don't know MG personally, but a good friend of mine has know MG for nearly as long as he as been coaching. They have kids who are in activities together. MG's role with Lucia was very involved. The day to day practice schedule was his responsibility and full cycle recruiting of certain players fell to him as well. So, I was not intentionally being unbalanced. I was simply assessing MG's role under the two coaches based on the information I was given. Obviously, second hand information is not always reliable. But, I do believe my source.

[ShootThePuck]

Handyman wrote:
"As for the MG dead horse...how much did CC improve when he went there..."

Honestly, we don't know what his duties were at CC. Was his reponsible for planning and running the practices or not? All we can do is speculate.

Clearly, something is not write at the U. There is certainly more than one cause.

[5 O.T.]

Vaneksnipe said:
So my question was..... Could he be correct in his analysis? I think he nailed it personally and it is not just an isolated incident with Okposo.[/quote]


I think you have a faulty premise. Coach Lucia's job first and foremost is to win at Minnesota. With that in mind he and his coaching staff have to make coaching decisions based upon what they have at any given time. They cannot be deciding what to do based upon what some NHL GM wants for his draft pick.

Concerning Okposo's situation I disagree with you on his first season here. He had an outstanding season and was given a wide variety of responsibilities that season. 40 points. Hardly a ho-hum season as you have characterised it. Maybe you forget but he totally shut down Jonathon Toews in the WCHA play-off championship game and in the West Regional. He may not have been playing what you deem to be the desired role as seen by Garth Snow but he was doing what was best for the team under the circumstances.

The following season it was apparent from the beginning his heart wasn't in it. He wanted to move on. Had it not been for what he had accomplished the previous season he would not have been able to make that jump.

I also have a different take on your contention that players aren't developing at Minnesota in order to move on to the professional game. Coach Lucia's first season was 99-00. In looking at that season through last seasons graduating class there have been 18 players that have played at least one game in the NHL. There have also been another 32 former Gophers that played for Coach Lucia that have moved on to play at some level of pro hockey in the AHL, ECHL, CHL etc. That is 50 total players to move on to play at some level of pro hockey. Based upon the evidence it is a totally assinine statement that players aren't developing at Minnesota in order to advance to a higher level. Very few schools have had that sort of success.

What you are doing in making your faulty argument regarding this years team is projecting something about each player that is un-knowable at this juncture. For pete's sake we are four games into a season that lasts six months.

Lastly, I could give a sh*t about pro hockey. I'm a college hockey fan. Period. What is best for the Gophers right now is what I care about. I also think that this team will develop into a good college team. That's all that matters to me.

Remember, NoDak started the season last year with three straight losses. They eventually won the league title. Chill out Vaneksnipe.

[monty]

I think in some respects people are overreacting.............two series into the season is not exactly a large sample size to judge anything in regard to what they can or can't do.

Obviously the goals have been tough to come by early but I have a difficult time thinking it is going to remain that way. Particularly with the skill players on defense and their ability to QB a PP unit.

This was never more evident than at the end of regulation against UND. They totally carried the play and dominated for all of 5 minutes. My only concern has been and still is.......why didn't they play like that for 60 minutes both nights??? The same can be said against DU as well. Is it coaching? Is it because they're just going through the motions for 55 minutes? I've never bought it to the whole "When the games on the line (that player or players) really grab another gear or flip a switch"! I just think that is complete BS. If you have 'another gear' or can 'flip a switch' then do it when the puck is dropped for the first time.....not when there is 5 minutes left and you need 2 to tie.

Duey the mental part of the game came into play the last 5 minutes of that game. The team was playing well and ND feared that if they make a defensive mistake they would lose, ND changed the way they played which allowed the our team to look like they were playing in a different gear when in actually ND was allowing us to play the way we wanted too.

I had this comment from a hockey parent between the 2nd and 3rd periods of the semifinal 16U state championship last year:

Stillwater parent: We played the our best 10 minutes of the season to start the game and we make 1 mistake and your team scores.

There team let down after that, why couldn't they play like the first 10 minutes for the whole game, it is a mental issue.

The mental toughness of Gopher teams for the past few years can be seriously questioned.

