Consumer Research

[streakygopher]

Anybody know anything about the Microsoft Surface? This is a gushing review....

http://gizmodo.com/5919521/microsoft-surface-just-made-the-macbook-air-and-the-ipad-obsolete

If they price it @ $800 or $900 and it has a 6-7 hour battery life then Apple has no worries IMO.

If I can run Windows based business applications on this for 6 hours for $900 then Apple does have something to worry about. The iPad is still little more than a large phone. This could up the ante and Apple no longer has (in my opinion) the single most important piece of their strategy (Jobs). I have an iPad and like it BUT it has many limitations and a retina display doesn't make a revolution. If Microsoft does this right it could expose the iPad as a toy (which it is). The iPad does not have the inner workings to run a business application and Apple can't shove their full OS on it and make it viable. Microsoft can because everyone wants their Microsoft applications on their iPad. Microsoft has the chance to give them that.

This is the point that stuck a little with me. If this thing is a tool and not a toy it should get a lot of interest from the business community. If business folks can tuck this under their arms and operate it like a laptop this could get a lot of interest fast. I don't know too much about interconnecting a device to machine tools like a laptop can do, but since it's Windows and most machine tools are Windows driven, I would think that would be another terrific application...long hours on the shop floor, easy mobility, no cords.

[dxmnkd316]

Yeah, but the thing working against the Microsoft tablet is Windows itself. Windows 8 has received a very chilly response so far. I'm thinking the success of the tablet hinges almost entirely on the success of Windows 8 (and perhaps vice versa). Microsoft is using this tablet as a launching pad for Windows 8.

I can see the great possibilities, but Windows 8 is going to be almost impossible to sell to the corporate world because of the Metro interface. Surely a warning sign.

[gopheritall]

We are within days of introducing the iPad to 110 of our workers. I can imagine that many other businesses have already made the leap. Once the leap has been made, it will be a long long time before Microsoft gets these clients back.

I'm sure they aren't too late, but they sure aren't on time. I'm excited that apple will have a serious competitor.

What are they doing with the iPads? What industry are you in?

[Kelor]

We are within days of introducing the iPad to 110 of our workers. I can imagine that many other businesses have already made the leap. Once the leap has been made, it will be a long long time before Microsoft gets these clients back.

I'm sure they aren't too late, but they sure aren't on time. I'm excited that apple will have a serious competitor.

What are they doing with the iPads? What industry are you in?

It's our sales force. This is a big move and we know there are serious compatibility issues, but here we go....

[davescharf]

We are within days of introducing the iPad to 110 of our workers. I can imagine that many other businesses have already made the leap. Once the leap has been made, it will be a long long time before Microsoft gets these clients back.

I'm sure they aren't too late, but they sure aren't on time. I'm excited that apple will have a serious competitor.

What are they doing with the iPads? What industry are you in?

It's our sales force. This is a big move and we know there are serious compatibility issues, but here we go....

We literally have thousands of them deployed and have multiple apps to support the ones in the field. I would argue that in the eyes of those who have one it's a little more than a toy.

I use Pages and Numbers quite a bit for things I'm involved with outside of work. If I can spend $400 for the iPad (or even $500) and spend less than $50 on apps to do things productive, that's still a challenge Microsoft will have. Microsoft has one shot to get this right or they'll be just another competitor.

[greydogg]

Anybody know anything about the Microsoft Surface? This is a gushing review....

http://gizmodo.com/5919521/microsoft-surface-just-made-the-macbook-air-and-the-ipad-obsolete

If they price it @ $800 or $900 and it has a 6-7 hour battery life then Apple has no worries IMO.

I really don't think Microsoft will price the device higher than the iPad, if they do what they did with the Xbox they will price the device $50-100 dollars cheaper to get their market foothold established. I knew this was coming from MS and I was waiting to see what it was before I thought about buying a tablet. I now know that I will give this the best look before I make my decision (based on my home computer network setup is used and for my job). RT model will be comparable to iPad performance wise but the Intel Ivy Bridge model will knock the doors off the iPad.

[rowshkex]

I'd make a serious consideration of this if it synced well with Outlook, etc... I fully utilize the task list in Outlook's calendar, and the iPhone doesn't know how any of that works for some reason, and Apple apparently can't figure out how to implement it...

[george]

We have issues with synching either Android or ipads with our network right now. I am planning to wait for the MS tablet in hopes it will play better with my work network.

[cavedog]

The Zune was supposed to be a hot seller too...

[Jupiter]

The Zune was supposed to be a hot seller too...

[Chris Eckes]

So I just switched my wireless plan to a plan that I can actually afford to have a smart phone on. Anyone have any recommendations? I'm through Page Plus wireless now, and I think they can port Verizon phones onto their network. I would like a non-iPhone smartphone. Whaddya think?

EDIT: I've been looking at the Droid X... any thoughts about that one?

[Handyman]

The Droid X is a good phone, but I hate MotoBlur (the Motorola Launcher) so I would never buy a Motorola again. If there is an HTC phone you can port like the Incredible 2 I would go with that over the Droid but I fully admit i am an HTC fanboy. (who is stuck with the Samsung Galaxy s2 right now and wants to cry about it)

[Chris Eckes]

What do you think of the Incredible 1? Looks like there are a few of those floating around for a reasonable price...

[Handyman]

I have played around with the Incredible 1, it is a solid phone though I think the specs are probably a bit outdated. I guess it all depends what you need it for. If you just plan to do the basics it should be fine. If you want to get like 500 apps and do high end stuff you might need to go a generation higher.

