Twins Baseball 2009

[Composer]

In defense of Ulger's late stop sign if Jeter makes the throw to first - which was a slight possibility - Punto scores.

Also, most all 3rd base coaches are way down the line on plays like that and Ulger has been since day one, Punto needs to pick him up as he's approaching the bag.

Once Jeter bobbled the ball, he had no play at first.

And once Jeter bobbled the ball, Punto heard the crowd reaction and thought the ball got through. That's why he barreled around third so hard. Still the wrong play, but that was his explanation, and it makes sense (meaning I understand the events).

[Dances With Gophers]

At least we have that awesome play-in game to remember. AND there's a brand spankin' new stadium to break in next season!

The series with the Yanks? *yawn* I'm now fully convinced that the BEST thing that could happen to MLB right now is if the Yankees win the next 10 World Series in a row and just absolutely demolish every and any small market team that comes across their path. Seriously. Then, and probably ONLY then, will we see (maybe) any significant change in revenue-sharing plans/salary cap structure. Until then, MLB will continue cruising around with its anti-trust exempt status. I love baseball. And I love the Twins. But I can't stand the MLB. Go figure that one out.

[Ben]

I didn't expect this team to be in the playoffs, so I should be pleased. Hell, I went into this series thinking it would be a quick, painless sweep. Today, I feel sick to my stomach because the Twins should be up 2-1. Baserunning that would make someone playing Mickey Mantle blush, Nathan's dead arm (hopefully...), and some very questionable management decisions (and I'm being nice) killed us. In the end, the Yankees took advantage of our stupidity and put us away like they should have.

[jallengarry]

Its a bit of a leap to say should be up 2-1. Even if they score Punto from third...which is no guarantee when the game before we couldn't get a guy in from 3rd with no outs...but even if its only tied and I'll take their pen over ours any day.

But I agree with the sentiment that these games left scares on my sports heart. I mean sure it has been ripped out, pulverized and s**t on by the Viks and Gopher FB over the years with some inexplicable losses...but I always told myself those two were like the sports version of some uber hot woman who you knew was bad for you but you couldn't resist so you just lived with her behavior. The Twins had always been my sweet,faithful companion. Steady, consistent and often going out of their way to pleasantly surprise you when least expected. Now they too have forsaken me.

[Handyman]

There was no excuse for Punto running but as I said before I am not going to make him the goat for this one. Nothing is a guarantee when you know our bullpen is there ready to make things go from good to bad with one pitch. Who was coming in if the game is tied at 2-2...better yet who is coming in if they lead 3-2?

Game 3 was not Gardy's best managing performance of all time but beyond his retarded obsession with using every pitcher in the bullpen (sometimes I think he puts pitchers out there just because he thinks they get lonely) at the end I am not sure any of that really matters. What I would have done different though (not saying it is right but these are off the top of my head) was pinch hit for Morales after Delmon's double (in reality Morales should not have seen the field in this game because he was a black hole in the DH spot) with anyone who can make any contact at all, after Punto's double I have Span bunt (this was an easy friggin call to make and would have negated any Punto screw up and I trust Cabrera in that situation to at least lift it deep enough to tie it or put it in play where they have a shot) and I either leave Guerrier in there to pitch the 9th or I just bring in Nathan. None of those decisions are why the team lost but it seems that once Pavano gave up the lead Gardy didn't know what to do.

Was it disappointing to watch the team shoot themselves in the foot AGAIN against the Yankees..of course it is but the team overachieved even getting to the playoffs so I am not going to be upset right now. If this same squad takes the field next year Day 1 against the Red Sux, then I will be upset.

Why is this loss worse than any of the others? I would say the 2006 sweep at the hands of the A's after the Twins went bonkers to win the Central at the end was much harsher than this loss. That A's team was not better than the Twins but the whole team forgot to play baseball after the regular season ended. That scarred me...this series was playing with house money because by all accounts they were DOA 10 days ago.

