North Dakota to retire the Fighting Sioux name and logo

[jaj1701]

N.D. higher ed board retires Fighting Sioux nickname, logo

The State Board of Higher Education decided today to retire the UND Fighting Sioux logo and nickname and directed Chancellor Bill Goetz to so advise UND President Robert Kelley and urge him to begin the transition.

The board's president, Richie Smith, brought up the logo issue at the end of an all-day meeting, noting that as the board convened this morning the N.D. Supreme Court affirmed a district court ruling that struck down an injunction that had been sought by several members of the Spirit Lake Sioux tribe.

Smith noted that the board had voted in May 2009 to retire the name. Lifting the injunction put that action back into effect, he said, and unless he heard a motion to reconsider "the name is dropped."

Board member Claus Lembke of Bismarck offered a motion to reconsider, but it died for a lack of a second. At that point, Smith turned to Goetz and directed him to send a letter to Kelley recommending the transition begin.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/a ... id/157079/

[The Rube]

This was mentioned in headline news, but I think this warrants its own thread, given the controversy.

I think it's

Why is UND singled out? One tribe approved the name, and the other tribe had a majority vote for it, but the Coucil went against that majority.

[Fire Helmet Guy #26]

As much as I dislike the Sioux and SOME of their fans this really is a shame. I just wonder what will be done with the Ralph now with the name gone! Would be pretty spendy (I thought I heard $1M at one time) to get rid of all the Sioux logos in that place.

[jaj1701]

Sorry, didn't see it in Headline News. I never look in that thread. After waiting to see if anyone posted it, I finally thought I should. Anyways......they'll always suck, no matter what name they have.

[Greyeagle]

Sorry, didn't see it in Headline News. I never look in that thread. After waiting to see if anyone posted it, I finally thought I should. Anyways......they'll always suck, no matter what name they have.

No worries.
Carry on.

[GopherFan85]

As much as I dislike the Sioux and SOME of their fans this really is a shame. I just wonder what will be done with the Ralph now with the name gone! Would be pretty spendy (I thought I heard $1M at one time) to get rid of all the Sioux logos in that place.

What logos can stay at REA?

As far as REA itself who knows. But for the logos some stay and some go.

[The Rube]

Sorry, didn't see it in Headline News. I never look in that thread. After waiting to see if anyone posted it, I finally thought I should. Anyways......they'll always suck, no matter what name they have.

No worries.
Carry on.

Yep didn't mean to make it sound snarky. This subject definitely will be volatile, and should have its own thread.

Now that this has happened, how about the

Aztecs, Illini, Utes, Fighting Irish, etc.

Oh yeah: money.

[jaj1701]

Yep didn't mean to make it sound snarky. This subject definitely will be volatile, and should have its own thread.

Now that this has happened, how about the

Aztecs, Illini, Utes, Fighting Irish, etc.

No worries. You didn't come off that way.

Hmmmmm, I drive an Aztek! It is offensive to many. Do I need to have it's name changed?

[Greyeagle]

Hmmmmm, I drive an Aztek! It is offensive to many. Do I need to have it's name changed?

Hell yes it's offensive.....and it has nothing to do with the name.

[FargoSiouxHater]

Being in the heart of Sue(Now Flickertail) country, I can officially say I'm glad a decision has finally been made. Everyone around here basically knew that all of the extentions were just delaying the inevitable. For as much hatred I have for the team to the North, do I think the nickname should've been removed, absolutely not. Unfortunately, it's all about $$$$$$ and politics.

[dagies]

Hmmmmm, I drive an Aztek! It is offensive to many. Do I need to have it's name changed?

Hell yes it's offensive.....and it has nothing to do with the name.

LOL! You are SO right.

[SmokinGopher]

Seriously there are so many Siouxage logos in that place they might be better off just blowing the place up and building a new one. It's just plain dumb that they are being forced to change their nickname.

[SiouxFanatic]

Being in the heart of Sue(Now Flickertail) country, I can officially say I'm glad a decision has finally been made. Everyone around here basically knew that all of the extentions were just delaying the inevitable. For as much hatred I have for the team to the North, do I think the nickname should've been removed, absolutely not. Unfortunately, it's all about $$$$$$ and politics.

While I'm glad a decision had been made it just sucks that people of the Standing Rock reservation didn't get the chance to let their voices be heard in the manner the people of Spirit Lake did. If a vote actually materialized at the Standing Rock reservation, I have no doubt in my mind that the nickname would've been approved just like it was at Spirit Lake.

And I'm not afraid to say. Gopher fans here at GPL(most of you ) are a classy bunch and I really do enjoy talking with all of you.

[Bert]

As much as I dislike the Sioux and SOME of their fans this really is a shame. I just wonder what will be done with the Ralph now with the name gone! Would be pretty spendy (I thought I heard $1M at one time) to get rid of all the Sioux logos in that place.

Per GE 15 to 20 mil (per tour guide)

[gsmicke]

Sad day. I don't think the University could have represented the tribe any better. I hope the NoDak fans still yell SIOUX! during the national anthem.