[Greybeard]

Well, you can make an argument whether or not UND or DU "owns" the Gophers, but UND is the ONLY team we've scored on this year!

[5 O.T.]

While I have held nothing back regarding my feelings toward Lucia I agree that anything Snow says about hockey should be taken w/ a grain of salt. I don't think the problem is w/ the development of the players we get as much as it is w/ getting those players in the first place. Clear as mud?

Simply put....why is it that on our blue line we have Wehrs, Shack, Fischer, and Lofquist (P-U!!)while players like Gardiner, Ramage, Prosser, Blood, Gleason, McDonagh, Fienhage, Mattson, and Forbort all playing/signing w/ other schools. I understand that Lucia can't get all the best recruits but is it too much to ask that The U of M get better ones (Even if they're not from MN??)?? And don't even get me started on offense....Kristo, Hanowski, Lasch, VandeVelde, Vossberg....that list could go on and on


We're just getting our handed to us on the recruiting front.

And the scary thing is that this doesn't change overnight and will probably get worse before it gets better.....DU and UND are off to great starts. Tradition aside...If you're 16-17 years old where do you want play?

And don't be surprised if we see and Michael Dorr or two if things don't turn around by the Holiday Classic.

Lets compare three players you have cited and three Gophers for an apples to apples comparison. Three defensemen for the Sioux and three for the Gophers. Two sophmores and one freshman from each team. Blood, Fienhage and Gleason vs. Ness, Lofquist and Leddy.

08-09
Blood 31 games 0-1-1
Fienage 9 games 0-1-1

Ness 37 games 2-15-17
Lofquist 35 games 1-3-4

Leddy 1st round pick
Gleason 5th round pick

Based upon last seasons results the Gophers players were much more effective than the two for NoDak. A combined total of 72 games compared to 40 for Blood and Fienhage. Granted total points don't tell the entire story but they are tangible results.

As for this season, Blood has looked pretty good. A big jump from last season from what I have seen so far. Fienhage has yet to play according to the stats I've seen. His name doesn't even show up. Ness has looked ok and Lofquist is hurt so at this point it's a push concerning the returnees.

Leddy has looked good and from what I saw Gleason looked pretty good but I would take Leddy if I had to choose. I'd say the edge goes to the Gophers.

I'd also suggest taking a look at Chris Heisenberg's site in order to see who has committed to play for the Gophers in the next few years. There is a lot of highly thought of players already committed. Not the dire situation that you are portraying.

[ShootThePuck]

5 O.T. wrote:
"Lastly, I could give a sh*t about pro hockey. I'm a college hockey fan. Period. What is best for the Gophers right now is what I care about. I also think that this team will develop into a good college team. That's all that matters to me. "


I agree. Now is the opportunity for Lucia to show what he can do. This is the ultimate development moment for the coach.

[5 O.T.]

Handyman said:
Woog is only looked down upon at all because Skarda hit the post...if that shot goes in he is probably still coaching today.

[/quote]

I was at that game and I recently watched a tape of that game as well. Woog was totally outcoached . The Gopher power play was totally owned by Harvard's penalty kill and Woog was unable to adjust. Gopher power play was about 30% for the season. Cleary figured out how to stop them and that really was the difference in my opinion.

Do you remember that Dean Williamson and Tom Pederson hit pipes during that game in addition to Skarda's? Too much is made of Skarda's pipe. It never should have gotten to OT in the first place. The Gophers had their chances.

Woog's time was up at Minnesota long ago. He had a tremendous run but no way he is still coaching if that shot by Skarda goes in.

[st8ofhockey]

I would add, by the same logic, a handful of "what if's" and bounces going the other way, and Lucia's resume is one of the best out there, and no one in his right mind would be questioning him:

*Disclaimer: I cannot stand using past accomplishments as a "resume" of the here and now (ie 7>5). What's happened has happened, and while having a storied program is great, you can throw all the "on paper" matchups out the window when the puck drops.