[JWG]

But I agree with the sentiment that these games left scares on my sports heart. I mean sure it has been ripped out, pulverized and s**t on by the Viks and Gopher FB over the years with some inexplicable losses...but I always told myself those two were like the sports version of some uber hot woman who you knew was bad for you but you couldn't resist so you just lived with her behavior. The Twins had always been my sweet,faithful companion. Steady, consistent and often going out of their way to pleasantly surprise you when least expected. Now they too have forsaken me.

That's a little harsh. They came back from 7 down and 3 down in the last 4 to win the division. That's amazing. Similar to how I feel about hockey - winning your division/conference is much more impressive than going on a streak to win a tournament. I think this team absolutely out peformed itself, especially in the final month. They made some bad mistakes and some poor decisions, but overall I didn't expect a playoff appearance and am please as peaches to have had one. There were people in our lineup the last month that normally wouldn't make a Twins roster much less another MLB teams as we worked through injuries. I applaud them for their great effort and accomplishment. Best record against the AL Central, Best record against the Detroit Tigers, Go Twins!

Expecting them to beat the Yankees is almost like expecting The Gopher Football Team to beat Florida in a the National Title game (without having to win to get there). Or expecting the '84 Olympic Hockey Team to beat Russion in a best of 7 series. Sure, you'll win once in awhile (and if you're spot on, maybe even when you need to), but the odds are that you won't. And we couldn't overcome the odds. I still say Hazzah! to the Twins for a great season.

[jallengarry]

I guess I thought it was fairly obvious it was written mostly in jest. I don't REALLY feel scared or forsaken, nor do I consider the Twins my lover. Generally, I agree it was a great last month and change to the season and I am proud of the team; pretty electrifying and tense at times. Hell of a lot better than meaningless baseball. However, it did hurt to be in the games and come up short the way we did. I'm just saying the Twins have generally been SO good about not playing/losing that way, and fairly good at generally surprising and overachieving, so I'm not used to it.

[Handyman]

I am with you on most of that but you are out of your mind if you think winning the Division is more impressive than winning the World Series. This isnt the NCAA Hockey Tournament here beating a bunch of mediocre teams to win the division is not even in the same LEAGUE as making the ALCS let alone the World Series. That is like saying winning the MAC conference in football is more impressive than winning National Title. (or winning the CHA is more impressive than winning the Hockey National Title, or winning the NFC North is more impressive than winning the Super Bowl) That is the talk of fans who dont think their team should ever or will ever have a shot.

If the team can't compete why the hell should we pay money to go watch them? So we can feel good about ourselves because the media pretends to love us for five minutes? Sorry but if the whole point isnt to try and go for the gusto (i.e. win a title that people outside the midwest care about) and all we care about is Division Titles and nothing else than we are pretty pathetic. At some point you have to expect more because they sure as hell are charging more.

This year I am happy they won because in all honesty they had no business doing it but what is the point of being excited for playoff baseball if you dont even care if your team wins?

[streakygopher]

The last month of the regular season was a sweet little ride and one that nobody expected to take. However, regardless of whether or not they "should have been there", the fact is the Twins were there standing all alone atop the AL Central. As the de facto division champ it is their job to go out and compete for a playoff series win. The team was the little red engine that could until they started wetting their pants against the yankees. The little red engine went off the track and smashed into the station, taking with it the hearts of all those believers who thought that once, maybe just this once, David could slay goliath.

Yes, the Yankees have a monster payroll and yes the Twins are a "small market" club; but at the end of the day, the Twins had a decent chance to beat the Yankees this time - and they blew it.

[Hobey Baker]

This will sound funny to say but it was a fun month of Twins baseball but a very frustrating year as a whole.

Last night and game 2 of the ALDS were kind of like April - August, frustrating and agonizing.