When the money scenario is better for me the HTC Evo LTE (Sprint) will be mine. My buddy has one and the thing is like heaven.

[skiier32]

I have played around with the Incredible 1, it is a solid phone though I think the specs are probably a bit outdated. I guess it all depends what you need it for. If you just plan to do the basics it should be fine. If you want to get like 500 apps and do high end stuff you might need to go a generation higher.

When the money scenario is better for me the HTC Evo LTE (Sprint) will be mine. My buddy has one and the thing is like heaven.

When I have a line on my plan that has an upgrade I will also be getting the Evo LTE!!

[Handyman]

I miss my old Evo 4G...that phone was better than my laptop and I had it tweaked so awesome it outperformed even the next generation of phones and half the tablets. (especially anything from the "I" line) If I had known I would have just gotten another one of those instead of upgrading to the Galaxy which has better specs but is not nearly as fun or customizable. the LTE will be mine!

[rowshkex]

Simple coffee makers. Go.

[PrideOnIce]

Simple coffee makers. Go.

A guy I once worked with would just eat the roasted whole beans.

[rowshkex]

Simple coffee makers. Go.

A guy I once worked with would just eat the roasted whole beans.

D***it, why didn't I think of that?!? But seriously, coffee beans taste good.

[Slap Shot]

Simple coffee makers. Go.

A guy I once worked with would just eat the roasted whole beans.

Bill Braskie?

[dxmnkd316]

Mr. Coffee four-cup drip. Done.

[rowshkex]

Bought the Mr. Coffee 12-cupper. We'll see what happens!

[george]

Bought the Mr. Coffee 12-cupper. We'll see what happens!

I recommend not drinking it all at one sitting. If you do, please be sure to come on here and post results.

[dxmnkd316]

A buddy and I once came close to each drinking 100 (small) cups of coffee in 48 hours. Before we did this, we had to figure out how fast the body metabolizes caffeine to make sure we didn't actually die.

[Zwak]

Simple coffee makers. Go.

I don't drink coffee but my wife does so I bought her a Keurig single brew machine. She loves it. There are tons of different coffees to choose from and she likes the convenience of just a cup at a time.

Word of caution, if one is considering one of these, make sure your normal coffee mug fits underneath the dispenser. My wife uses a travel mug so I had to get a her a bigger machine so it would fit under it.

[rowshkex]

Bought the Mr. Coffee 12-cupper. We'll see what happens!

I recommend not drinking it all at one sitting. If you do, please be sure to come on here and post results.

Hopefully I can just brew a 4-cup batch in this thing until I get married or need 12 cups a day... Whichever comes first.

[Golden FE Ranger]

Bought the Mr. Coffee 12-cupper. We'll see what happens!

I recommend not drinking it all at one sitting. If you do, please be sure to come on here and post results.

Hopefully I can just brew a 4-cup batch in this thing until I get married or need 12 cups a day... Whichever comes first.

You May need the 12 cups prior, but after there should be plenty of time for sleep... Until the little ones show up.

[The Rube]

A buddy and I once came close to each drinking 100 (small) cups of coffee in 48 hours. Before we did this, we had to figure out how fast the body metabolizes caffeine to make sure we didn't actually die.

It's more than 6 pots of Perkins coffee, between two people, in a (approx) 5 hour sitting. However, your body will hate you afterwards.

[MNGophers29]

Simple coffee makers. Go.

I don't drink coffee but my wife does so I bought her a Keurig single brew machine. She loves it. There are tons of different coffees to choose from and she likes the convenience of just a cup at a time.

Word of caution, if one is considering one of these, make sure your normal coffee mug fits underneath the dispenser. My wife uses a travel mug so I had to get a her a bigger machine so it would fit under it.

Same problem here, but depending on what one you bought, you can remove the spill collector and gain about 2 inches of clearance.

This coffee stuff got me thinking about my ex-brother-in-law and you used to use a french press and spend about an hour making a cup of coffee. I am not a coffee drinker so I may not understand why people drink coffee, but I am guessing it is something used to get the body going in the AM? I don't have time to spend an hour on much of anything, much less a damn cup of coffe...damn coffee snob!

[rowshkex]

Simple coffee makers. Go.

I don't drink coffee but my wife does so I bought her a Keurig single brew machine. She loves it. There are tons of different coffees to choose from and she likes the convenience of just a cup at a time.

Word of caution, if one is considering one of these, make sure your normal coffee mug fits underneath the dispenser. My wife uses a travel mug so I had to get a her a bigger machine so it would fit under it.

Same problem here, but depending on what one you bought, you can remove the spill collector and gain about 2 inches of clearance.

This coffee stuff got me thinking about my ex-brother-in-law and you used to use a french press and spend about an hour making a cup of coffee. I am not a coffee drinker so I may not understand why people drink coffee, but I am guessing it is something used to get the body going in the AM? I don't have time to spend an hour on much of anything, much less a damn cup of coffe...damn coffee snob!

An hour to make French press...???

[MNGophers29]

Simple coffee makers. Go.

I don't drink coffee but my wife does so I bought her a Keurig single brew machine. She loves it. There are tons of different coffees to choose from and she likes the convenience of just a cup at a time.

Word of caution, if one is considering one of these, make sure your normal coffee mug fits underneath the dispenser. My wife uses a travel mug so I had to get a her a bigger machine so it would fit under it.

Same problem here, but depending on what one you bought, you can remove the spill collector and gain about 2 inches of clearance.