-Recall in '07, coming off winning the Broadmoor and McNaughton, we take the Sioux to OT. Just a bounce, and we have a season most teams would kill for, whether or not we go on to win the NC

-I look at 2004 at the team that lost to tUMD out in Boston and really think about "what if". That team was loaded; both the Potulny brothers, Vanek, Ballard and a loaded senior class fresh off the NC. I'll put that on par with the '96 team as the best Gopher squad not to win a NC (yes, that includes '89)

-I hate to even bring it up, but if HC had gone the other way (we had the lead in the 3rd), we lose the next night to the Sioux, and chalk it up as one that coulda gone either way. Instead, thanks in large part to our friends out west, that loss was a black eye that lingered for a few seasons

[dxmnkd316]

I gave up on this page of the thread since I can't tell who said what and who's quoting who...

[Orion]

Scooby wrote:
You think Woog wasn't a good coach? He may have got pushed out at the end and never won the big one but his run of 12 NCAA berths, four WCHA regular season titles, three WCHA playoff titles, and 6 frozen four appearances speak for themselves.


When a coach is in place, we really don't get to know them very well at all. The tv interviews are brief and unrevealing. The paper only gives single sentence quotes. I actually liked him when he coached and thought he did well. Now that he has been in the booth and I have listened to him for 10 years, I am suprised the team did as well as they did. I would suspect the players were often confused. His record is solid, but I still believe the talent carried him.

Woog may sound crazy on tv now, but when he first took over on the broadcasts he was aces. I think age is catching up to him. When he talks about strategy and the "Xs and Os" there is no one better but his mind tends to wander. I still say some of the best games I watched were when he and Sauer were in the booth together telling stories. (or anyone hell even Greg Sheppard!)

Woog has won everywhere he coached whether it was with the Vulcans (2 Junior National Titles) or with South St. Paul (4 State Tourny bids), and his nearly 400 wins at the U is far and away the best. The man is an excellent coach and I can honestly say I have learned more from the tidbits he gives during broadcasts than I have from my friends who played hockey all their life. Woog is only looked down upon at all because Skarda hit the post...if that shot goes in he is probably still coaching today.

As for the MG dead horse...how much did CC improve when he went there...

Spot on. Really pay attention to Woog and what he says and how he says it. He has a hard time getting his thoughts together when talking about current events or current players. Try to talk about something hockey related 20 years ago and he is sharp as a tack. It reminds me of some of the people I have seen go through the early stages of Alzheimers. I wouldn't be surprised if we hear he has it sometime in the next couple of years.

[dxmnkd316]

Scooby wrote:
You think Woog wasn't a good coach? He may have got pushed out at the end and never won the big one but his run of 12 NCAA berths, four WCHA regular season titles, three WCHA playoff titles, and 6 frozen four appearances speak for themselves.


When a coach is in place, we really don't get to know them very well at all. The tv interviews are brief and unrevealing. The paper only gives single sentence quotes. I actually liked him when he coached and thought he did well. Now that he has been in the booth and I have listened to him for 10 years, I am suprised the team did as well as they did. I would suspect the players were often confused. His record is solid, but I still believe the talent carried him.

Woog may sound crazy on tv now, but when he first took over on the broadcasts he was aces. I think age is catching up to him. When he talks about strategy and the "Xs and Os" there is no one better but his mind tends to wander. I still say some of the best games I watched were when he and Sauer were in the booth together telling stories. (or anyone hell even Greg Sheppard!)

Woog has won everywhere he coached whether it was with the Vulcans (2 Junior National Titles) or with South St. Paul (4 State Tourny bids), and his nearly 400 wins at the U is far and away the best. The man is an excellent coach and I can honestly say I have learned more from the tidbits he gives during broadcasts than I have from my friends who played hockey all their life. Woog is only looked down upon at all because Skarda hit the post...if that shot goes in he is probably still coaching today.

As for the MG dead horse...how much did CC improve when he went there...

Spot on. Really pay attention to Woog and what he says and how he says it. He has a hard time getting his thoughts together when talking about current events or current players. Try to talk about something hockey related 20 years ago and he is sharp as a tack. It reminds me of some of the people I have seen go through the early stages of Alzheimers. I wouldn't be surprised if we hear he has it sometime in the next couple of years.

And even if he does, he has more hockey knowledge in his finger than Garth Snow has.