[Handyman]

Being in the heart of Sue(Now Flickertail) country, I can officially say I'm glad a decision has finally been made. Everyone around here basically knew that all of the extentions were just delaying the inevitable. For as much hatred I have for the team to the North, do I think the nickname should've been removed, absolutely not. Unfortunately, it's all about $$$$$$ and politics.

While I'm glad a decision had been made it just sucks that people of the Standing Rock reservation didn't get the chance to let their voices be heard in the manner the people of Spirit Lake did. If a vote actually materialized at the Standing Rock reservation, I have no doubt in my mind that the nickname would've been approved just like it was at Spirit Lake.

And I'm not afraid to say. Gopher fans here at GPL(most of you ) are a classy bunch and I really do enjoy talking with all of you.

To be fair, Standing Rock has had a lot of time to take a vote...wasnt Ron voted out a few months back. This has been an issue for a few years if Standing Rock cared that much they should have done more. JMHO.

As I have said since this first came up, the only people who should have a say are the tribes themselves. The NCAA and the University of North Dakota and its fans should have been left out of it. Considering most of us hockey fans are not of native heritage it isnt our place. If the tribes had a problem then make it an issue, if they didnt then dont. What this whole fight devolved too was laughable at best on both sides.

BTW I know that people like to bring up Notre Dame and FSU when this comes up but lets remember the Seminole Tribes allowed FSU (because of the money but still) to keep the name and the Irish people have no issue with "Fighting Irish" so it doesn't exactly parallel. I am not sure how the Illini feel about Illinois, and considering there arent a lot of Aztecs left (although technically all Mexicans can be traced back to Aztecs I guess) it would be hard for them to protest. I get the point, but the argument strains credibility.

I am not trying to cause a fight or insult anyone, I dont care either way if the name stays or goes since it is the players I despise not the team name

[Greyeagle]

My son wants to study meteorology and will probably end up at UND (So sue me it's a tremendous value and the atmospheric science program is one of the best in the country and he has to live with his dumb choices ) so we went for a visit last week. Glad I didn't waste any money on a hat or sweatshirt for him.

[Indigenous_Gopher]

You couldn't of said it any better Handy . I believe this is a very huge win for some of us in the Native community while others will think its a huge loss.This isn't the first time that they have changed their name so let's just move on and not make a bigger deal than it already is.

[MATT]

So sue me

[hoop]

To quote Nelson from the Simpsons "Ha-Ha!"

[beersong]

To quote Nelson from the Simpsons "Ha-Ha!"

Anything which makes a UND fan sad/mad is a-ok in my book.

[gopherhockeyfan7]

I never fully understood the problem. Mainly because I didn't care enough to research it. I always felt like if the tribe had a legit problem with it, then change it. If it was blown out of proportion and really wasn't a huge deal, then don't. Whatever. I still don't really care. I hate ND no matter what their name and logo are.

[g_manpucker]

So will the Engelstad trust(which runs the building, correct?) follow through with past threats and not allow the university to play there because of the retiring of the Sioux logo? Just curious since in the past in was a pretty hardline subject from Ralph himself back in the day IIRC.

[dxmnkd316]

How is it a win for those in the native community? Especially when A MAJORITY of the sioux couldn't care less. This is a win for money grubbing holes.

This is a big deal because it's yanking away a tradition that has been around for longer than all of us on the board. There was never a problem until someone caught a whiff of a payout and now they are all acting like a bunch of sour grapes.

[dxmnkd316]

So will the Engelstad trust(which runs the building, correct?) follow through with past threats and not allow the university to play there because of the retiring of the Sioux logo? Just curious since in the past in was a pretty hardline subject from Ralph himself back in the day IIRC.

That was never the case, at least in recent times. The sioux don't have to do a damn thing to their arena. As things require replacing they have to remove them. But that's it from what I understand.

[Orion]

I never fully understood the problem. Mainly because I didn't care enough to research it. I always felt like if the tribe had a legit problem with it, then change it. If it was blown out of proportion and really wasn't a huge deal, then don't. Whatever. I still don't really care. I hate ND no matter what their name and logo are.

Just to clarify things a bit, no one is forcing UND to change the name. The NCAA has a policy not to allow them to host post season games as long as they have the name and logo. They have no legal authority to make them change their name. Also, UND is trying to get membership in the Summit league for all other sports other than hockey. So far that league has said no as long as they have the name and logo. The Souix tribes in the state have not said they don't want UND to have the name. They haven't fully endorsed it either. Most of them just don't care about the issue either way. Bottom line is no one is forcing this to happen. This is a decision that UND has made by themselves. Either to be pc or for more money it was UND that decided to move on with this decision.

[GopherHockeyFan]

Like most I don't give a crap about their stupid nickname. Keep it, change it, don't matter to me. My only issue is with the NCAA's stance that some are offensive and some aren't. Way to stick to your moral guns there guys

[dxmnkd316]

I never fully understood the problem. Mainly because I didn't care enough to research it. I always felt like if the tribe had a legit problem with it, then change it. If it was blown out of proportion and really wasn't a huge deal, then don't. Whatever. I still don't really care. I hate ND no matter what their name and logo are.