[frozen4champs]

The small ball, station to station baseball worked against the Royals, Sox, and Tigers, but the Yankees are , well, the YANKEES. Love them or hate them, they get paid the big bucks to WIN. Jeter and Posada are prime time players, and they made the Twins look like rookies. I loved the run the Twins went on, but without Crede and Morneau, the Twins had ZERO shot to beat the Yanks.

[Hobey Baker]

The small ball, station to station baseball worked against the Royals, Sox, and Tigers, but the Yankees are , well, the YANKEES. I loved the run the Twins went on, but without Crede and Morneau, the Twins had ZERO shot to beat the Yanks.

I just can't agree with your last statement. We had a legit shot at winning game 2 (2 run lead in the 9th and the missed call by the ump) and we could have easily tied the game last night. If we are up 2-1, anything could have happened! We were in this series but it is the little mistakes that we made that cost us the games. Base running errors, walks, lack of moving runners (bases loaded no outs) that cost us these last two games. Our starters did their jobs. The Twins simply didn't play well enough (especially some of our big time guys like Nathan and Kubel) to close these games out even with the salary gap between the two teams.

I do agree with Danny B. If the Twins spend a little extra, the margin for error isn't so small!!! They choose for it to be this way and have conditioned the masses to drink the cool aide. We are 3-16 in our last 19 playoff games. Is this successful? Three and outs and one and dones aren't what it is all about is it? Twins need to rethink their strategy some and tweek the model a bit.

[Handyman]

That is what I have been saying for 6 years but I always get told I am a horrible fan because of it. I usually get told the Twins cant afford to spend like the big market clubs even though I never say they should. (see: earlier in the thread) It is one thing when you have a farm system loaded to bear with talent but right now we have no one and half the people on the roster now probably shouldnt be in the majors and yet we were still good enough to win the Division and play pretty damned good in 2 out of 3 games in the playoffs. Imagine what the team could do with just a bit more money spent in the right places. I think the fans have earned that.

The Twins have a few tradeable commodities right now and they should make some deals. As I said before if the roster is the same opening day at Target Field the masses should be up in arms!

[dxmnkd316]

Pretty good article by Reusse about the twins:

Link

[gopherguy06]

Pretty good article by Reusse about the twins:

Link

I read that this morning and agree it is a good analysis of the team and the needs. I like his top ten moves to make:

1. Make sure Carlos Gomez has a complete list of housing options in Rochester, N.Y., so that he will be comfortable while spending the 2010 season as the Red Wings' starting center fielder.

2. Get out from under the last half of Nathan's large contract (two years, $22.5 million) by trading him. The Cubs might take him.

3. The way the Twins treat a closer, it's the easiest job in baseball. Eddie Guardado did it successfully with a slider that broke two inches. With Nathan gone, tell Jose Mijares to show up in shape and he gets the first shot.

And who knows? You might have funky Pat Neshek back as the righthanded half of a closing duo.

4. Speaking of shape: Tell Francisco Liriano to show up 15 pounds lighter in Florida to demonstrate a renewed commitment to pitching, or suggest that he rent the other half of the duplex occupied by Gomez in Rochester.

5. Don't spend any money at third base. Give every inning and every at-bat in exhibitions to Danny Valencia and Luke Hughes; the guy who does the best at the end of March gets the job.

6. Install Nick Punto as the everyday second baseman. He's good all over the infield but he's a difference-maker defensively at second base.

7. Find a shortstop. Cabrera brought a lot to the team in two months, but his average fielding could turn subpar on the Target Field grass.

8. Jon Rauch has a contract. Matt Guerrier remains valuable. Beyond that, it's time to rebuild the meat of the bullpen with guys with serious out pitches, such as Anthony Slama's slider, Alex Burnett's fastball and Carlos Gutierrez's sinker.

9. Play Delmon Young every day -- even day games after night games -- and if he doesn't hit 25 home runs and drive in 85, dump him.