This coffee stuff got me thinking about my ex-brother-in-law and you used to use a french press and spend about an hour making a cup of coffee. I am not a coffee drinker so I may not understand why people drink coffee, but I am guessing it is something used to get the body going in the AM? I don't have time to spend an hour on much of anything, much less a damn cup of coffe...damn coffee snob!

An hour to make French press...???

Yeah, I have no idea, I know that he was screwing around in the kitchen long after the rest of the people that drank coffee had theirs and were almost done. Not a coffee drinker so I have no idea what a french press is..

[cavedog]

Simple coffee makers. Go.

I don't drink coffee but my wife does so I bought her a Keurig single brew machine. She loves it. There are tons of different coffees to choose from and she likes the convenience of just a cup at a time.

Word of caution, if one is considering one of these, make sure your normal coffee mug fits underneath the dispenser. My wife uses a travel mug so I had to get a her a bigger machine so it would fit under it.

I recently did some research on Keurig machines before buying one for my wife for Mother's Day. She absolutely loves it and I've been using it a fair amount too. The coffee is better than when I use our Mr. Coffee 10 cup. I bought the small office model from Office Max for 130. I guess it uses commercial quality pump and lasts longer than the models you find elsewhere. Those k cups get a little expensive but I guess with convenience comes extra cost...

[dxmnkd316]

The Keurig machines get a bad reputation because people don't understand that when you have hard water, the lines can clog up and cause the pump to wear out sooner. Even mildly hard water can be a big issue.

[george]

Simple coffee makers. Go.

I don't drink coffee but my wife does so I bought her a Keurig single brew machine. She loves it. There are tons of different coffees to choose from and she likes the convenience of just a cup at a time.

Word of caution, if one is considering one of these, make sure your normal coffee mug fits underneath the dispenser. My wife uses a travel mug so I had to get a her a bigger machine so it would fit under it.

I recently did some research on Keurig machines before buying one for my wife for Mother's Day. She absolutely loves it and I've been using it a fair amount too. The coffee is better than when I use our Mr. Coffee 10 cup. I bought the small office model from Office Max for 130. I guess it uses commercial quality pump and lasts longer than the models you find elsewhere. Those k cups get a little expensive but I guess with convenience comes extra cost...

I saw that someone has refillable cups for them.

[cavedog]

The Keurig machines get a bad reputation because people don't understand that when you have hard water, the lines can clog up and cause the pump to wear out sooner. Even mildly hard water can be a big issue.

True dat. We only use distilled water in ours...

[Tee09]

The Keurig machines get a bad reputation because people don't understand that when you have hard water, the lines can clog up and cause the pump to wear out sooner. Even mildly hard water can be a big issue.

True dat. We only use distilled water in ours...

So...If I really want to buy a reverse osmosis water system, I can tell my wife it's for her coffee maker? SCORE!

[dxmnkd316]

RO systems are great, but don't forget the annual costs associated with membrane and pre-filter replacements.

[Tee09]

RO systems are great, but don't forget the annual costs associated with membrane and pre-filter replacements.

They aren't terrible, but I have to wait to get into a real house with a real job first.

[cavedog]

I'd love to know what the costs are for purchase/install and maintenance. We spend a fair amount of money on bottled and distilled h2o...

[dxmnkd316]

I was looking at putting one in last year when I bought my house. Just an under-the-sink model. I want to say it was something like $$300 for the system and another $250-$300 a year for membranes and filters.

[The Rube]

Water is free, people!!!!!!!!


(yeah ok, it's under utilities, but you get my point)

[george]

I'd love to know what the costs are for purchase/install and maintenance. We spend a fair amount of money on bottled and distilled h2o...

Jebus, you must have really bad water there. Our Edina water is notoriously hard and, in my opinion, they way over-chlorinate it. We make do just fine with a conventional softener and a small final filter (particulate and activated charcoal for taste/chlorine)on the cold water tap in the kitchen. RO seems overkill unless you have really bad incoming water or some serious need for high purity (I specify them for sterilizer systems, labs and some steam generation systems).

[Tee09]

My interest would be for a hobby where I need a really low conductivity. I don't mind the taste of the chlorinated chalk/water mix we have here, but lugging distilled water back from work or the store gets old fast.

[Idontknow]

Has anyone here tried BoostMobile? I'm still on a basic phone and near the end of my contract. I don't really use my phone that much so I hate to spend upwards of $100/month on a cell phone. I am getting tired of telling my friends not to text me though (right now it's 20 cents a text). With Boost I could get a smartphone and have unlimited everything for $55/mo. initially and $40/mo. after 18 months. I know with pre-paid the big downsides are buying your phone upfront and no roaming. I think I can deal with that, but my question is more about their signal in the city and any customer service issues people have had. (I know most cell phone companies have customer service issues though)

[dxmnkd316]

My interest would be for a hobby where I need a really low conductivity. I don't mind the taste of the chlorinated chalk/water mix we have here, but lugging distilled water back from work or the store gets old fast.

18.3 MOhm FTW!

[cavedog]

I'd love to know what the costs are for purchase/install and maintenance. We spend a fair amount of money on bottled and distilled h2o...

Jebus, you must have really bad water there. Our Edina water is notoriously hard and, in my opinion, they way over-chlorinate it. We make do just fine with a conventional softener and a small final filter (particulate and activated charcoal for taste/chlorine)on the cold water tap in the kitchen. RO seems overkill unless you have really bad incoming water or some serious need for high purity (I specify them for sterilizer systems, labs and some steam generation systems).

Yes, water is awful out here in Sherburne Co.