Just to clarify things a bit, no one is forcing UND to change the name. The NCAA has a policy not to allow them to host post season games as long as they have the name and logo. They have no legal authority to make them change their name. Also, UND is trying to get membership in the Summit league for all other sports other than hockey. So far that league has said no as long as they have the name and logo. The Souix tribes in the state have not said they don't want UND to have the name. They haven't fully endorsed it either. Most of them just don't care about the issue either way. Bottom line is no one is forcing this to happen. This is a decision that UND has made by themselves. Either to be pc or for more money it was UND that decided to move on with this decision.

No, this is the NCAA abusing their monopoly in collegiate sports and forcing "moral" policy down the throats of institutions.

Edit: As a monopoly they are forcing the hand of UND by default. We'll shut you out of revenue (which runs sports now) if you don't abide by our moral priorities.

[Orion]

I never fully understood the problem. Mainly because I didn't care enough to research it. I always felt like if the tribe had a legit problem with it, then change it. If it was blown out of proportion and really wasn't a huge deal, then don't. Whatever. I still don't really care. I hate ND no matter what their name and logo are.

Just to clarify things a bit, no one is forcing UND to change the name. The NCAA has a policy not to allow them to host post season games as long as they have the name and logo. They have no legal authority to make them change their name. Also, UND is trying to get membership in the Summit league for all other sports other than hockey. So far that league has said no as long as they have the name and logo. The Souix tribes in the state have not said they don't want UND to have the name. They haven't fully endorsed it either. Most of them just don't care about the issue either way. Bottom line is no one is forcing this to happen. This is a decision that UND has made by themselves. Either to be pc or for more money it was UND that decided to move on with this decision.

No, this is the NCAA abusing their monopoly in collegiate sports and forcing "moral" policy down the throats of institutions.

While I agree the ncaa overstepped the intent of that instituion, it is none the less still UND's decision to have what ever nickname and logo they want. They could easily say our name and logo mean so much to us that we decide not to host post season games and not get in the conference we want. For that matter, they don't even have to be part of the ncaa if they wanted. As with most things, it all comes down to money.

[SouthTexGopher]

You couldn't of said it any better Handy.

Actually, he could have...by not making broad and inaccurate generalizations about persons of Irish or Mexican ancestry...

[dxmnkd316]

I never fully understood the problem. Mainly because I didn't care enough to research it. I always felt like if the tribe had a legit problem with it, then change it. If it was blown out of proportion and really wasn't a huge deal, then don't. Whatever. I still don't really care. I hate ND no matter what their name and logo are.

Just to clarify things a bit, no one is forcing UND to change the name. The NCAA has a policy not to allow them to host post season games as long as they have the name and logo. They have no legal authority to make them change their name. Also, UND is trying to get membership in the Summit league for all other sports other than hockey. So far that league has said no as long as they have the name and logo. The Souix tribes in the state have not said they don't want UND to have the name. They haven't fully endorsed it either. Most of them just don't care about the issue either way. Bottom line is no one is forcing this to happen. This is a decision that UND has made by themselves. Either to be pc or for more money it was UND that decided to move on with this decision.

No, this is the NCAA abusing their monopoly in collegiate sports and forcing "moral" policy down the throats of institutions.

While I agree the ncaa overstepped the intent of that instituion, it is none the less still UND's decision to have what ever nickname and logo they want. They could easily say our name and logo mean so much to us that we decide not to host post season games and not get in the conference we want. For that matter, they don't even have to be part of the ncaa if they wanted. As with most things, it all comes down to money.

You can't honestly tell me that there's even a choice. You're given:

1. Fold your athletic department due to lack of revenue (and don't kid yourself, the lack of postseason home games and not getting into the summit league would really hurt UND in the long run)
2. Conform

[Orion]

You can't honestly tell me that there's even a choice. You're given:

1. Fold your athletic department due to lack of revenue (and don't kid yourself, the lack of postseason home games and not getting into the summit league would really hurt UND in the long run)
2. Conform

yes they have a choice. Just like they could have stayed DII and not worried about the summit league. They would never have had to fold their athletic department. Their choices were

1) Make money
2) Make more money

They chose number 2

[uofmpuckhead]

Careful Greyeagle.. I am a proud graduate of the UND Atmospheric Sciences department. You're right.. definitely one of the best in the country. Your son will come out with the knowledge to forecast both winter and summer weather. Definitely a skill graduates from the warm weather states can't claim.

That being said.. I grew up in Circle Pines, MN as a proud Gopher hockey fan and will always be a Gopher hockey fan. Needless to say, I took plenty of crap for wearing my Gopher jersey on game days and to old Englestad to cheer against UND no matter who they played.

BTW.. if your son has any questions or needs any advice, he can PM me anytime..

My son wants to study meteorology and will probably end up at UND (So sue me it's a tremendous value and the atmospheric science program is one of the best in the country and he has to live with his dumb choices ) so we went for a visit last week. Glad I didn't waste any money on a hat or sweatshirt for him.