[Orion]

Scooby wrote:
You think Woog wasn't a good coach? He may have got pushed out at the end and never won the big one but his run of 12 NCAA berths, four WCHA regular season titles, three WCHA playoff titles, and 6 frozen four appearances speak for themselves.


When a coach is in place, we really don't get to know them very well at all. The tv interviews are brief and unrevealing. The paper only gives single sentence quotes. I actually liked him when he coached and thought he did well. Now that he has been in the booth and I have listened to him for 10 years, I am suprised the team did as well as they did. I would suspect the players were often confused. His record is solid, but I still believe the talent carried him.

Woog may sound crazy on tv now, but when he first took over on the broadcasts he was aces. I think age is catching up to him. When he talks about strategy and the "Xs and Os" there is no one better but his mind tends to wander. I still say some of the best games I watched were when he and Sauer were in the booth together telling stories. (or anyone hell even Greg Sheppard!)

Woog has won everywhere he coached whether it was with the Vulcans (2 Junior National Titles) or with South St. Paul (4 State Tourny bids), and his nearly 400 wins at the U is far and away the best. The man is an excellent coach and I can honestly say I have learned more from the tidbits he gives during broadcasts than I have from my friends who played hockey all their life. Woog is only looked down upon at all because Skarda hit the post...if that shot goes in he is probably still coaching today.

As for the MG dead horse...how much did CC improve when he went there...

Spot on. Really pay attention to Woog and what he says and how he says it. He has a hard time getting his thoughts together when talking about current events or current players. Try to talk about something hockey related 20 years ago and he is sharp as a tack. It reminds me of some of the people I have seen go through the early stages of Alzheimers. I wouldn't be surprised if we hear he has it sometime in the next couple of years.

And even if he does, he has more hockey knowledge in his finger than Garth Snow has.

How dare you bring this conversation full circle and back on topic!

[dxmnkd316]

And even if he does, he has more hockey knowledge in his finger than Garth Snow has.

How dare you bring this conversation full circle and back on topic!

Wow, that's the first time I've ever been accused of of attempting to bring order to a thread.

[SEGopherGuy]

Comparing points scored by defensemen is like Staring at the Sun cause the moon will be there later. Look at the +/- of a Defensemen, if Ness has 2pts on Special teams but is still -3 on the night I would say thats bad. Give me Defensemen that can keep guys from scoring anyday over a guy that QBs the PP but is an even strength liability.

Last year Ness was -9 , -3 already this year.

Lofquist -6 last yr, -1 this yr

Last year Blood +10, this yr +1

Gleason this yr +3


Another thing Brooks "Name on the Front of the Jersey" comment reigns true "These guys Play at the U, they don't look like they Play FOR THE U!" They know they are headed for greener pastures, why should they bleed maroon and gold when they can save it for the NHL?

[29Gopher]

There are 2 types of players...lets face it..Bonin, Crowley, reggie berg etc. are prototype college players. Great 4 years and can't adapt to pro!

Then there is Okposo, Vanek, Wheeler, Goligoski etc. Who seem to excel beyond expectations their rookie seasons in the NHL, and beyond.

I think IMO it is hard to develop a college player into a pro with 2 years at college level.

Garth has a small but good point. Okposo has great talent and potential, to say Lucia was not developing insn't fair. Okposo is playing with whatever players are around in his "college years"

Pro is exactly that....wide age variance and talent from all over the world. So to let Okposo play with other PROS, of course he will develop better and faster.

Garth thinks certain players (in college) should be at a certain level, if they are not...he rips the programs they are playing for.

[gopher_ears]

It's hard to argue with Snow's record of success as GM of the Islanders:

Code: Select all

2006-2007  40-30-12
2007-2008  35-38-9
2008-2009  26-47-9
2009-2010  1-4-5 (so far)

Talk about development!

[DrPP]

It's hard to argue with Snow's record of success as GM of the Islanders:

Code: Select all

2006-2007  40-30-12
2007-2008  35-38-9
2008-2009  26-47-9
2009-2010  1-4-5 (so far)

Talk about development!

So true, he totally sucks. Lucia is awesome. He knows everything about midwest college hockey...