10. Sign a starting pitcher ... a real one, not a Livan.

[sunbone]

1)A lot of the things Reusse talks about make sense on paper. I'm all for Gomez staying in Rochester, or better yet in somebody elses organization. But then who are your other outfielders?

2)I'm fine with trading Nathan...but what are you going to get for him? A lot of people throw out the "I'd trade him" line but they never fill in the other half of the equation. As bad as Nathan was over the last month I wouldn't just give him away for nothing.

3) No chance. Mijares? Ugggh. Neshek? Hasn't pitched in 2 years. If you do move Nathan you better have better closer options than that.

4) Absolutely agree. I would count on him starting in Rochester, and if he makes the team you are pleasantly surprised.

5) Agree, you have to hope Valencia has progressed enough to take this job.

6 & 7) Nope, we need established players at both spots. If Punto played all season like he did the last month I'd say okay. But he never does, he is too inconsistent at the plate. And Cabrera by next year might have to roll the ball from the hole to get it there. Punto and Harris are both good bench players, and nothing more. It won't happen but they need new starters at both spots.

8- Can't disagree with any of that. A lot here depends on what happens with Nathan.

9) They do need to find out what they have with this guy. Either see what value he has in the offseason, or like Reusse says throw him out there every day and see if the last month was a fluke or not.

10) Just one? Blackburn, Slowey and Baker are all okay middle of the rotation guys. After that what do you have? Duensing showed promise. I wouldn't count on Liriano at this point. And I will be completely shocked if Perkins is on the roster next year after his bs.

Did we really win the division this year? This team has a lot of holes to fill.

[Handyman]

Why does everyone assume Neshek will ever pitch again? Better yet why do people assume he will be anywhere near effective? It is bad enough when pitchers start having arm issues but a side arm guy...with the amount of time he has missed and the pressure he puts on his arm the odds are stacked against him.

Beyond Nathan the only tradeable asset I think they have is Morales and I would definitely see what they can get for him out there.

I agree with pretty much everything sunbone said

[dxmnkd316]

Why does everyone assume Neshek will ever pitch again? Better yet why do people assume he will be anywhere near effective? It is bad enough when pitchers start having arm issues but a side arm guy...with the amount of time he has missed and the pressure he puts on his arm the odds are stacked against him.

Beyond Nathan the only tradeable asset I think they have is Morales and I would definitely see what they can get for him out there.

I agree with pretty much everything sunbone said

I disagree with the part about morales, however, there is a catch and it depends on what they do with Mauer in the offseason. I think you know where I'm going with this. Mauer is the best catcher in the league. But, how long do we want to let him take a beating behind the plate when his bat is so much more valuable?

I'm not saying do anything in the near future, but when do you move him to an infield position like 3B?

[Handyman]

When he wants to worry about signing him first not if/when he is going to switch. (which I doubt will be any time soon)

[monty]

When Joe is ready to move from catching, he is more likely to move to 1st Base than 3rd. Valencia could be established at 3rd by that time and Morneau could be moved to DH. Kubel is the odd man out here. Traded Kubel now for pitching and sign someone else to DH, or convince Cuddy to switch to 3rd until Valencia or Joe is ready, and play Span, Gomez and Young in the outfield. Under the last situation I would switch Young to right and put Span in left.

Trading Nathan is not an option unless management knows Mauer is okay with this. If Joe thinks Nathan is still a viable closer and you trade him he may not sign here.

Either of these 2 scenarios, shows one thing the Twins are hostage to what Mauer wants.

[Handyman]

Yeah well if Billy Smith had a spine (and could be trusted to do anything besides sit in his office and read emails) he would tell Mauer to shove it and say it is better to think about the team than what is best for one player. Mauer hasn't signed yet and hasn't indicated he is ready to so it isnt up to him what the Twins should do. If they can trade a player and get good value for him (I dont mean draft picks or players that may be good down the line but value for next season obviously) then screw whether he is Mauer's buddy you make the deal. If Mauer is the saint everyone makes him out to be he will be happy when the team is better and just give his buddy a call on the phone every night.