[gator]

While I detest North Dakota as a hockey program and it could not have happen to a better school. I still wonder sometimes if this whole "PC" has gone to far.

[gopherhockeyfan7]

I never fully understood the problem. Mainly because I didn't care enough to research it. I always felt like if the tribe had a legit problem with it, then change it. If it was blown out of proportion and really wasn't a huge deal, then don't. Whatever. I still don't really care. I hate ND no matter what their name and logo are.

Just to clarify things a bit, no one is forcing UND to change the name. The NCAA has a policy not to allow them to host post season games as long as they have the name and logo. They have no legal authority to make them change their name. Also, UND is trying to get membership in the Summit league for all other sports other than hockey. So far that league has said no as long as they have the name and logo. The Souix tribes in the state have not said they don't want UND to have the name. They haven't fully endorsed it either. Most of them just don't care about the issue either way. Bottom line is no one is forcing this to happen. This is a decision that UND has made by themselves. Either to be pc or for more money it was UND that decided to move on with this decision.

Thanks for the explanation. I appreciate it.

[dxmnkd316]

Ok, because that's reasonable. Stay in D-II, and lose all of your home football and hockey postseason games or conform to our moral positions. (lose in the sense that you don't get them at home, not lose as in the opposite of win).

[Greyeagle]

You couldn't of said it any better Handy.

Actually, he could have...by not making broad and inaccurate generalizations about persons of Irish or Mexican ancestry...

True, we prefer "brawling Irish".

[Armadillo]

You couldn't of said it any better Handy.

Actually, he could have...by not making broad and inaccurate generalizations about persons of Irish or Mexican ancestry...

True, we prefer "brawling Irish".

"Drunken Irish?"

[SouthTexGopher]

You couldn't of said it any better Handy.

Actually, he could have...by not making broad and inaccurate generalizations about persons of Irish or Mexican ancestry...

True, we prefer "brawling Irish".

In all honesty, you'll always be wrong when you paint with a broad brush. In addition, Mexico is a very diverse nation...and those who consider themselves "Mexican" do not all trace ancestry back to the Aztecs. Persons of Mexican ancestry may trace their roots to Spain, the Mayans, the US, Ireland (the San Patricio battalion is historic) and several others. Guess it strikes a bit of a nerve, as I'm the father of two little girls who are of Mexican - but not Aztec - ancestry on their mom's side.

[Frontroguy]

Being in the heart of Sue(Now Flickertail) country, I can officially say I'm glad a decision has finally been made. Everyone around here basically knew that all of the extentions were just delaying the inevitable. For as much hatred I have for the team to the North, do I think the nickname should've been removed, absolutely not. Unfortunately, it's all about $$$$$$ and politics.

While I'm glad a decision had been made it just sucks that people of the Standing Rock reservation didn't get the chance to let their voices be heard in the manner the people of Spirit Lake did. If a vote actually materialized at the Standing Rock reservation, I have no doubt in my mind that the nickname would've been approved just like it was at Spirit Lake.

And I'm not afraid to say. Gopher fans here at GPL(most of you ) are a classy bunch and I really do enjoy talking with all of you.

To be fair, Standing Rock has had a lot of time to take a vote...wasnt Ron voted out a few months back. This has been an issue for a few years if Standing Rock cared that much they should have done more. JMHO.

As I have said since this first came up, the only people who should have a say are the tribes themselves. The NCAA and the University of North Dakota and its fans should have been left out of it. Considering most of us hockey fans are not of native heritage it isnt our place. If the tribes had a problem then make it an issue, if they didnt then dont. What this whole fight devolved too was laughable at best on both sides.

BTW I know that people like to bring up Notre Dame and FSU when this comes up but lets remember the Seminole Tribes allowed FSU (because of the money but still) to keep the name and the Irish people have no issue with "Fighting Irish" so it doesn't exactly parallel. I am not sure how the Illini feel about Illinois, and considering there arent a lot of Aztecs left (although technically all Mexicans can be traced back to Aztecs I guess) it would be hard for them to protest. I get the point, but the argument strains credibility.

I am not trying to cause a fight or insult anyone, I dont care either way if the name stays or goes since it is the players I despise not the team name

Who says that the Irish folks have no issue with Notre Dame? If Fighting Sioux is really hostile and abusive, then so is Fighting Irish.

[dxmnkd316]

Being in the heart of Sue(Now Flickertail) country, I can officially say I'm glad a decision has finally been made. Everyone around here basically knew that all of the extentions were just delaying the inevitable. For as much hatred I have for the team to the North, do I think the nickname should've been removed, absolutely not. Unfortunately, it's all about $$$$$$ and politics.

While I'm glad a decision had been made it just sucks that people of the Standing Rock reservation didn't get the chance to let their voices be heard in the manner the people of Spirit Lake did. If a vote actually materialized at the Standing Rock reservation, I have no doubt in my mind that the nickname would've been approved just like it was at Spirit Lake.

And I'm not afraid to say. Gopher fans here at GPL(most of you ) are a classy bunch and I really do enjoy talking with all of you.