Clear as day...
2006-07 U. of Minnesota NCAA 1 pt/gm Lucia master tutelage
2007-08 U. of Minnesota NCAA .61 pt/gm Lucia master tutelage
2008-09 New York Islanders NHL .6 pt/gm Snow stupidness
2009-10 New York Islanders NHL .72 pt/gm Snow stupidness

Everyone knows it's harder to play in the WCHA than the NHL. Oh, and traditionally in hockey the profits from tickets go to corrupt and worthless administrators and tenured coaches not the actual entertainers (see those great teams from the CCCP). I hate those capitalist pigs in the NHL.

[dxmnkd316]

It's hard to argue with Snow's record of success as GM of the Islanders:

Code: Select all

2006-2007  40-30-12
2007-2008  35-38-9
2008-2009  26-47-9
2009-2010  1-4-5 (so far)

Talk about development!

So true, he totally sucks. Lucia is awesome. He knows everything about midwest college hockey...

Clear as day...
2006-07 U. of Minnesota NCAA 1 pt/gm Lucia master tutelage
2007-08 U. of Minnesota NCAA .61 pt/gm Lucia master tutelage
2008-09 New York Islanders NHL .6 pt/gm Snow stupidness
2009-10 New York Islanders NHL .72 pt/gm Snow stupidness

Everyone knows it's harder to play in the WCHA than the NHL. Oh, and traditionally in hockey the profits from tickets go to corrupt and worthless administrators and tenured coaches not the actual entertainers (see those great teams from the CCCP). I hate those capitalist pigs in the NHL.

Holy sh . What crawled up your ass?

[DrunkHockeyGuy]

Scooby wrote:
You think Woog wasn't a good coach? He may have got pushed out at the end and never won the big one but his run of 12 NCAA berths, four WCHA regular season titles, three WCHA playoff titles, and 6 frozen four appearances speak for themselves.


When a coach is in place, we really don't get to know them very well at all. The tv interviews are brief and unrevealing. The paper only gives single sentence quotes. I actually liked him when he coached and thought he did well. Now that he has been in the booth and I have listened to him for 10 years, I am suprised the team did as well as they did. I would suspect the players were often confused. His record is solid, but I still believe the talent carried him.

For the love of god, USE THE QUOTE BUTTON and learn how to work a message board.

Scooby wrote: My butt smells funny

Hammy wrote: I am all that is gopher hockey recruiting god.

Handy wrote: I hate everyone's opinion

Jupter wrote: I used to be a fat planet, but ever since I got on Nutra system, I lost 40 lbs.


I can't take it anymore!

[trixR4kids]

Bahahahahah ^^

[Slap Shot]

Holy sh . What crawled up your ass?

Made me laugh.

[JB]

So true, he totally sucks. Lucia is awesome. He knows everything about midwest college hockey...

Clear as day...
2006-07 U. of Minnesota NCAA 1 pt/gm Lucia master tutelage
2007-08 U. of Minnesota NCAA .61 pt/gm Lucia master tutelage
2008-09 New York Islanders NHL .6 pt/gm Snow stupidness
2009-10 New York Islanders NHL .72 pt/gm Snow stupidness

Everyone knows it's harder to play in the WCHA than the NHL. Oh, and traditionally in hockey the profits from tickets go to corrupt and worthless administrators and tenured coaches not the actual entertainers (see those great teams from the CCCP). I hate those capitalist pigs in the NHL.

This completely ignores the fact that Okposo didn't want to play here his Sophomore year. When the Islanders didn't sign him and he had to return, he didn't care any longer. That might have contributed to his decline in points per game. Hardly a fault of Lucia that a player was upset that an NHL team didn't sign him.

To me, it just shows how Snow was the main problem here all along. He didn't think Okposo was ready to play in the NHL after his Freshman year, so he didn't sign him and let him return to Minnesota. This upset Okposo enough that he didn't put forth much effort - which affected his development. Snow realized his mistake at that point, tried to deflect criticism by saying that Lucia can't develop players and signed him mid-season - essentially correcting the mistake that Snow made by not signing him during the summer.