[HockeyBum]

St. Croix Tree Service is on my s**t list. We lost some trees in the storm a few weeks ago. We cut up the trees ourselves and piled them on the curb. I asked them to pick up the debris and remove the stump. I realize they are probably busy, but it took them over a week to pick up the stuff from the curb, and they left the stump.

Some guy came back today and ground out the stump, but he left an enormous pile of dirt, wood chips, and roots behind. I contacted St. Croix Tree to complain that they didn't remove the debris and smooth it out. Apparently they charge extra for that, which they never told me about. I guess I just assumed that was part of the deal. Had I known that, I wouldn't have bothered to have it done. So now I've got a bill and a big mess to clean up tomorrow.

[cavedog]

Any TV/Home Theatre experts out there?

I need to buy a new hdtv for our lower level family room (controlled lighting - even during the middle of the day), keeping the size between 46-55" and the price around 800-1000. The TV will be used for mostly TV, movies, and some gaming in a new home 5.1 home theatre setup. I'm looking for the best bang for the buck and something reliable that will last 10+ years (like these seemingly indestructable trinitons we have)! I'm strongly considering the Panasonic Viera Plasmas but hoping to get feedback from others more knowledgable...

Thanks!
-e

[The Rube]

I, and four other friends, each have the Viera series. Reliable, great picture, great value.

[dxmnkd316]

I have a Viera TC-P50G25 and I love it enough to get the TC-P65GT50 this year. There are a number of websites you can look at that compare the specs for all of their series of TVs.

[jallengarry]

I'd love to know what the costs are for purchase/install and maintenance. We spend a fair amount of money on bottled and distilled h2o...

Jebus, you must have really bad water there. Our Edina water is notoriously hard and, in my opinion, they way over-chlorinate it. We make do just fine with a conventional softener and a small final filter (particulate and activated charcoal for taste/chlorine)on the cold water tap in the kitchen. RO seems overkill unless you have really bad incoming water or some serious need for high purity (I specify them for sterilizer systems, labs and some steam generation systems).

Yes, water is awful out here in Sherburne Co.

The water is pretty awful down south of Lakeville here too...hard as heck. Also, the city sent out letter (in Elko New Market here) that there has been some trace radium leaking into one of the two city wells. They are developing a plan for a water treatment facility now that the state is requiring more mandatory testing...but in the meantime we got a whole-house carbon tank in front of our softener and an RO system. You can get really detailed info on your cities water for free from several sites with a google search.

There are a lot of things to consider in the RO system you buy: Number of filters (I prefer 5) Carbon block vs. granular activated carbon filters (bloc is better), post re-mineralizers (improve taste), etc...and a lot of the ones you can get at the box stores are crap.

[WPoS]

I'd love to know what the costs are for purchase/install and maintenance. We spend a fair amount of money on bottled and distilled h2o...

Jebus, you must have really bad water there. Our Edina water is notoriously hard and, in my opinion, they way over-chlorinate it. We make do just fine with a conventional softener and a small final filter (particulate and activated charcoal for taste/chlorine)on the cold water tap in the kitchen. RO seems overkill unless you have really bad incoming water or some serious need for high purity (I specify them for sterilizer systems, labs and some steam generation systems).

Yes, water is awful out here in Sherburne Co.

The water is pretty awful down south of Lakeville here too...hard as heck. Also, the city sent out letter (in Elko New Market here) that there has been some trace radium leaking into one of the two city wells. They are developing a plan for a water treatment facility now that the state is requiring more mandatory testing...but in the meantime we got a whole-house carbon tank in front of our softener and an RO system. You can get really detailed info on your cities water for free from several sites with a google search.

There are a lot of things to consider in the RO system you buy: Number of filters (I prefer 5) Carbon block vs. granular activated carbon filters (bloc is better), post re-mineralizers (improve taste), etc...and a lot of the ones you can get at the box stores are crap.

I'd disagree with you on the the block vs GAC filters....GAC has WAY more surface area and is generally more preffered and efficient in water treatment applications. Block carbon filters do some particulate filtration that isn't really needed and causes them to plug up quicker than the useful life of the filter. Yes, I DO know SOMETHING about filtration...I designed water filtration systems and filters for 4+ years...

W

[fightclub30]

Looking to purchase a propane/Natural Gas grill soon.

My buddies all go out and spend $200 on a charbroil, or the home depot special of the day and end up with a rusted out POS in short order. I really dont want to do that. My dad has a Weber Natural Gas grill, that has seen 7 winters and honestly looks 2, maybe 3 years old and still works great. The Cheap charbroils, within 3 months the starter has broken, a burner knob has fallen off, etc.

Is this more to do with how they take care of them (i.e. do other people have better luck with the cheaper models?) or is this a case of you get what you pay for?

I was looking at the Weber Spirit E-310. I dont need or want a side-burner, and I dont need 1.7 Million square inches of cooking surface, I dont need a rotiserie, or any other bells and whistles. I just want a good grill that can get hot enough to sear and will last 7-10 years if possible. It seemed like a simple, well built, reasonably priced grill, but will this just get rusted out in 2 years as well? I dont want to spend $1,200 on a grill, in fact I dont want to spend more than $600 (just cant justify more than that right now).

Also what is the debate on keeping them covered or not? I plan to probably not cover it during the summer, but bring it into the garage and cover it for the winter.

Any insights into this would help. Thanks guys.

[davescharf]

Looking to purchase a propane/Natural Gas grill soon.