To be fair, Standing Rock has had a lot of time to take a vote...wasnt Ron voted out a few months back. This has been an issue for a few years if Standing Rock cared that much they should have done more. JMHO.

As I have said since this first came up, the only people who should have a say are the tribes themselves. The NCAA and the University of North Dakota and its fans should have been left out of it. Considering most of us hockey fans are not of native heritage it isnt our place. If the tribes had a problem then make it an issue, if they didnt then dont. What this whole fight devolved too was laughable at best on both sides.

BTW I know that people like to bring up Notre Dame and FSU when this comes up but lets remember the Seminole Tribes allowed FSU (because of the money but still) to keep the name and the Irish people have no issue with "Fighting Irish" so it doesn't exactly parallel. I am not sure how the Illini feel about Illinois, and considering there arent a lot of Aztecs left (although technically all Mexicans can be traced back to Aztecs I guess) it would be hard for them to protest. I get the point, but the argument strains credibility.

I am not trying to cause a fight or insult anyone, I dont care either way if the name stays or goes since it is the players I despise not the team name

Who says that the Irish folks have no issue with Notre Dame? If Fighting Sioux is really hostile and abusive, then so is Fighting Irish.

Ding Ding.

[Eliot Rosewater]

As I have said since this first came up, the only people who should have a say are the tribes themselves. The NCAA and the University of North Dakota and its fans should have been left out of it. Considering most of us hockey fans are not of native heritage it isnt our place. If the tribes had a problem then make it an issue, if they didnt then dont. What this whole fight devolved too was laughable at best on both sides.

+1,000,000

Spot-on.

[dxmnkd316]

As I have said since this first came up, the only people who should have a say are the tribes themselves. The NCAA and the University of North Dakota and its fans should have been left out of it. Considering most of us hockey fans are not of native heritage it isnt our place. If the tribes had a problem then make it an issue, if they didnt then dont. What this whole fight devolved too was laughable at best on both sides.

+1,000,000

Spot-on.

Except for the part where the vast majority of the sioux had no problem with the name.

[The Rube]

As I have said since this first came up, the only people who should have a say are the tribes themselves. The NCAA and the University of North Dakota and its fans should have been left out of it. Considering most of us hockey fans are not of native heritage it isnt our place. If the tribes had a problem then make it an issue, if they didnt then dont. What this whole fight devolved too was laughable at best on both sides.

+1,000,000

Spot-on.

Except for the part where the vast majority of the sioux had no problem with the name.

They didn't. One tribe approved it.

Ron Horse whatever's tribe had a non-binding vote, and they approved the name. Ron and his coucil ignored that vote. Ron is gone now, and the coucil won't hold another vote.

[dxmnkd316]

As I have said since this first came up, the only people who should have a say are the tribes themselves. The NCAA and the University of North Dakota and its fans should have been left out of it. Considering most of us hockey fans are not of native heritage it isnt our place. If the tribes had a problem then make it an issue, if they didnt then dont. What this whole fight devolved too was laughable at best on both sides.

+1,000,000

Spot-on.

Except for the part where the vast majority of the sioux had no problem with the name.

They didn't. One tribe approved it.

Ron Horse whatever's tribe had a non-binding vote, and they approved the name. Ron and his coucil ignored that vote. Ron is gone now, and the coucil won't hold another vote.

Exactly.

[thinkbui]

It's odd because the guy who replaced him campaigned on the platform of immediately approving it and the few news reports I read didn't make it seem like he was only using that to split the vote his way. I had thought that by a couple of months ago, the nickname and moniker issue would have been resolved with the two major tribes approving their continued use.

[The Rube]

It's odd because the guy who replaced him campaigned on the platform of immediately approving it and the few news reports I read didn't make it seem like he was only using that to split the vote his way. I had thought that by a couple of months ago, the nickname and moniker issue would have been resolved with the two major tribes approving their continued use.

Ron's tribe would have to change some bylaws to have a vote.

[Eliot Rosewater]

As I have said since this first came up, the only people who should have a say are the tribes themselves. The NCAA and the University of North Dakota and its fans should have been left out of it. Considering most of us hockey fans are not of native heritage it isnt our place. If the tribes had a problem then make it an issue, if they didnt then dont. What this whole fight devolved too was laughable at best on both sides.

+1,000,000

Spot-on.

Except for the part where the vast majority of the sioux had no problem with the name.

I don't think, in the bit that I quoted, that he claimed that the vast majority do have a problem with it. What was spot on was that "The NCAA and the University of North Dakota and its fans should have been left out of it." It is hard to argue with that statement.

[dxmnkd316]

As I have said since this first came up, the only people who should have a say are the tribes themselves. The NCAA and the University of North Dakota and its fans should have been left out of it. Considering most of us hockey fans are not of native heritage it isnt our place. If the tribes had a problem then make it an issue, if they didnt then dont. What this whole fight devolved too was laughable at best on both sides.

+1,000,000

Spot-on.

Except for the part where the vast majority of the sioux had no problem with the name.