If it was anyone but Baby Jesus you all would agree with me on this too. This is professional sports not Little League. No one player is worth more than the team.

[murrster]

Yeah well if Billy Smith had a spine (and could be trusted to do anything besides sit in his office and read emails) he would tell Mauer to shove it and say it is better to think about the team than what is best for one player. Mauer hasn't signed yet and hasn't indicated he is ready to so it isnt up to him what the Twins should do. If they can trade a player and get good value for him (I dont mean draft picks or players that may be good down the line but value for next season obviously) then screw whether he is Mauer's buddy you make the deal. If Mauer is the saint everyone makes him out to be he will be happy when the team is better and just give his buddy a call on the phone every night.

If it was anyone but Baby Jesus you all would agree with me on this too. This is professional sports not Little League. No one player is worth more than the team.

You're exactly right, Handy. I hope the Twins don't mess this situation up like the T'Wolves did with Kevin Garnett. We can't let one player, even if he is the best player on the team, force the team's hand. Further, if Mauer proves to be too difficult to please, trade him. Yeah, it would suck and the fans would be all over the ownership, but he's our most valuable commodity. We can't let him walk like we did with Hunter. That said, Bill Smith completely botched the Johan trade, so I don't have much confidence in him. Let's just hope Mauer understands that the betterment of the team is what is most important.

[sunbone]

Why are people so anxious to move Mauer from catcher? He is the best defensive catcher in the game. And he is what, 26 years old? The day may come when he moves, but that discussion is way down the road IMO. This team has holes but the last thing you want to do is mess with the things that are working. No, you don't move Mauer to 1st or third, you don't mess with Cuddyer and move him to 3rd, and hell no you don't trade Kubel unless you get a hell of a lot back.

And you definitely don't let Mauer or anyone else dictate what roster moves you make. And I'm sure Mauer wants to win. But be realistic people, this is going to come down to money. The Twins need to find out now what kind of dollars it is going to take to sign him, and if they aren't going to do it they need to move him this offseason. And if they do they need to get a king's ransom for him. They can't let this play out into next season and bungle it yet again.

[Bushwood Gopher]

Amen 100x over to everything Handy & sunbone just said.

Re: the specific point of Mauer getting moved from catcher--why? Sunbone is exactly right--he's 26 years old and 5 full seasons into his career. Why is this even a point of discussion right now? I hear the words "abuse" and "pounding" being bandied about and it just makes me shake my head--how does he take any more of a beating being a catcher than the other 29 starting catchers in MLB? He's the best catcher in the game--it seems fairly straight-forward to me that he continues to catch until his body prevents him from doing so. At which point DH, 3rd or 1st are all sensible options.

And in terms of Nathan being traded or not traded on the basis of it jiving with Joe Mauer, this is the same kind of crap that happened with the Wolves when KG was here. Players play and gm's manage--combining roles doesn't usually work...

[murrster]

And in terms of Nathan being traded or not traded on the basis of it jiving with Joe Mauer, this is the same kind of crap that happened with the Wolves when KG was here. Players play and gm's manage--combining roles doesn't usually work...

Hey, I just said that (I tried to at least). C'mon Bushwood, give me some credit!

[dxmnkd316]

Amen 100x over to everything Handy & sunbone just said.

Re: the specific point of Mauer getting moved from catcher--why? Sunbone is exactly right--he's 26 years old and 5 full seasons into his career. Why is this even a point of discussion right now? I hear the words "abuse" and "pounding" being bandied about and it just makes me shake my head--how does he take any more of a beating being a catcher than the other 29 starting catchers in MLB? He's the best catcher in the game--it seems fairly straight-forward to me that he continues to catch until his body prevents him from doing so. At which point DH, 3rd or 1st are all sensible options.