My buddies all go out and spend $200 on a charbroil, or the home depot special of the day and end up with a rusted out POS in short order. I really dont want to do that. My dad has a Weber Natural Gas grill, that has seen 7 winters and honestly looks 2, maybe 3 years old and still works great. The Cheap charbroils, within 3 months the starter has broken, a burner knob has fallen off, etc.

Is this more to do with how they take care of them (i.e. do other people have better luck with the cheaper models?) or is this a case of you get what you pay for?

I was looking at the Weber Spirit E-310. I dont need or want a side-burner, and I dont need 1.7 Million square inches of cooking surface, I dont need a rotiserie, or any other bells and whistles. I just want a good grill that can get hot enough to sear and will last 7-10 years if possible. It seemed like a simple, well built, reasonably priced grill, but will this just get rusted out in 2 years as well? I dont want to spend $1,200 on a grill, in fact I dont want to spend more than $600 (just cant justify more than that right now).

Also what is the debate on keeping them covered or not? I plan to probably not cover it during the summer, but bring it into the garage and cover it for the winter.

Any insights into this would help. Thanks guys.

I had asked some grill related questions awhile back in this thread too. I'm more curious though what the difference in the $500 and $900 grills are and what justifies the additional cost.

[Gopherguy05]

Looking to purchase a propane/Natural Gas grill soon.

My buddies all go out and spend $200 on a charbroil, or the home depot special of the day and end up with a rusted out POS in short order. I really dont want to do that. My dad has a Weber Natural Gas grill, that has seen 7 winters and honestly looks 2, maybe 3 years old and still works great. The Cheap charbroils, within 3 months the starter has broken, a burner knob has fallen off, etc.

Is this more to do with how they take care of them (i.e. do other people have better luck with the cheaper models?) or is this a case of you get what you pay for?

I was looking at the Weber Spirit E-310. I dont need or want a side-burner, and I dont need 1.7 Million square inches of cooking surface, I dont need a rotiserie, or any other bells and whistles. I just want a good grill that can get hot enough to sear and will last 7-10 years if possible. It seemed like a simple, well built, reasonably priced grill, but will this just get rusted out in 2 years as well? I dont want to spend $1,200 on a grill, in fact I dont want to spend more than $600 (just cant justify more than that right now).




Also what is the debate on keeping them covered or not? I plan to probably not cover it during the summer, but bring it into the garage and cover it for the winter.

Any insights into this would help. Thanks guys.

I had asked some grill related questions awhile back in this thread too. I'm more curious though what the difference in the $500 and $900 grills are and what justifies the additional cost.

$89 weber 23.5 inch kettle grill + 20lb bag of Kingsford Briquettes. Problem solved.

[davescharf]

Looking to purchase a propane/Natural Gas grill soon.

My buddies all go out and spend $200 on a charbroil, or the home depot special of the day and end up with a rusted out POS in short order. I really dont want to do that. My dad has a Weber Natural Gas grill, that has seen 7 winters and honestly looks 2, maybe 3 years old and still works great. The Cheap charbroils, within 3 months the starter has broken, a burner knob has fallen off, etc.

Is this more to do with how they take care of them (i.e. do other people have better luck with the cheaper models?) or is this a case of you get what you pay for?

I was looking at the Weber Spirit E-310. I dont need or want a side-burner, and I dont need 1.7 Million square inches of cooking surface, I dont need a rotiserie, or any other bells and whistles. I just want a good grill that can get hot enough to sear and will last 7-10 years if possible. It seemed like a simple, well built, reasonably priced grill, but will this just get rusted out in 2 years as well? I dont want to spend $1,200 on a grill, in fact I dont want to spend more than $600 (just cant justify more than that right now).


$89 weber 23.5 inch kettle grill + 20lb bag of Kingsford Briquettes. Problem solved.

Also what is the debate on keeping them covered or not? I plan to probably not cover it during the summer, but bring it into the garage and cover it for the winter.

Any insights into this would help. Thanks guys.

I had asked some grill related questions awhile back in this thread too. I'm more curious though what the difference in the $500 and $900 grills are and what justifies the additional cost.

I assume this bolded area is your response. As much as I love charcoal (and have a charcoal grill in addition to my gas one), I'm not fortunately enough to have an hour to make dinner every night I want to grill something. I can do it on weekends, but not during the week so gas is the only option for us then

[Gopherguy05]

Looking to purchase a propane/Natural Gas grill soon.

My buddies all go out and spend $200 on a charbroil, or the home depot special of the day and end up with a rusted out POS in short order. I really dont want to do that. My dad has a Weber Natural Gas grill, that has seen 7 winters and honestly looks 2, maybe 3 years old and still works great. The Cheap charbroils, within 3 months the starter has broken, a burner knob has fallen off, etc.

Is this more to do with how they take care of them (i.e. do other people have better luck with the cheaper models?) or is this a case of you get what you pay for?

I was looking at the Weber Spirit E-310. I dont need or want a side-burner, and I dont need 1.7 Million square inches of cooking surface, I dont need a rotiserie, or any other bells and whistles. I just want a good grill that can get hot enough to sear and will last 7-10 years if possible. It seemed like a simple, well built, reasonably priced grill, but will this just get rusted out in 2 years as well? I dont want to spend $1,200 on a grill, in fact I dont want to spend more than $600 (just cant justify more than that right now).


$89 weber 23.5 inch kettle grill + 20lb bag of Kingsford Briquettes. Problem solved.

Also what is the debate on keeping them covered or not? I plan to probably not cover it during the summer, but bring it into the garage and cover it for the winter.

Any insights into this would help. Thanks guys.