I don't think, in the bit that I quoted, that he claimed that the vast majority do have a problem with it. What was spot on was that "The NCAA and the University of North Dakota and its fans should have been left out of it." It is hard to argue with that statement.

Right, and as was posted above, most approved the name except for one guy who was "offended" by it enough to give the finger to his tribe.

[Handyman]

Who says that the Irish folks have no issue with Notre Dame? If Fighting Sioux is really hostile and abusive, then so is Fighting Irish.

To be fair I dont think either is hostile and abusive, but I am neither Sioux nor Irish. That is my whole point it isnt for us, UND or the NCAA to say it is up to the Irish or the Sioux people or whoever.

STG,

That wasn't what I meant, and I meant no disrespect which is why I said I dont know whether they define themselves as Aztec. I only included them because someone mentioned the name specifically. (it is impossible to pigeonhole the entire region just like anywhere else) I could have said Greek people being mad about Spartans, it is more of just an example as opposed to making any specific statement. All I have to go on is a few classes I took as a grad student where we discussed how the Aztecs were also the "Mexica" people which were the precursors to the Mexican people along with the many other cultures of the Southwest. (hence the name Mexico) Seriously no disrespect.

[Handyman]

Right, and as was posted above, most approved the name except for one guy who was "offended" by it enough to give the finger to his tribe.

Fine, but that wasnt what he was saying

[The Rube]

Who says that the Irish folks have no issue with Notre Dame? If Fighting Sioux is really hostile and abusive, then so is Fighting Irish.

To be fair I dont think either is hostile and abusive, but I am neither Sioux nor Irish. That is my whole point it isnt for us, UND or the NCAA to say it is up to the Irish or the Sioux people or whoever.

STG,

That wasn't what I meant, and I meant no disrespect which is why I said I dont know whether they define themselves as Aztec. I only included them because someone mentioned the name specifically. (it is impossible to pigeonhole the entire region just like anywhere else) I could have said Greek people being mad about Spartans, it is more of just an example as opposed to making any specific statement. All I have to go on is a few classes I took as a grad student where we discussed how the Aztecs were also the "Mexica" people which were the precursors to the Mexican people along with the many other cultures of the Southwest. (hence the name Mexico) Seriously no disrespect.

I mentioned the Aztecs, and I agree that the non-related peoples/NCAA should mind their own business. Why is one "more offensive" than another? I am Irish, and I take pride in the fact that a team is named after "my people" despite the stereotype. In sports, "Fighting" is not meant to be disparaging. It's meant to show pride, valor, etc.

[Next Crosby]

Being in the heart of Sue(Now Flickertail) country, I can officially say I'm glad a decision has finally been made. Everyone around here basically knew that all of the extentions were just delaying the inevitable. For as much hatred I have for the team to the North, do I think the nickname should've been removed, absolutely not. Unfortunately, it's all about $$$$$$ and politics.

While I'm glad a decision had been made it just sucks that people of the Standing Rock reservation didn't get the chance to let their voices be heard in the manner the people of Spirit Lake did. If a vote actually materialized at the Standing Rock reservation, I have no doubt in my mind that the nickname would've been approved just like it was at Spirit Lake.

And I'm not afraid to say. Gopher fans here at GPL(most of you ) are a classy bunch and I really do enjoy talking with all of you.

To be fair, Standing Rock has had a lot of time to take a vote...wasnt Ron voted out a few months back. This has been an issue for a few years if Standing Rock cared that much they should have done more. JMHO.

As I have said since this first came up, the only people who should have a say are the tribes themselves. The NCAA and the University of North Dakota and its fans should have been left out of it. Considering most of us hockey fans are not of native heritage it isnt our place. If the tribes had a problem then make it an issue, if they didnt then dont. What this whole fight devolved too was laughable at best on both sides.

BTW I know that people like to bring up Notre Dame and FSU when this comes up but lets remember the Seminole Tribes allowed FSU (because of the money but still) to keep the name and the Irish people have no issue with "Fighting Irish" so it doesn't exactly parallel. I am not sure how the Illini feel about Illinois, and considering there arent a lot of Aztecs left (although technically all Mexicans can be traced back to Aztecs I guess) it would be hard for them to protest. I get the point, but the argument strains credibility.

I am not trying to cause a fight or insult anyone, I dont care either way if the name stays or goes since it is the players I despise not the team name

Who says that the Irish folks have no issue with Notre Dame? If Fighting Sioux is really hostile and abusive, then so is Fighting Irish.

If people take offence to those names they need to get a life. If there was a team called the Stupid Swedes or Angry Italians I'd be proud.

[dxmnkd316]

I'd laugh my ass off if a team decided to go with passive-aggressive Lutheran albinos. I'd be their biggest fan.

[UofMhedFan23]

While I detest North Dakota as a hockey program and it could not have happen to a better school. I still wonder sometimes if this whole "PC" has gone to far.