And in terms of Nathan being traded or not traded on the basis of it jiving with Joe Mauer, this is the same kind of crap that happened with the Wolves when KG was here. Players play and gm's manage--combining roles doesn't usually work...

I don't think anyone said that he should be moved anytime soon. I just said at some point in the future. The part about him taking the abuse is that eventually it's going to take its toll on his offensive skills. I never said that would be soon, and I know you didn't say I did either. But the point is that they should just be careful on how they construct the plans for Mauer down the road.

[Bushwood Gopher]

And in terms of Nathan being traded or not traded on the basis of it jiving with Joe Mauer, this is the same kind of crap that happened with the Wolves when KG was here. Players play and gm's manage--combining roles doesn't usually work...

Hey, I just said that (I tried to at least). C'mon Bushwood, give me some credit!

Epic fail on my part murrster--somehow I didn't see your post sandwiched between Handy's and sunbone's otherwise I would've. We were obviously on the same page though!

[gator]

This could have been posted before, but pretty cool new feature at Target Field.

The Twins new homerun sign at Target Field. The hands will light-up and shake when the Twins hit a homerun.

[streakygopher]

This could have been posted before, but pretty cool new feature at Target Field.

The Twins new homerun sign at Target Field. The hands will light-up and shake when the Twins hit a homerun.

HOLY CRAP! That was my idea except mine was for an even bigger one in the outfield somewhere and after a homer...the twins reach out and shake hands...with clankering, steam and chain rattles...reminiscent of the 20's...

[dxmnkd316]

I don't remember who called this, but Joe Nathan (and Justin Morneau) underwent "cleanup" surgeries on tuesday to have bone chips removed. Not sure how much or if this affected him, but I know it didn't help...

[freighttrain]

Adam McCalvy of MLB.com reports that the Brewers have traded J.J. Hardy to the Twins for Carlos Gomez.

[theskillz]

Just saw the trade as well.. looks like it is true. Gomez for Hardy.

[Zwak]

Adam McCalvy of MLB.com reports that the Brewers have traded J.J. Hardy to the Twins for Carlos Gomez.

Strib reporting it too.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/69381532.html

[Neely]

Adam McCalvy of MLB.com reports that the Brewers have traded J.J. Hardy to the Twins for Carlos Gomez.

Strib reporting it too.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/69381532.html

As a Brewer fan this one escapes me. I realize Hardy isn't developing like they had hoped and they have somone waiting to take his spot but Gomez isn't going to help. He's that typcial Brewer player from years past that isn't going to walk. In addition he isn't going to help when he does hit the ball.

I'm also a Twins fan (is that even possible?) so I'm hopeful Hardy can return to what he did a few years ago and turn into the player the Brewers had hoped he would be. I think it makes sense for the Twins, not the Brewers. At least not short term. Gomez may figure it out at some point but he is just painful to watch at the plate.

[MAP]

I'm also a Twins fan (is that even possible?) so I'm hopeful Hardy can return to what he did a few years ago and turn into the player the Brewers had hoped he would be. I think it makes sense for the Twins, not the Brewers. At least not short term. Gomez may figure it out at some point but he is just painful to watch at the plate.

Yes, Neely, you can be a fan of both since they are in different leauges. Interleague play may lead to some schizophrenic episodes, though.

On the trade: looks like a good deal for the Twins...firms up shortstop, eases the traffic jam in the outfield and Neely is right, it got to be very painful to watch Gomez at the plate as much fun as it was to watch him in the field.

[ScoobyDoo]

I'm also a Twins fan (is that even possible?) so I'm hopeful Hardy can return to what he did a few years ago and turn into the player the Brewers had hoped he would be. I think it makes sense for the Twins, not the Brewers. At least not short term. Gomez may figure it out at some point but he is just painful to watch at the plate.

Yes, Neely, you can be a fan of both since they are in different leauges. Interleague play may lead to some schizophrenic episodes, though.