[jallengarry]

It's hard to argue with Snow's record of success as GM of the Islanders:

Code: Select all

2006-2007  40-30-12
2007-2008  35-38-9
2008-2009  26-47-9
2009-2010  1-4-5 (so far)

Talk about development!

So true, he totally sucks. Lucia is awesome. He knows everything about midwest college hockey...

Clear as day...
2006-07 U. of Minnesota NCAA 1 pt/gm Lucia master tutelage
2007-08 U. of Minnesota NCAA .61 pt/gm Lucia master tutelage
2008-09 New York Islanders NHL .6 pt/gm Snow stupidness
2009-10 New York Islanders NHL .72 pt/gm Snow stupidness

Everyone knows it's harder to play in the WCHA than the NHL. Oh, and traditionally in hockey the profits from tickets go to corrupt and worthless administrators and tenured coaches not the actual entertainers (see those great teams from the CCCP). I hate those capitalist pigs in the NHL.

Holy crap! I love this post. I mean, I never thought of it that way...but you're right. Any coach who's ever had a decline in these stats from one year to the next must suck. I'm sure two data points is all we need to make strong inferences. I bet if you looked at Scotty Bowman's record, or any great coach....they always win/end with more pts. than they did the year before...every year. Then, once they win all their games...they pull off some real coaching excellence to somehow make the number keep climbing.

My fav part is the second paragraph. So witty...I mean I'm sure most people are gonna mistake it for confusing drivel and misdirected anger but that's only because they aren't smart enough to get the depth of you. Keep 'em coming man! And thanks for teaching me to write in this nasty, sarcastic tone...I'm sure it will add a lot to the discussion here.

[ScoobyDoo]

Scooby wrote: My butt smells funny

What's funny is I did say that.

[Loc85]

Scooby wrote: My butt smells funny

Hammy wrote: I am all that is gopher hockey recruiting god.

Handy wrote: I hate everyone's opinion

Jupter wrote: I used to be a fat planet, but ever since I got on Nutra system, I lost 40 lbs.


I can't take it anymore!

DHG: My board is boring...I think I'll stir the pot over at GPL and watch it explode.

[Jupiter]

Jupter wrote: I used to be a fat planet, but ever since I got on Nutra system, I lost 40 lbs.

I wish......

[DrunkHockeyGuy]

Scooby wrote: My butt smells funny

Hammy wrote: I am all that is gopher hockey recruiting god.

Handy wrote: I hate everyone's opinion

Jupter wrote: I used to be a fat planet, but ever since I got on Nutra system, I lost 40 lbs.


I can't take it anymore!

DHG: My board is boring...I think I'll stir the pot over at GPL and watch it explode.

Stop being crabby. By the way, with your teams start, I don't need to do much stirring, you folks are handling that just fine on your own.

I guess I shouldn't rip into a guy who signs up and those are his 1st posts.

[Loc85]

Scooby wrote: My butt smells funny

Hammy wrote: I am all that is gopher hockey recruiting god.

Handy wrote: I hate everyone's opinion

Jupter wrote: I used to be a fat planet, but ever since I got on Nutra system, I lost 40 lbs.


I can't take it anymore!

DHG: My board is boring...I think I'll stir the pot over at GPL and watch it explode.

Stop being crabby. By the way, with your teams start, I don't need to do much stirring, you folks are handling that just fine on your own.

I guess I shouldn't rip into a guy who signs up and those are his 1st posts.

Sorry to get you going, I should have ended my comment with .
I admire your ability to get some folks here so bent up to the point of exploding.

[DrunkHockeyGuy]

Scooby wrote: My butt smells funny

Hammy wrote: I am all that is gopher hockey recruiting god.

Handy wrote: I hate everyone's opinion

Jupter wrote: I used to be a fat planet, but ever since I got on Nutra system, I lost 40 lbs.


I can't take it anymore!

DHG: My board is boring...I think I'll stir the pot over at GPL and watch it explode.

Stop being crabby. By the way, with your teams start, I don't need to do much stirring, you folks are handling that just fine on your own.

I guess I shouldn't rip into a guy who signs up and those are his 1st posts.

Sorry to get you going, I should have ended my comment with .
I admire your ability to get some folks here so bent up to the point of exploding.