UND should have bought a Mac a long time ago to avoid all these PC problems

[g_manpucker]

I agree with those that are saying that the NCAA needs to be equal in its enforcement of the offensive name policy. No ONE team should be discounted from enforcement of this rule. I am no Sioux fan but I do like the logo, much like the BlackHawks logo it's one of the most recognizable. I don't think any school or organization ever picked these logos and mascots to belittle these people, I think they picked the logo/mascot to have a strong symbol for their team. But at one time I guess one tribe started this snowball and it has rolled all the way down to here. While I don't hope for North Dakota to lose their mascot that they are identified by, I would laugh if they would become the Green Thunder or something equally unoffensive!

[GophGeek]

Not to change the tone but.....Get over it!!! Leave the horse alone it has been dead for quite some time.
On a more positive note I would like to be one of the first to welcome the Flickertails to the league. Quite some season to come with three new teams in the WCHA. When UND objects and points to outdated banners. We can fondly reminisce about Sioux teams of old but gently remind them that they are the Flickertails now. The Indy Colts can't really claim Unitas, Minnesota can't point to the titles won by the Lakers or Stars. Your little Flickertails now. Be proud! Make your own history FlickerTail! Fly little bird, FLY!!!!

[st8ofhockey]

Not to change the tone but.....Get over it!!! Leave the horse alone it has been dead for quite some time.
On a more positive note I would like to be one of the first to welcome the Flickertails to the league. Quite some season to come with three new teams in the WCHA. When UND objects and points to outdated banners. We can fondly reminisce about Sioux teams of old but gently remind them that they are the Flickertails now. The Indy Colts can't really claim Unitas, Minnesota can't point to the titles won by the Lakers or Stars. Your little Flickertails now. Be proud! Make your own history FlickerTail! Fly little bird, FLY!!!!

1. They're still the University of North Dakota, what logo they have on their sweater doesn't diminish their accomplishments or negate any banners

2. Comparing the Sioux being sanctioned by the NCAA to a professional franchise being relocated is apples and oranges

[SouthTexGopher]

All I have to go on is a few classes I took as a grad student where we discussed how the Aztecs were also the "Mexica" people which were the precursors to the Mexican people along with the many other cultures of the Southwest. (hence the name Mexico) Seriously no disrespect.

It's all good, Handy.

As for the Sioux having to change their nickname, something I've always believed is that - as long as it's done with respect and honor - it is pretty neat to call out a regional heritage as a college nickname (Indiana Hoosiers, Oklahoma Sooners, FSU Seminoles). Doing it in the vein of Cleveland's MLB club or DC's semi-pro football team is over the line.

[gopher6]

Flickertails? how will there fans react to that??

[GophGeek]

Not to change the tone but.....Get over it!!! Leave the horse alone it has been dead for quite some time.
On a more positive note I would like to be one of the first to welcome the Flickertails to the league. Quite some season to come with three new teams in the WCHA. When UND objects and points to outdated banners. We can fondly reminisce about Sioux teams of old but gently remind them that they are the Flickertails now. The Indy Colts can't really claim Unitas, Minnesota can't point to the titles won by the Lakers or Stars. Your little Flickertails now. Be proud! Make your own history FlickerTail! Fly little bird, FLY!!!!

1. They're still the University of North Dakota, what logo they have on their sweater doesn't diminish their accomplishments or negate any banners

2. Comparing the Sioux being sanctioned by the NCAA to a professional franchise being relocated is apples and oranges

All true but it still won't diminish the joy it will give me to harass the Flickertail fans. When they talk about us not being in the tourney last year. I can respond that they weren't even in the league.

[Golden FE Ranger]

While I detest North Dakota as a hockey program and it could not have happen to a better school. I still wonder sometimes if this whole "PC" has gone to far.

This sums up my feelings. I feel bad for some of the good fans I have met, but I will not be sad if Hakstol, Eades and what seems like the majority of the people I run into each year at the Final Five are up crying at night.

[jallengarry]

Glad I didn't waste any money on a hat or sweatshirt for him.

What the??? They have a Gold Country store on the UND campus?

I could care less they decided to change it and agree the issue has been way, way overblown?

[Jupiter]

I look at it this way....

I could careless about the political correctness of this. It's a great logo and name. But if the shoe was on the other foot and Minnesota had to dump Goldy and whatnot... Those "Sue" fans would be all over us and most likely dancing in the street.

So I say this....


HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!!!!!!

[g_manpucker]

I look at it this way....

I could careless about the political correctness of this. It's a great logo and name. But if the shoe was on the other foot and Minnesota had to dump Goldy and whatnot... Those "Sue" fans would be all over us and most likely dancing in the street.

So I say this....


HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!!!!!!

You just might have opened the flood gates now!

[Gopher Fan n Sue Land]

On a personal note, I am happy about this because I like seeing fans of the University Formerly Known as Sue suffer. Having said that, I think this is all about money (for both the NCAA and UND).

I can see Handy's point that non Native Americans don't have a right to tell Native Americans what they can consider offensive. It's determined by them. Florida State is D-1 and making money because they came to an agreement with local tribes years ago. UND didn't do that when they should have. If they had, this wouldn't be an issue.