On the trade: looks like a good deal for the Twins...firms up shortstop, eases the traffic jam in the outfield and Neely is right, it got to be very painful to watch Gomez at the plate as much fun as it was to watch him in the field.

True, he sucks at the plate but no one bunts for singles like Gomez does.

[Thirty-Four]

Too bad the Brew Crew was too smart to take Delmon...

[Neely]

Too bad the Brew Crew was too smart to take Delmon...

I heard a Weeks for Delmon trade was in the works. They are waiting to announce so the Brewer fans don't get overexcited about the new offensive potential awaiting them in 2010.

[sagard]

After being pretty down about the dominance of the rich HGHers, I love baseball again!

[Composer]

I'm also a Twins fan (is that even possible?) so I'm hopeful Hardy can return to what he did a few years ago and turn into the player the Brewers had hoped he would be. I think it makes sense for the Twins, not the Brewers. At least not short term. Gomez may figure it out at some point but he is just painful to watch at the plate.

Yes, Neely, you can be a fan of both since they are in different leauges. Interleague play may lead to some schizophrenic episodes, though.

On the trade: looks like a good deal for the Twins...firms up shortstop, eases the traffic jam in the outfield and Neely is right, it got to be very painful to watch Gomez at the plate as much fun as it was to watch him in the field.

Neely--A Brewers fan here told me that Hardy is a better 3rd baseman than shortstop. Do you know anything about this? Might they be bringing Hardy in to play 3rd?

[Hobey Baker]

Too bad the Brew Crew was too smart to take Delmon...

Thirty-Four,

So you think Go Go is better than Delmon? Please explain why you think this.

Everyone,

What is Hardy's defense like .. range, glove and arm?

[Blindside]

What is Hardy's defense like .. range, glove and arm?

If you trust Sabermetrics, he is gold: above average across the board. I like the move.

[Dances With Gophers]

I love that we gave up ZERO pitching prospects to make this deal go through!

[Handyman]

Maybe I missed something...but arent you all a little too excited that we traded one guy who batted 220 last year for another guy who batted 220 last year? Not to mention we now guarantee that Cabrera is gone meaning we lose one of the guys who actually can hit to insert a guy who cant bat his own weight?

Yes I know he was an all star previously but the only good thing about this move is that they dumped Go Go's worthless ass. Adding another guy at the bottom of the order who can't hit 250 isnt what the team needs.

[sunbone]

Maybe I missed something...but arent you all a little too excited that we traded one guy who batted 220 last year for another guy who batted 220 last year? Not to mention we now guarantee that Cabrera is gone meaning we lose one of the guys who actually can hit to insert a guy who cant bat his own weight?

Yes I know he was an all star previously but the only good thing about this move is that they dumped Go Go's worthless ass. Adding another guy at the bottom of the order who can't hit 250 isnt what the team needs.

Did you think we were going to get Sabatthia and Jeter for Go Go? Worst case we traded garbage for garbage. And I don't know if you actually watched Cabrera in the field, but his arm is fried and he has Roy Smalley like range and was not a legitimate option to be an every day player next year. I know 90% of posters here think defense doesn't count and that Brendan Harris is an option, but I expect better from you Handy.

[oldpirate33]

any chance of bringing cabrera back and moving him to second? his diminishing range and arm strength might not be as much of a liability there. he seemed to finish up the season well at the plate, had some clutch hits and gave the team some good at bats. i'm not sure he can keep that up over the long haul, but he does bring some energy and experience to the line up.

[Handyman]

Maybe I missed something...but arent you all a little too excited that we traded one guy who batted 220 last year for another guy who batted 220 last year? Not to mention we now guarantee that Cabrera is gone meaning we lose one of the guys who actually can hit to insert a guy who cant bat his own weight?

Yes I know he was an all star previously but the only good thing about this move is that they dumped Go Go's worthless ass. Adding another guy at the bottom of the order who can't hit 250 isnt what the team needs.