I had asked some grill related questions awhile back in this thread too. I'm more curious though what the difference in the $500 and $900 grills are and what justifies the additional cost.

I assume this bolded area is your response. As much as I love charcoal (and have a charcoal grill in addition to my gas one), I'm not fortunately enough to have an hour to make dinner every night I want to grill something. I can do it on weekends, but not during the week so gas is the only option for us then

Fixed above. Apparently I can't cut and paste real well.

I understand your point. I love my weber, but yes, there are sometimes when i just want a quick grilled burger that waiting an hour sucks.

[Bertogliat]

Looking to purchase a propane/Natural Gas grill soon.

My buddies all go out and spend $200 on a charbroil, or the home depot special of the day and end up with a rusted out POS in short order. I really dont want to do that. My dad has a Weber Natural Gas grill, that has seen 7 winters and honestly looks 2, maybe 3 years old and still works great. The Cheap charbroils, within 3 months the starter has broken, a burner knob has fallen off, etc.

Is this more to do with how they take care of them (i.e. do other people have better luck with the cheaper models?) or is this a case of you get what you pay for?

I was looking at the Weber Spirit E-310. I dont need or want a side-burner, and I dont need 1.7 Million square inches of cooking surface, I dont need a rotiserie, or any other bells and whistles. I just want a good grill that can get hot enough to sear and will last 7-10 years if possible. It seemed like a simple, well built, reasonably priced grill, but will this just get rusted out in 2 years as well? I dont want to spend $1,200 on a grill, in fact I dont want to spend more than $600 (just cant justify more than that right now).

Also what is the debate on keeping them covered or not? I plan to probably not cover it during the summer, but bring it into the garage and cover it for the winter.

Any insights into this would help. Thanks guys.

I purchased a Kenmore grill in 2005 for about $350. At the time I was looking for a heavier, sturdier grill that looked like it could handle heavy use for 5+ years. I wanted 4 burners and a cermic coated grate to cook on. The grill has a side burner, which I only use in the summer and for saurkraut. It is a good looking grill and is still performing very nicely. No complaints. I recommend the electric starter over the push button. Mine still works well and I have yet to change the battery. Not sure how that is even possible....

Although the Kenmore name is not sexy, I have found that when comparing appliances, Kenmore consistently has equal or greater features and always a better price than their competitors. I always shop all brands yet I see I own a Kenmore water softener, dish washer, microwave, washer, dryer and grill.

Nearly all of my tools are craftsman, including the mower, snowblower and lawn vacuum. The table saws. Damn!

[dxmnkd316]

The Weber Performer. If it takes more than 20 minutes between you taking the cover off the grill and the charcoal being ready, you're doing it wrong.

[fightclub30]

Then I regularly do it wrong.

I always end up with hot spots, so if I cook 4 burgers, usually one ends up crispy. I have to coat the briquettes in lighter fluid to get them to start, and if I dont wait long enough I end up tasting the lighter fluid in my food. The flare-ups from flipping burgers and steaks makes me feel like I am sending smoke signals. I dont prefer the taste of charcoal to propane either way (neither one is much different to me). Just for the hassle of tryign to grill 2-3 nights a week, I'd rather have a gas grill.

[MNGophers29]

Ahh, grills. I love selling grills. Here's the deal. With most anything else, you get what you pay for. If you buy a $200 grill, you are getting a $200 grill. If you buy a $650 grill, you get that. With all the lower end grills that we carry, Wal-Mart, Lowes, etc, etc, the bells and whistles are what is put on them to make them "different" from the next cheap grill. While the inexpensive grill has its purpose, I always start a customer with a Weber and go from there. I have sold Weber grills for 15 years, have never taken one back as being defective and the only time I ever get a repeat customer is when they are replacing their 25 year old Weber. Weber grills are simple, you can go nuts and get into the Summit series and you see a lot more stainless steel. I have a Weber Genesis E-320, it has the side burner, but that is all we had at the time I bought it 5 years ago. Btw, my grill still looks brand new. Anyway, the Spirit grills are going away after this year and Weber is changing that line for next year. Not sure what the plan is as of now, but they have stopped making the Spirit.

As for care, that has a lot to do with the cheap grills lasting. If you cover them, keep them in a garage, etc, they will last a year or 2 longer, but the guage of stainless used in each is quite different. The burners in a Char-Broil are not as thick as Weber's. Probably the most impressive thing with Weber and a little what you pay for is their customer service. They are made in Wisconsin and if you need a part, you call a Wisconsin resident and they ship it to your house at no charge. With Char-Broil, you have to call them and usually you get to pay for the parts (at least in my experience)

My advice, both professionally and personaly, go with a Weber. You will pay more up front, but 10 years from now when your grill still works great and looks great, you will be more than happy with your decision.

[Bertogliat]

Ahh, grills. I love selling grills. Here's the deal. With most anything else, you get what you pay for. If you buy a $200 grill, you are getting a $200 grill. If you buy a $650 grill, you get that. With all the lower end grills that we carry, Wal-Mart, Lowes, etc, etc, the bells and whistles are what is put on them to make them "different" from the next cheap grill. While the inexpensive grill has its purpose, I always start a customer with a Weber and go from there. I have sold Weber grills for 15 years, have never taken one back as being defective and the only time I ever get a repeat customer is when they are replacing their 25 year old Weber. Weber grills are simple, you can go nuts and get into the Summit series and you see a lot more stainless steel. I have a Weber Genesis E-320, it has the side burner, but that is all we had at the time I bought it 5 years ago. Btw, my grill still looks brand new. Anyway, the Spirit grills are going away after this year and Weber is changing that line for next year. Not sure what the plan is as of now, but they have stopped making the Spirit.