As for "GophGeek" - don't be the a$$hole Gopher fan that Sue fans Bi*ch about. Regardless of the name, they have a storied program just like we do. I'd rather kick their a$$ on the ice.

[Greyeagle]

I look at it this way....

I could careless about the political correctness of this. It's a great logo and name. But if the shoe was on the other foot and Minnesota had to dump Goldy and whatnot... Those "Sue" fans would be all over us and most likely dancing in the street.

So I say this....


HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!!!!!!

[Chris Eckes]

I look at it this way....

I could careless about the political correctness of this. It's a great logo and name. But if the shoe was on the other foot and Minnesota had to dump Goldy and whatnot... Those "Sue" fans would be all over us and most likely dancing in the street.

So I say this....


HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!!!!!!

+infinity!

Love it, Jup! Anything that makes a sue fan sad makes me happy!

[dxmnkd316]

On a personal note, I am happy about this because I like seeing fans of the University Formerly Known as Sue suffer. Having said that, I think this is all about money (for both the NCAA and UND).

I can see Handy's point that non Native Americans don't have a right to tell Native Americans what they can consider offensive. It's determined by them. Florida State is D-1 and making money because they came to an agreement with local tribes years ago. UND didn't do that when they should have. If they had, this wouldn't be an issue.

As for "GophGeek" - don't be the a$$hole Gopher fan that Sue fans Bi*ch about. Regardless of the name, they have a storied program just like we do. I'd rather kick their a$$ on the ice.

They can be offended all they want. What I don't like is the fact that they believe they have a right to force change down everyone's throat because they're offended.

[Fire Helmet Guy #26]

So maybe someone can fill in a dope like myself why the school like the FSU SEMINOLES were able to keep their name? Seems to me like when that happened the whole issue should have been put to rest. Some schools can keep their names and some can't?

I love to see Sioux fans squirm over this issue but historically for College Hockey this is a bad IMO. The Fighting Sioux name in Grand Forks is pretty big, sure will be strange to see what happens with this whole deal.

[Gopher Fan n Sue Land]

On a personal note, I am happy about this because I like seeing fans of the University Formerly Known as Sue suffer. Having said that, I think this is all about money (for both the NCAA and UND).

I can see Handy's point that non Native Americans don't have a right to tell Native Americans what they can consider offensive. It's determined by them. Florida State is D-1 and making money because they came to an agreement with local tribes years ago. UND didn't do that when they should have. If they had, this wouldn't be an issue.

As for "GophGeek" - don't be the a$$hole Gopher fan that Sue fans Bi*ch about. Regardless of the name, they have a storied program just like we do. I'd rather kick their a$$ on the ice.

They can be offended all they want. What I don't like is the fact that they believe they have a right to force change down everyone's throat because they're offended.

Personally, I don't like it either. But the fact is that UND had several opportunities to work with the tribes to prevent this (just like FSU did). FSU "bought" the name by giving tons of money and grants to local tribes. UND didn't. Now, in order for UND to make money (ie - join the Summit League, host playoff games, etc) they have to change the name. It's kind of funny because it's their own damn fault.

[dxmnkd316]

I think it all has to do with what each "tribe" wants. (I use quotation marks because the tribes don't give a damn, just the people who run them.) FSU probably payed the seminoles a boatload of cash to shut them up.

[dxmnkd316]

On a personal note, I am happy about this because I like seeing fans of the University Formerly Known as Sue suffer. Having said that, I think this is all about money (for both the NCAA and UND).

I can see Handy's point that non Native Americans don't have a right to tell Native Americans what they can consider offensive. It's determined by them. Florida State is D-1 and making money because they came to an agreement with local tribes years ago. UND didn't do that when they should have. If they had, this wouldn't be an issue.

As for "GophGeek" - don't be the a$$hole Gopher fan that Sue fans Bi*ch about. Regardless of the name, they have a storied program just like we do. I'd rather kick their a$$ on the ice.

They can be offended all they want. What I don't like is the fact that they believe they have a right to force change down everyone's throat because they're offended.

Personally, I don't like it either. But the fact is that UND had several opportunities to work with the tribes to prevent this (just like FSU did). FSU "bought" the name by giving tons of money and grants to local tribes. UND didn't. Now, in order for UND to make money (ie - join the Summit League, host playoff games, etc) they have to change the name. It's kind of funny because it's their own damn fault.

You really think they didn't try? THat they laid prostrate and helpless while they had 80 years of history ripped from their school?

They did try. Except the sandbagging council leaders from one of the tribes went against what the tribe voted for. Just go and read The Rube's posts above.

[Chris Eckes]

You really think they didn't try? THat they laid prostrate and helpless while they had 80 years of history ripped from their school?

They did try. Except the sandbagging council leaders from one of the tribes went against what the tribe voted for. Just go and read The Rube's posts above.

Interesting diction there.

[dxmnkd316]

You really think they didn't try? THat they laid prostrate and helpless while they had 80 years of history ripped from their school?

They did try. Except the sandbagging council leaders from one of the tribes went against what the tribe voted for. Just go and read The Rube's posts above.

Interesting diction there.

Why's that?