Did you think we were going to get Sabatthia and Jeter for Go Go? Worst case we traded garbage for garbage. And I don't know if you actually watched Cabrera in the field, but his arm is fried and he has Roy Smalley like range and was not a legitimate option to be an every day player next year. I know 90% of posters here think defense doesn't count and that Brendan Harris is an option, but I expect better from you Handy.

Why is it always "All Star or crap" with the Kool Aid drinkers? I don't expect them to get anything for Go Go but then again they didn't exactly have to trade him today did they? I would have preferred they traded Go Go for someone who could, oh I dont know, hit BETTER than Go Go...I mean jesus sunbone you could bat 229 This is making a move for making a move's sake and it takes a decent average out of a lineup that was half filled with subaverage hitters at the end of the year.

Yeah yeah yeah defense wins championships we all know that that is why the Twins won all those titles in the 90's when they made no errors but couldn't hit. I love a good defensive team as much as the next guy, but you still need to be able to score runs to win. Now as I said getting rid of Go Go is addition by subtraction so if you want to go with that fine, but don't make out it to be anything more than that...JJ Hardy doesn't improve our defense that much that it offsets his putrid, Go Go like numbers at the plate...and unlike Go Go he will play everyday.

Its not a bad move because it gets rid of one of the many dead weight players the Twins have...but it is nothing more than that. This is the type of move that shouldn't even be newsworthy...lets hope the rest of this offseason makes that true in our case as well.

[Slap Shot]

Why is it always "All Star or crap" with the Kool Aid drinkers? I don't expect them to get anything for Go Go but then again they didn't exactly have to trade him today did they? I would have preferred they traded Go Go for someone who could, oh I dont know, hit BETTER than Go Go...I mean jesus sunbone you could bat 229 This is making a move for making a move's sake and it takes a decent average out of a lineup that was half filled with subaverage hitters at the end of the year.

Hardy is a career .262 hitter, including .277 three years ago and .283 two years ago with 50 HRs and 154 RBIs combined with a better career OBP, SLG and OPS than Gomez. Gomez is a career .246 with 12 HRs and 99 RBIs in three years, has nearly as many SOs as Hs, doesn't steal nearly as many bases or even get on base nearly as much as he should and is average in the field. Never mind the guy wastes more ABs than any Twin in history. The Twins needed to get rid of someone in the OF and I see nothing wrong with this trade. Now if they also get rid of Young for something decent I'll be even happier.

[jallengarry]

I like the trade. Yeah last year stats were similar but at least Hardy has a Hx of putting up numbers. Go Go has yet to prove that he can and is looking more and more like the light may never come on at the plate. I like the kid and hope he succeeds though. And he's far better than average in the field slapshot...

Composer: I was interested in the option of him playing 3rd too but it looks like a no go. The Twins site says they called O.Cab to tell him they probably wouldn't pursue him. I heard LaVelle talk about bringing Creede back until he gets injured 70 games into the season or going with a platoon over there and hoping Valencia is ready later.

[Composer]

I like the trade. Yeah last year stats were similar but at least Hardy has a Hx of putting up numbers. Go Go has yet to prove that he can and is looking more and more like the light may never come on at the plate. I like the kid and hope he succeeds though. And he's far better than average in the field slapshot...

Composer: I was interested in the option of him playing 3rd too but it looks like a no go. The Twins site says they called O.Cab to tell him they probably wouldn't pursue him. I heard LaVelle talk about bringing Creede back until he gets injured 70 games into the season or going with a platoon over there and hoping Valencia is ready later.

Thanks--Yes, as I read about things it seemed to be clear he was in for SS. I expect him to to better than 229 next year--maybe not the 270's he's done.

Other comments...

But in baseball, it's easy to hate someone. You can usually see three AB's per game where a player doesn't perform and that will reinforce the hate.

And don't say GOGO didn't get a chance to prove himself. Gardy kept batting him leadoff every day for a month after it was clear he wasn't up to the job. He got more than his opportunity.