As for care, that has a lot to do with the cheap grills lasting. If you cover them, keep them in a garage, etc, they will last a year or 2 longer, but the guage of stainless used in each is quite different. The burners in a Char-Broil are not as thick as Weber's. Probably the most impressive thing with Weber and a little what you pay for is their customer service. They are made in Wisconsin and if you need a part, you call a Wisconsin resident and they ship it to your house at no charge. With Char-Broil, you have to call them and usually you get to pay for the parts (at least in my experience)

My advice, both professionally and personaly, go with a Weber. You will pay more up front, but 10 years from now when your grill still works great and looks great, you will be more than happy with your decision.

I always thought the dials on top of the wing table were a complete waste of space. Where do you set your plate/tray?

[fightclub30]

Ahh, grills. I love selling grills. Here's the deal. With most anything else, you get what you pay for. If you buy a $200 grill, you are getting a $200 grill. If you buy a $650 grill, you get that. With all the lower end grills that we carry, Wal-Mart, Lowes, etc, etc, the bells and whistles are what is put on them to make them "different" from the next cheap grill. While the inexpensive grill has its purpose, I always start a customer with a Weber and go from there. I have sold Weber grills for 15 years, have never taken one back as being defective and the only time I ever get a repeat customer is when they are replacing their 25 year old Weber. Weber grills are simple, you can go nuts and get into the Summit series and you see a lot more stainless steel. I have a Weber Genesis E-320, it has the side burner, but that is all we had at the time I bought it 5 years ago. Btw, my grill still looks brand new. Anyway, the Spirit grills are going away after this year and Weber is changing that line for next year. Not sure what the plan is as of now, but they have stopped making the Spirit.

As for care, that has a lot to do with the cheap grills lasting. If you cover them, keep them in a garage, etc, they will last a year or 2 longer, but the guage of stainless used in each is quite different. The burners in a Char-Broil are not as thick as Weber's. Probably the most impressive thing with Weber and a little what you pay for is their customer service. They are made in Wisconsin and if you need a part, you call a Wisconsin resident and they ship it to your house at no charge. With Char-Broil, you have to call them and usually you get to pay for the parts (at least in my experience)

My advice, both professionally and personaly, go with a Weber. You will pay more up front, but 10 years from now when your grill still works great and looks great, you will be more than happy with your decision.

Okay, Thanks for the tips! Yes, in the store the 3-burner Weber felt a lot more solid at $499, than the $499 charbroil that had 5 burners, side burner, infra-red, etc. etc.

The Spirit is made in China, the Genesis is made in USA. The Spirit’s burners go horizontal, the Genesis go vertical. Genesis has front mounted knobs. These don’t make a $200 cost difference. I am assuming better gauge stainless is the likely culprit, along with made in USA. Is the extra $200 for the Genesis money well spent? I am leaning towards yes…

[WPoS]

Looking to purchase a propane/Natural Gas grill soon.

My buddies all go out and spend $200 on a charbroil, or the home depot special of the day and end up with a rusted out POS in short order. I really dont want to do that. My dad has a Weber Natural Gas grill, that has seen 7 winters and honestly looks 2, maybe 3 years old and still works great. The Cheap charbroils, within 3 months the starter has broken, a burner knob has fallen off, etc.

Is this more to do with how they take care of them (i.e. do other people have better luck with the cheaper models?) or is this a case of you get what you pay for?

I was looking at the Weber Spirit E-310. I dont need or want a side-burner, and I dont need 1.7 Million square inches of cooking surface, I dont need a rotiserie, or any other bells and whistles. I just want a good grill that can get hot enough to sear and will last 7-10 years if possible. It seemed like a simple, well built, reasonably priced grill, but will this just get rusted out in 2 years as well? I dont want to spend $1,200 on a grill, in fact I dont want to spend more than $600 (just cant justify more than that right now).

Also what is the debate on keeping them covered or not? I plan to probably not cover it during the summer, but bring it into the garage and cover it for the winter.

Any insights into this would help. Thanks guys.

I purchased a Kenmore grill in 2005 for about $350. At the time I was looking for a heavier, sturdier grill that looked like it could handle heavy use for 5+ years. I wanted 4 burners and a cermic coated grate to cook on. The grill has a side burner, which I only use in the summer and for saurkraut. It is a good looking grill and is still performing very nicely. No complaints. I recommend the electric starter over the push button. Mine still works well and I have yet to change the battery. Not sure how that is even possible....
Although the Kenmore name is not sexy, I have found that when comparing appliances, Kenmore consistently has equal or greater features and always a better price than their competitors. I always shop all brands yet I see I own a Kenmore water softener, dish washer, microwave, washer, dryer and grill.

Nearly all of my tools are craftsman, including the mower, snowblower and lawn vacuum. The table saws. Damn!

just had to do mine after 5 years...simple screw off ring and pop in a new battery

W

[cavedog]

I, and four other friends, each have the Viera series. Reliable, great picture, great value.

I joined the Viera club today - took advantage of $749.00 + free shipping for Panasonic VIERA TC-P50UT50 50-Inch 1080p Full HD 3D Plasma TV

[jallengarry]

I'd disagree with you on the the block vs GAC filters....GAC has WAY more surface area and is generally more preffered and efficient in water treatment applications. Block carbon filters do some particulate filtration that isn't really needed and causes them to plug up quicker than the useful life of the filter. Yes, I DO know SOMETHING about filtration...I designed water filtration systems and filters for 4+ years...

W

Hmmmm...that's interesting. I'm not sure if your talking about drinking water applications or not as I'm suppose there would be different product choices for different applications. I'm no expert of the topic for sure. However, in reading SEVERAL reviews...including from consumer reports if I recall correctly...I literally never saw an article or a video that said the GAC was a better choice...particularly as the first pre-filter. Everything said exactly the opposite. Many use GAC later down the flow line as Block wouldn't be needed there but all the higher end models I looked at used block upfront. I saw SEVERAL things that listed a number of advantages of block filters that were very appealing. And everything said block filtered way more contaminants (7 to 19 times the smaller particle), had MORE surface area, didn't channel like GAC, didn't allow bacterial growth like GAC, had higher flow rate at the same size, less carbon fines (filter dust), etc...

[WPoS]

aw for parise's sake...my whole post went poof when I hit a random button on my laptop that closed my browser.....

here we go again.

first off Consmer reports, is fine, but it's CONSUMER reports. Doesn't mean they REALLY know what they are talking about. I'd trust real world application data anyday over them. I worked for Osmonics for all those years. They are now owned by GE.

Block Carbon filters have the following issues:
HIGH pressure drop
used for the WRONG reason

Carbon is to remove color and odor, not particulates. Using a block carbon filter for particulate filtration is a cheat. Particulate filtration is best done using a depth filter and pleated filters. Block carbon filters will channel just like any other filter and in fact, due to their high pressure drop will channel MORE once one is formed. I NEVER tested a block carbon filter that was good at filtering and had a low pressure drop. So if you have low pressure drop you are channeling. Low pressure is adverse to the RO element's effectiveness.

At Osmo we designed water filtration for Coke, Pepsi, bottled water plants, and whole cites. A typical water filtration system for drinking water is the following:

Larger micron depth filter (20 micron) > GAC bed filter > smaller micron depth filter (1-5 micron) > pleated submicron filter > RO unit. You can toss a UV light in as well to take care of bacteria if you want prior to the pleated.

Sorry to tell you this, but ALL filters are breeding grounds for bugs, it's surface area, the more surface area, the more places for bugs to grow. So "larger surface area" block filters would be worse that GAC bed filters.

Just sayin...

now all this said and done, home RO units are a HUGE comprimize to having to fit under the sink and be affordable so they cheat and try to combine as much as they can in the filters and "sell" you the "features"...not how I'd make my own for my home if I still worked at Osmo and had access to all the goodies I used to.

W

[dxmnkd316]

Then I regularly do it wrong.

I always end up with hot spots, so if I cook 4 burgers, usually one ends up crispy. I have to coat the briquettes in lighter fluid to get them to start, and if I dont wait long enough I end up tasting the lighter fluid in my food. The flare-ups from flipping burgers and steaks makes me feel like I am sending smoke signals. I dont prefer the taste of charcoal to propane either way (neither one is much different to me). Just for the hassle of tryign to grill 2-3 nights a week, I'd rather have a gas grill.

When I do burgers, I usually use a combination of direct and indirect heat. When the charcoal is ready (nearly all white), I push it off to one side of the grill. I throw the burgers over the direct heat for a minute or so on each side with the cover closed. Then I move them to the far side of the grill equidistant from the coals. I let them cook about 4-5 minutes a side with the cover closed. The temperature I target is 400 degrees in the top center of the grill.

Regarding the lighter fluid aspect, that's the benefit of using the Weber Performer. It uses a Coleman lantern to start the briquettes (about five minutes) and then I turn it off and let the charcoal hit temperature on its own.

[Greyeagle]

I have a Viera TC-P50G25 and I love it enough to get the TC-P65GT50 this year. There are a number of websites you can look at that compare the specs for all of their series of TVs.

Have you seen the prices you can get on Sharp TVs via mother mining?

[dxmnkd316]

I have a Viera TC-P50G25 and I love it enough to get the TC-P65GT50 this year. There are a number of websites you can look at that compare the specs for all of their series of TVs.

Have you seen the prices you can get on Sharp TVs via mother mining?

I have. I'm just not an LCD fan. Good TVs, I just prefer plasma.

[Dances With Gophers]

My Sony Bravia literally went TU about 2 days after I read the latest posts in this thread. Purchased in 2006, and it only lasts 6 years?

[Greyeagle]

I have a Viera TC-P50G25 and I love it enough to get the TC-P65GT50 this year. There are a number of websites you can look at that compare the specs for all of their series of TVs.

Have you seen the prices you can get on Sharp TVs via mother mining?

I have. I'm just not an LCD fan. Good TVs, I just prefer plasma.

Figured you had but wanted to make sure.

[dxmnkd316]

My Sony Bravia literally went TU about 2 days after I read the latest posts in this thread. Purchased in 2006, and it only lasts 6 years?

Another of the converts to the "Sony Blows Goats" fanclub?

[Orion]

My Sony Bravia literally went TU about 2 days after I read the latest posts in this thread. Purchased in 2006, and it only lasts 6 years?

Another of the converts to the "Sony Blows Goats" fanclub?

But only proprietary goats that they created instead of a standardedized goat that everyone else uses and is much easier to blow

[dxmnkd316]

My Sony Bravia literally went TU about 2 days after I read the latest posts in this thread. Purchased in 2006, and it only lasts 6 years?

Another of the converts to the "Sony Blows Goats" fanclub?

But only proprietary goats that they created instead of a standardized goat that everyone else uses and is much easier to blow

Them and Dell.